Trade Idea: Kevin Martin?

[Mike-Dub]

Would do it in a heart-beat!

[BudweiserCeltic]

kevin m average and age?

i hate to say it but why wait to see if ray can  do his job?

24.6 PPG, 26 years old.

[Fafnir]

kevin m average and age?

i hate to say it but why wait to see if ray can  do his job?

24.6 PPG, 26 years old.

He's doing that with .605 true shooting, very good.

[Jon]

I'm not a big fan of the trade idea, but I figured I'd put up a thread in the trade idea forum.

Just saw this on realgm: 

http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/2039010.html

He is entering the third season of his five-year contract worth approximately $53 million, with the prospect of being traded more possible than before, if only because 17-win teams must be open to everything. Martin knows that much, but said he hopes to see the turnaround all the way through.

"You definitely want (the Kings' rebuilding) to speed up," he said. "You definitely don't want to be scoring 25 (points) for no reason. … But I've still got time. I definitely want to be part of this. I'm just along for the ride."

It's kinda true.  The Kings definitely have a lot of money dedicated to players who are playing for a pretty crappy team.

Kevin Martin:  10.1 mil (4 more years)
Andres Nocioni:  7.5 mil (4 more years)
Beno Udrih: 6 mil (4 more years)
Francisco Garcia: 5.8 mil (4 more years)

Isn't that kinda a lot of money to dedicate to one good player and 3 mediocre players?

If they were looking to dump salary would they do this?

Ray Allen: 19.7 mil expiring

for

Kevin Martin and Nocioni?

Something like that? 

Crazy?

Possible?

Unthinkable?

Don't do it.  

Here's why.

1) Allen is a better fit than Martin.  We know that Allen fits in.  We don't know if Martin will.  Will Martin be better than Allen in a couple years?  Maybe.  But will it matter if the C's didn't win a title the next two years and are mediocre after that?  No.  Plus, if we hold onto Ray a few more years, who is to say we couldn't fill what would be Martin's salary spot with an equal or better player via free agency in 2012?  

2) Nocioni is nice, but is he really that much better than Marquis Daniels?  Maybe.  But not enough to justify a deal to break up the Big Three.  

Doesn't make sense.  Especially since our depth problem is pretty much gone with the acquisitions of Wallace and Daniels.  

[timepiece33]

Currently we are in a position to sign Rondo and Allen for the amount that they currently make combined.  By adding Nocioni and Martin, we are no longer in that position.   Whether the ownership cares about that or not is another story altogether.  Personally, I believe we'd rather take Martin and not Nocioni if they can avoid it. 

[Fafnir]

Currently we are in a position to sign Rondo and Allen for the amount that they currently make combined.  By adding Nocioni and Martin, we are no longer in that position.   Whether the ownership cares about that or not is another story altogether.  Personally, I believe we'd rather take Martin and not Nocioni if they can avoid it. 

Of course we'd rather just get Martin straight up, but that would make the trade even more ridiculous.

I think trading Pierce for LeBron would be a good deal for the C's too, but its not going to happen.

[Truck Lewis]

the OP's deal would be done by the C's in a hearbeat, but makes no sense for Sactown

[timepiece33]

Nocioni is a terrible deal AND Martin is a max contract.  You'll be able to get a guy like him when space opens up after 2010/2011 if you act accordingly.   

[guava_wrench]

Ray for Martin and Nocioni?  We'd be crazy not to pull the trigger on that.

Think about it - you get a guy who can score anywhere on the floor, has the size to play SG and maybe a bit of SF, and can score at least 15 a game even if he can only score 25 a game on a crappy team.  What's more, that guy is 5-6 years younger than the guy you're trading away.  Not to mention he makes considerably less money.

On top of that, you get a backup small forward with size to defend that you desperately need.

As much as I love Ray, I'd do that trade in an instant.

That said, the Kings are stupid, but they're not so stupid and insane to trade away Martin and Nocioni for Ray Allen.

Anything is possible when teams are looking to dump salary. I feel like in the past few years, we actually gave up the most to attain a top level talent (in KG)...the Pau deal will go down in history, but there are a myriad of these types of deals over the years- like useless Big Ben for a still effective Shaq...

I agree that Allen is a great piece for this team, but attaining two pieces in KMart (part 2) and Nocioni would be wayyyyy too good to pass up. This would really set us up for the future...TP for the idea anyway- I'll be crossing my fingers.

Giving up Odom and Butler for Shaq was a lot of talent.

[Fafnir]

Ray for Martin and Nocioni?  We'd be crazy not to pull the trigger on that.

