Iverson - Best Thing that Didn't Happen to the Celts?

[byennie]

It still doesn't change my view of thinking Iverson can still ball. And I never heard a teammate say he was not a good teammate of player. Probably because they couldn't hold his jockstrap if it came down to it.

George Karl on coaching Allen Iverson vs. Chauncey Billups:

"There are less bad plays, more solid plays," Karl said. "I think the wasteful, cheap possessions that we used to have 10 to 15 a game, they don't exist very much anymore."

What always irked Karl was Iverson's inability to run the offense like a general. Arguably, Iverson shot too much, and like Karl said, Denver could outscore about half the teams in the NBA. But when it came to beating the elite teams, the Nuggets had too many questions with "The Answer" — about his shot selection, his dedication to defense and his ability/inability to trust his teammates.

"We have contested-shot charts, bad-shot charts and cheap defensive possessions," Karl said. "I would say that when A.I. was here, we had most games in the teens of contested, tough shots, sometimes in the 20s. And I don't think we've had a double-digit one since (Billups has) been here.

"I don't think there's any question coaching a team for many minutes, without a passing and point guard mentality, is frustrating for a coach. Sometimes I saw something, but I couldn't get it done on the court because I didn't have a playmaker out there."

[fairweatherfan]

Kind of an aside, but how far has AI's legacy fallen in the last few years?  This guy was one of the biggest stars in the league for a long time, and still is to some degree (popularity-wise).  Now, he's a free agent, surefire HOFer who's still relatively healthy, but is a free agent afterthought for most teams and it looks like only the Clippers will even give him the MLE.  He's gonna be maybe the most forgotten great player of his generation, and the sad thing is, the personality that drove him to play so hard is exactly what's hurting him now. 

[crownsy]

I agree with karl's assessment at this point in AI's career.

The thing that has hurt AI his entire career is that he isn't 30 pounds heavier and 3 inches taller.

He is/was a phenomenal SG trapped in a PG body  .

HE's still going to go down as one of the greats of his generation, but can you imagine if he was even ray allen's size with the mentality he has?

[Fafnir]

I agree with karl's assessment at this point in AI's career.

The thing that has hurt AI his entire career is that he isn't 30 pounds heavier and 3 inches taller.

He is/was a phenomenal SG trapped in a PG body  .

HE's still going to go down as one of the greats of his generation, but can you imagine if he was even ray allen's size with the mentality he has?

I don't know if his game would translate, his attack mentality relies on quickness and agility as much as anything.

But the talent he had was amazing, if he'd been taller a lot of things would have changed.

[KG_ended_Bias]

It still doesn't change my view of thinking Iverson can still ball. And I never heard a teammate say he was not a good teammate of player. Probably because they couldn't hold his jockstrap if it came down to it.

George Karl on coaching Allen Iverson vs. Chauncey Billups:

"There are less bad plays, more solid plays," Karl said. "I think the wasteful, cheap possessions that we used to have 10 to 15 a game, they don't exist very much anymore."

What always irked Karl was Iverson's inability to run the offense like a general. Arguably, Iverson shot too much, and like Karl said, Denver could outscore about half the teams in the NBA. But when it came to beating the elite teams, the Nuggets had too many questions with "The Answer" — about his shot selection, his dedication to defense and his ability/inability to trust his teammates.

"We have contested-shot charts, bad-shot charts and cheap defensive possessions," Karl said. "I would say that when A.I. was here, we had most games in the teens of contested, tough shots, sometimes in the 20s. And I don't think we've had a double-digit one since (Billups has) been here.

"I don't think there's any question coaching a team for many minutes, without a passing and point guard mentality, is frustrating for a coach. Sometimes I saw something, but I couldn't get it done on the court because I didn't have a playmaker out there."

