Three way sign and trade idea Bos/Det/Mia (Moon and Davis)

[Birdbrain]

OK, so bear with me, I think I have figured out a 3-way sign and trade that lands Davis in Detroit, Moon in Boston, and leaves Miami without taking on salary.

This is making a couple assumptions.  First, from what I have heard, Detroit now has $3.6 million in cap space remaining.  That is of course crucial to this trade.

Also, I am assuming (probably mistakenly) that I understand how trades work with BYC players.  Essentially, the team trading the BYC player away can only count 50% of that players new salary in their outgoing salary, while the team receiving the player needs to count 100% of that salary.

So if either of these are not correct, then this deal falls apart, but if they are, then this may be somewhat realistic.

Boston sends Glen Davis (signed for $3.6 million) to Detroit, and Gabe Pruitt ($825,497 non-guaranteed salary, with an option on August 1st) to Miami.  They also send Cash to Detroit and Miami to grease the skids.  This means Boston has about $2.63 million in salary leaving (because of Davis' BYC status), and can take back about $3.38 million in salary (125% of 2.63 plus $100,000).  So Boston recieves Moon, signed to a deal starting at around $3.25 million.

Detroit sends out a heavily protected second round pick, and recieves Glen Davis and cash.

Miami sends out Moon, and receives Pruitt (who they can simply not pick up the option on), and Cash.

So Boston trades a 23 yr old Davis for 30 yr old Moon.  No thanks.

[Chris]

OK, so bear with me, I think I have figured out a 3-way sign and trade that lands Davis in Detroit, Moon in Boston, and leaves Miami without taking on salary.

This is making a couple assumptions.  First, from what I have heard, Detroit now has $3.6 million in cap space remaining.  That is of course crucial to this trade.

Also, I am assuming (probably mistakenly) that I understand how trades work with BYC players.  Essentially, the team trading the BYC player away can only count 50% of that players new salary in their outgoing salary, while the team receiving the player needs to count 100% of that salary.

So if either of these are not correct, then this deal falls apart, but if they are, then this may be somewhat realistic.

Boston sends Glen Davis (signed for $3.6 million) to Detroit, and Gabe Pruitt ($825,497 non-guaranteed salary, with an option on August 1st) to Miami.  They also send Cash to Detroit and Miami to grease the skids.  This means Boston has about $2.63 million in salary leaving (because of Davis' BYC status), and can take back about $3.38 million in salary (125% of 2.63 plus $100,000).  So Boston recieves Moon, signed to a deal starting at around $3.25 million.

Detroit sends out a heavily protected second round pick, and recieves Glen Davis and cash.

Miami sends out Moon, and receives Pruitt (who they can simply not pick up the option on), and Cash.

So Boston trades a 23 yr old Davis for 30 yr old Moon.  No thanks.

I prefer to look at it as they trade their 4th big man, who they very possibly will lose anyways, because they can't stomach paying $3.5+ million per year for a 4th big man, for a legit 3rd wing, who is an excellent defender, an a very good outside shooter.

And I don't see why their ages are relevant.  The C's are looking to win a championship right now.  And even after the big 3 are gone, Glenn Davis is not going to be one of your building blocks.  He is a roleplayer, and that is all he will ever be.  You don't pass up improving your team for that.

[teddykgb]

You still haven't explained why Miami is going to trade Jamario Moon for nothing while you think they still value him at at least the value of the LLE.  And don't try giving them 2nd rounders, that's still not giving them anything

$$$$$$

If a team is willing to give Miami cash, so they will broker a sign and trade to get a player more money than they are willing to pay him, they will likely jump at the opportunity (this also wins them points with agents, and players, who look at how a team does business).  I know this is counter-intuitive to a lot of fans, but those type of deals happen all the time in the NBA. 

And of course second round pick could be thrown in for their trouble as well...but likely wouldn't be necessary.  Miami walks out of this deal with more money, and all they had to give up was a guy they didn't really want to pay anyways, but likely would have, if he was forced to take an offer sheet for significantly less than he is really worth (which the LLE would be).

I'm just not buying it. The max the celtics could trade is 3 million I believe.  And we're over the luxury tax, so it's 3 mil plus Moon's 3 mil x 2...so you're talking about spending 9 million to get Jamario Moon?

And I still don't think it makes any sense for Miami...they trade a player who has some value to them and get back some cash and agent goodwill? Is that going to keep Dwayne Wade in Miami?  I think you're on the right track with a 3 way, of course, but 3 way trades come together when everyone gets something, usually the middle team gets the cap/money relief.  Miami isn't going to trade a tradeable asset just to get some small amount of cash and a tip of the cap to players and agents out there.  In fact, aside from our gifting Rasheed Wallace to Detroit, I think you'd be hard pressed to find many other examples like you say are out there.