Think about it - you get a guy who can score anywhere on the floor, has the size to play SG and maybe a bit of SF, and can score at least 15 a game even if he can only score 25 a game on a crappy team.  What's more, that guy is 5-6 years younger than the guy you're trading away.  Not to mention he makes considerably less money.

On top of that, you get a backup small forward with size to defend that you desperately need.

As much as I love Ray, I'd do that trade in an instant.

That said, the Kings are stupid, but they're not so stupid and insane to trade away Martin and Nocioni for Ray Allen.

Anything is possible when teams are looking to dump salary. I feel like in the past few years, we actually gave up the most to attain a top level talent (in KG)...the Pau deal will go down in history, but there are a myriad of these types of deals over the years- like useless Big Ben for a still effective Shaq...

I agree that Allen is a great piece for this team, but attaining two pieces in KMart (part 2) and Nocioni would be wayyyyy too good to pass up. This would really set us up for the future...TP for the idea anyway- I'll be crossing my fingers.

Giving up Odom and Butler for Shaq was a lot of talent.

Yup, the Lakers make a huge mistake trading Tough Juice for Kwame. They got a very good package for Shaq.

Now the Pau Gasol and Richard Jefferson trades were straight salary dumps.

[Michael Anthony]

Sacramento might do this if they could dump Udrih on the Celtics, with Pruitt, Giddens and Walker going the other direction.

They would go forward into 2010-2011 with a core of Evans, Thompson, Hawes, a Top 5 pick, a bunch of young role players (Our guys, Greene, Casspi) and a payroll under $20 million.

Rondo-Udrih
Martin-House
Pierce-Daniels
Garnett-Nocioni
Perkings-Wallace

[MrTripleDouble10]

Kevin Martin?  No thanks.  He has missed over 50 games the past couple of seasons with ankle and other injuries.  6'7" and 185?  Never been impressed with his game and he plays ZERO defense.

[ssspence]

That is a tough call. I think you can't do it yet though. There is a trust between KG, Pierce, Ray, Sheed and management. They are all in this together because of each other's presence.

If Ray is traded, it could send a bad ripple through a tight locker room. I think after the 2 year window closes though, all bets are off.

But it would be freaking tempting to flip Ray for a young all star level replacement.

i think you're kidding yourself on this. danny will trade ray if it means a better chance at winning #18. I think I'd prefer this be Garcia and Martin, but either way it's pretty clearcut.

[Jon]

That is a tough call. I think you can't do it yet though. There is a trust between KG, Pierce, Ray, Sheed and management. They are all in this together because of each other's presence.

If Ray is traded, it could send a bad ripple through a tight locker room. I think after the 2 year window closes though, all bets are off.

But it would be freaking tempting to flip Ray for a young all star level replacement.

i think you're kidding yourself on this. danny will trade ray if it means a better chance at winning #18. I think I'd prefer this be Garcia and Martin, but either way it's pretty clearcut.

But I don't think a trade of Ray for Martin and change gives us a better chance at #18.  Part of Ray's value is his ability to score 20 points per game without requiring many shots or plays run for him.  Other stars likely couldn't coexist nearly as well with all the other stars around here. 

Furthermore, with Wallace and Daniels on board, the whole need for depth is out the window.  Come playoff time, House, Daniels, and Wallace should be able to cover 95% or more of the backup minutes we'll need.  So anyone that the Kings would throw in with Martin is really meaningless.

On top of all that, it's not like trading Ray is the only way we can get value for him.  If I'm Ainge, I re-sign Allen to a Nash-like deal this summer, let his contract expire in the summer of 2012 with Wallace and Garnett (and hopefully Pierce if he'll take a 1 year extension) and we can have tens of millions of dollars to sign young players to go around Perk and Rondo without playing with chemistry now. 

[Fafnir]

That is a tough call. I think you can't do it yet though. There is a trust between KG, Pierce, Ray, Sheed and management. They are all in this together because of each other's presence.

If Ray is traded, it could send a bad ripple through a tight locker room. I think after the 2 year window closes though, all bets are off.

But it would be freaking tempting to flip Ray for a young all star level replacement.

i think you're kidding yourself on this. danny will trade ray if it means a better chance at winning #18. I think I'd prefer this be Garcia and Martin, but either way it's pretty clearcut.

But I don't think a trade of Ray for Martin and change gives us a better chance at #18.  Part of Ray's value is his ability to score 20 points per game without requiring many shots or plays run for him.  Other stars likely couldn't coexist nearly as well with all the other stars around here. 

For his career Kevin Martin is a more efficient scorer than Ray. So why would he require more shots than Ray to score 20? Their usage is similar too.