Are you making out that AI was Denver's problem? Maybe Carmelo putting the drinks down after a couple DUI's might have helped out a bit? Also Carmelo shedding a few pounds & not staying out all night helped also? Donta Jones playing out of his mind defensively to earn a contract had something to do with it? What about Nene coming back from cancer and regaining his old form? Also maybe taking a fringe NBA player in Anthony Carter & inserting a real PG in Chauncey Billups had something to do with it? What about Chris Anderson providing them defense, energy & excitement? What about Kenyon Martin regaining some of that explosiveness which made him a number 1 pick after suffering serious injuries a year prior? Those are all the good things that Denver did not have a year before when Iverson was on the team. If you watch basketball & save the quotes you would understand this a little better. Iverson was not what was all wrong with Denver trust me!

[wdleehi]

It still doesn't change my view of thinking Iverson can still ball. And I never heard a teammate say he was not a good teammate of player. Probably because they couldn't hold his jockstrap if it came down to it.

George Karl on coaching Allen Iverson vs. Chauncey Billups:

"There are less bad plays, more solid plays," Karl said. "I think the wasteful, cheap possessions that we used to have 10 to 15 a game, they don't exist very much anymore."

What always irked Karl was Iverson's inability to run the offense like a general. Arguably, Iverson shot too much, and like Karl said, Denver could outscore about half the teams in the NBA. But when it came to beating the elite teams, the Nuggets had too many questions with "The Answer" — about his shot selection, his dedication to defense and his ability/inability to trust his teammates.

"We have contested-shot charts, bad-shot charts and cheap defensive possessions," Karl said. "I would say that when A.I. was here, we had most games in the teens of contested, tough shots, sometimes in the 20s. And I don't think we've had a double-digit one since (Billups has) been here.

"I don't think there's any question coaching a team for many minutes, without a passing and point guard mentality, is frustrating for a coach. Sometimes I saw something, but I couldn't get it done on the court because I didn't have a playmaker out there."

Are you making out that AI was Denver's problem? Maybe Carmelo putting the drinks down after a couple DUI's might have helped out a bit? Also Carmelo shedding a few pounds & not staying out all night helped also? Donta Jones playing out of his mind defensively to earn a contract had something to do with it? What about Nene coming back from cancer and regaining his old form? Also maybe taking a fringe NBA player in Anthony Carter & inserting a real PG in Chauncey Billups had something to do with it? What about Chris Anderson providing them defense, energy & excitement? What about Kenyon Martin regaining some of that explosiveness which made him a number 1 pick after suffering serious injuries a year prior? Those are all the good things that Denver did not have a year before when Iverson was on the team. If you watch basketball & save the quotes you would understand this a little better. Iverson was not what was all wrong with Denver trust me!

Yet when he left, other players suddenly get more touches, have great seasons, and the teams makes it to the West Finals.


Meanwhile he goes to a team that had been in the East finals year after year playing team ball.  Suddenly, there are chemistry issues and offensive production drops from key players. 



But it had nothing to do with AI.

[KG_ended_Bias]

Detroit was garbage with Chauncey on the team before the trade, had nothing to do with Iverson! When you are starting Kwame Brown at center, you have BIG problems. Chauncey was more motivated to play in front of his hometown fans than he was in Detroit at the end. He had gotten stale as did the whole team in Detroit. And that is why Dumars blew up the team.

[mgent]

I agree.
I think we would've definitely been a better team, not as bad as some people think we would've been.  AI is basically a more talented Eddie House, but not able to contribute from a bench position.  I would MUCH rather have a back-court with a guy like Rondo and a guy like Ray, than a guy like AI and ANYBODY else.  At this time in his declining career he would be much more popular if he just sucked it up and played off the bench.
I still maintain the position he wouldn't have "destroyed" our team.  Say if we would've still gotten Garnett and had AI rather than Ray we'd still be a top team (I doubt things would have ever gone down like that though).
As far as the Detroit/Denver thing, Iverson played his part in that but not NEARLY as much as Chauncey did.  The combination of Hamilton and Iverson was also a much bigger problem than AI himself.