[Mr October]

OK, so bear with me, I think I have figured out a 3-way sign and trade that lands Davis in Detroit, Moon in Boston, and leaves Miami without taking on salary.

This is making a couple assumptions.  First, from what I have heard, Detroit now has $3.6 million in cap space remaining.  That is of course crucial to this trade.

Also, I am assuming (probably mistakenly) that I understand how trades work with BYC players.  Essentially, the team trading the BYC player away can only count 50% of that players new salary in their outgoing salary, while the team receiving the player needs to count 100% of that salary.

So if either of these are not correct, then this deal falls apart, but if they are, then this may be somewhat realistic.

Boston sends Glen Davis (signed for $3.6 million) to Detroit, and Gabe Pruitt ($825,497 non-guaranteed salary, with an option on August 1st) to Miami.  They also send Cash to Detroit and Miami to grease the skids.  This means Boston has about $2.63 million in salary leaving (because of Davis' BYC status), and can take back about $3.38 million in salary (125% of 2.63 plus $100,000).  So Boston recieves Moon, signed to a deal starting at around $3.25 million.

Detroit sends out a heavily protected second round pick, and recieves Glen Davis and cash.

Miami sends out Moon, and receives Pruitt (who they can simply not pick up the option on), and Cash.

So Boston trades a 23 yr old Davis for 30 yr old Moon.  No thanks.

I prefer to look at it as they trade their 4th big man, who they very possibly will lose anyways, because they can't stomach paying $3.5+ million per year for a 4th big man, for a legit 3rd wing, who is an excellent defender, an a very good outside shooter.

And I don't see why their ages are relevant.  The C's are looking to win a championship right now.  And even after the big 3 are gone, Glenn Davis is not going to be one of your building blocks.  He is a roleplayer, and that is all he will ever be.  You don't pass up improving your team for that.

Agreed. Rondo and Perkins are the only young guys worth being labeled as building blocks for a new team.

[Chris]

You still haven't explained why Miami is going to trade Jamario Moon for nothing while you think they still value him at at least the value of the LLE.  And don't try giving them 2nd rounders, that's still not giving them anything

$$$$$$

If a team is willing to give Miami cash, so they will broker a sign and trade to get a player more money than they are willing to pay him, they will likely jump at the opportunity (this also wins them points with agents, and players, who look at how a team does business).  I know this is counter-intuitive to a lot of fans, but those type of deals happen all the time in the NBA. 

And of course second round pick could be thrown in for their trouble as well...but likely wouldn't be necessary.  Miami walks out of this deal with more money, and all they had to give up was a guy they didn't really want to pay anyways, but likely would have, if he was forced to take an offer sheet for significantly less than he is really worth (which the LLE would be).

I'm just not buying it. The max the celtics could trade is 3 million I believe.  And we're over the luxury tax, so it's 3 mil plus Moon's 3 mil x 2...so you're talking about spending 9 million to get Jamario Moon?

And I still don't think it makes any sense for Miami...they trade a player who has some value to them and get back some cash and agent goodwill? Is that going to keep Dwayne Wade in Miami?  I think you're on the right track with a 3 way, of course, but 3 way trades come together when everyone gets something, usually the middle team gets the cap/money relief.  Miami isn't going to trade a tradeable asset just to get some small amount of cash and a tip of the cap to players and agents out there.  In fact, aside from our gifting Rasheed Wallace to Detroit, I think you'd be hard pressed to find many other examples like you say are out there.

How about the Turkoglu trade?  Orlando got nothing but a trade exemption they likely will never use.

A similar situation happened with Al Harrington a couple of years ago.  

We got Dan Dickau in a very similar scenario.  

It also is not much different than O'Bryant and Cassell trades last year, which were all about cash changing hands.  

And of course there was the Antoine sign and trade to Miami, which was almost exactly like this one, just had many more moving pieces.

This is how the NBA works now.  All of the GMs work together to help each other get around the salary cap restrictions, in order to put a couple extra dollars in their bosses pockets.

Oh yeah, and I don't think it takes $3 million to make it happen.  If the C's threw $500,000-$1m the Heats way, there is a good chance they would go for it, since it is just money in their pockets.

[teddykgb]

Turkoglu was a player Orlando was definitely not going to resign and that trade exemption is huge...it could be used in other trades or even to get an expiring deal to write off of the cap later...it really isn't relevant in any way

Dickau...O'Bryant....Cassell....these are all players of little to no value for their current teams.  Moon has value to Miami both as a player and as a contract.  Those players were available because they weren't going to contribute and/or were too old and getting in the way of others on the depth chart, so they were given away as a straight salary dump.  I don't remember the harrington one, so I won't comment.

As I said, if you think Miami would match an LLE level contract for Moon, then you clearly think Miami views him differently from these types of players.  If they wanted to clear the salary as in most of the examples you mentioned, they could do that without making this trade by just letting him walk.  They can clear the salary very easily.  The only reason for them to trade him as opposed to that avenue is to get something in return, either a real amount of cap relief or a player they think they can use.  In your scenario, they're really not getting either.  Which is why everyone has them including someone like Jones in a deal, because now they can really clear cap money and they're giving up Moon to accomplish that, which is really how NBA trades are made nowadays.

[Cman]

I can understand why people want Moon in Boston.
I just haven't seen a compelling way to get him to Boston without giving up more than we get in return.

Time to consider Udoka or Stackhouse, or wings that might be available via trade.

[Fafnir]

I can understand why people want Moon in Boston.
I just haven't seen a compelling way to get him to Boston without giving up more than we get in return.

Time to consider Udoka or Stackhouse, or wings that might be available via trade.

I would be happy with Udoka.

[ssspence]

I can understand why people want Moon in Boston.
I just haven't seen a compelling way to get him to Boston without giving up more than we get in return.

Time to consider Udoka or Stackhouse, or wings that might be available via trade.

I would be happy with Udoka.

Assuming you're not going to give Stackhouse or Udoka the LLE (that is, they're vet min players), why not offer Moon the LLE and see what happens?

[Michael Anthony]

I think the real pause in activity right now is being caused by the Boozer sweapstakes. Miami is a player, so is Chicago. Detroit to a lesser extent.

Therefore, any team associated with those three, along with teams associated with teams associated with those three are holding their breath to see if a really great opportunity lands in their lap - e.g. Utah needs an additional $3M expiring contract to say yes, and are willing to give up CJ Miles for it.

[mgent]

from what i understand Boston is furious with Detriot for their ridiculous attempt to increase their players trade value with the floating of the rondo conversation. danny ainge and co are not going to help out joe dumars again.

If Danny is gonna let a grudge get in the way of making our team better then he shouldn't be our GM.  We're not trying to help out Detriot, we're trying to help us.

[Birdbrain]

OK, so bear with me, I think I have figured out a 3-way sign and trade that lands Davis in Detroit, Moon in Boston, and leaves Miami without taking on salary.

This is making a couple assumptions.  First, from what I have heard, Detroit now has $3.6 million in cap space remaining.  That is of course crucial to this trade.

Also, I am assuming (probably mistakenly) that I understand how trades work with BYC players.  Essentially, the team trading the BYC player away can only count 50% of that players new salary in their outgoing salary, while the team receiving the player needs to count 100% of that salary.

So if either of these are not correct, then this deal falls apart, but if they are, then this may be somewhat realistic.

Boston sends Glen Davis (signed for $3.6 million) to Detroit, and Gabe Pruitt ($825,497 non-guaranteed salary, with an option on August 1st) to Miami.  They also send Cash to Detroit and Miami to grease the skids.  This means Boston has about $2.63 million in salary leaving (because of Davis' BYC status), and can take back about $3.38 million in salary (125% of 2.63 plus $100,000).  So Boston recieves Moon, signed to a deal starting at around $3.25 million.

Detroit sends out a heavily protected second round pick, and recieves Glen Davis and cash.

Miami sends out Moon, and receives Pruitt (who they can simply not pick up the option on), and Cash.

So Boston trades a 23 yr old Davis for 30 yr old Moon.  No thanks.

I prefer to look at it as they trade their 4th big man, who they very possibly will lose anyways, because they can't stomach paying $3.5+ million per year for a 4th big man, for a legit 3rd wing, who is an excellent defender, an a very good outside shooter.

And I don't see why their ages are relevant.  The C's are looking to win a championship right now.  And even after the big 3 are gone, Glenn Davis is not going to be one of your building blocks.  He is a roleplayer, and that is all he will ever be.  You don't pass up improving your team for that.

You are undervaluing Davis.  Beyond that of course a player you drafted and is 7 years younger than some backup wing worth the LLE matters. 

[snively]

Very good idea Chris.  But wouldn't Jamario Moon also be a BYC in this scenario?  Wouldn't that complicate this scenario? EDIT: seems like you've addressed this in other threads.

[paintitgreen]

I'm okay with the idea of getting Moon instead of Baby, that in and of itself is fine. But we shouldn't be paying out a ton of cash in this deal. And most importantly, Detroit shouldn't be getting any money in this scenario. If anything, they should be giving money. They get to land a player they want at a price they want, something they can't do unless they do this trade. They get the biggest addition - a restricted free agent they want but probably can't afford. And they don't give up anything for him? Instead, they get cash? No way.

On our end, we're giving up comparable value for Moon, and we are going into the luxury tax, meaning we're already the team paying. Detroit should be putting up any additional assets (i.e., money and picks) Miami wants to make this happen.