[wdleehi]

Detroit was garbage with Chauncey on the team before the trade, had nothing to do with Iverson! When you are starting Kwame Brown at center, you have BIG problems. Chauncey was more motivated to play in front of his hometown fans than he was in Detroit at the end. He had gotten stale as did the whole team in Detroit. And that is why Dumars blew up the team.

They were 4-0 to start the season. 


They were 500 last year with AI not playing.  They were below 500 with AI playing. 

[Finkelskyhook]

Kind of an aside, but how far has AI's legacy fallen in the last few years?  This guy was one of the biggest stars in the league for a long time, and still is to some degree (popularity-wise).  Now, he's a free agent, surefire HOFer who's still relatively healthy, but is a free agent afterthought for most teams and it looks like only the Clippers will even give him the MLE.  He's gonna be maybe the most forgotten great player of his generation, and the sad thing is, the personality that drove him to play so hard is exactly what's hurting him now. 

Iverson would be stockless with any team that cared about winning. 

However, if a team is disinterested in winning but still hopeful of putting people who know nothing about basketball beyond the name on the back of the jersey, Iverson will inexplicably put people in arenas.

[wdleehi]

Kind of an aside, but how far has AI's legacy fallen in the last few years?  This guy was one of the biggest stars in the league for a long time, and still is to some degree (popularity-wise).  Now, he's a free agent, surefire HOFer who's still relatively healthy, but is a free agent afterthought for most teams and it looks like only the Clippers will even give him the MLE.  He's gonna be maybe the most forgotten great player of his generation, and the sad thing is, the personality that drove him to play so hard is exactly what's hurting him now. 

Iverson would be stockless with any team that cared about winning. 

However, if a team is disinterested in winning but still hopeful of putting people who know nothing about basketball beyond the name on the back of the jersey, Iverson will inexplicably put people in arenas.

Thus we hear Clippers and Griz.


Miami is going though the motions to keep their star happy.

[makaveli]

I never ever was close to being an AI fan and never will. He is an alibi player and that should really be his nick name. Anyone with me:
Allen "The Alibi" Iverson

[fairweatherfan]

Kind of an aside, but how far has AI's legacy fallen in the last few years?  This guy was one of the biggest stars in the league for a long time, and still is to some degree (popularity-wise).  Now, he's a free agent, surefire HOFer who's still relatively healthy, but is a free agent afterthought for most teams and it looks like only the Clippers will even give him the MLE.  He's gonna be maybe the most forgotten great player of his generation, and the sad thing is, the personality that drove him to play so hard is exactly what's hurting him now. 

Iverson would be stockless with any team that cared about winning. 

However, if a team is disinterested in winning but still hopeful of putting people who know nothing about basketball beyond the name on the back of the jersey, Iverson will inexplicably put people in arenas.

Hey, A.I. won for quite awhile, including a conference championship as the only superstar on his team - more than guys like T-Mac, Steve Nash, or any of the Big 3 individually can say.  As others have said, he was a great player who was capable of carrying a team built around him. 

But he was never quite good enough to carry such a team to a title, or to adapt his game once his skills started to decline.  I'm as down on A.I. being able to contribute to a good team these days as anyone, but that's personality and pride, not talent.  What I was saying was his prior accomplishments are being forgotten quickly now that the holes in his game have become enormous and he refuses to change his mindset to adjust.

[crownsy]

Detroit was garbage with Chauncey on the team before the trade, had nothing to do with Iverson!

now who's not being objective?

[crownsy]

I never ever was close to being an AI fan and never will. He is an alibi player and that should really be his nick name. Anyone with me:
Allen "The Alibi" Iverson

2001 disagree's, he was a hell of a ball player in his prime.

I understand not liking him, but people that want to act like he was always a loser on bad teams are just as guilty of revisionist history as those who want to forgive his shortcomings....he dragged an awful roster in philly deep into the playoffs on his back several years in his prime, including to the NBA finals.

but, as other's have mentioned, the attitude of "me against the world" that so defined his game  and made him a joy to watch back then is severely limiting his ability to accept his decline do to age, and evolve his game based around it.