Dumars Turned Down Prince-For-Boozer

[the_Bird]

Think he'd take Boozer for Rip Hamilton?  Rip usually plays the 2, where they've now got Gordon, and Price plays the 3 which isn't quite as crowded (assuming Charlie V mostly plays PF).  Rip just signed that extension last year.  You could have a lineup of:

Stuckey
Gordon
Prince
Charlie V
Boozer

That would be a VERY small lineup, but probably their best.  Price, at least, gives them some length at the 3 spot.

[ToppersBsktball10]

Prince had a horrible season last year. Even though I'm not a fan of Boozer, stupid move to turn this down.

[GKC]

Think he'd take Boozer for Rip Hamilton?  Rip usually plays the 2, where they've now got Gordon, and Price plays the 3 which isn't quite as crowded (assuming Charlie V mostly plays PF).  Rip just signed that extension last year.  You could have a lineup of:

Stuckey
Gordon
Prince
Charlie V
Boozer

That would be a VERY small lineup, but probably their best.  Price, at least, gives them some length at the 3 spot.

This lineup would be absolutely shredded with a offensive center.

[JSD]

I think it's more of a hardball effort since Dumars would much rather give up Hamilton and is still trying to force Hamilton for Boozer first.

it better be... or Dumars might be entering Chris Wallace territory (Darko draft, Billups dump, etc.)

I just thought of something.

I'm not sure I trade either player for a one year rental of Boozer. If Boozer refused to sign an extension then I wouldn't do the trade. I don't think if he left it'd clear enough salary to sign a high level player if they just traded Prince for him.

Sorry, even without the extension I take my chances. Hell, worst case scenario: $12 million more to spend next summer.

Tayshaun makes 11 million in 2010-2011, but with the contracts of Gordon/Charlie V it is not straigh forward. They woulnd't get the full 12 million to spend. Plus if they spend any of their remaining cap room, say get a SF, then Boozer leaving would give them even less cap room.

Actually,  it is straight forward. According shamsports and hoopshype, The Pistons are currently under or at the cap. That means a $12 million expiring can be used on the open market next summer for that exact amount (and more when you include other expiring or cap room). Also, Charlie V. will start at the 3 (SF).


39,000,000 +
17,000,000 (Charlie and Gordon)
---------------------------------------------
$56 Million


http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/pistons.jsp
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/detroit.htm

No its not, they'd need to sign another SF. Also the cap is projected to drop 5 to 7 million dollars. That'd eliminate most of the cap room they'd get if Boozer left them.

Charlie V. can play both the SF and PF spots effectively. Even if the cap drops, The Pistons have Oberto and Kwame coming off the books to counter act that amount. The Pistons would have that cap room.

Also, with no MLE or LLE how do you propose the Pistons would sign anyone this summer let alone a cap affecting SF?

[Fafnir]

Think he'd take Boozer for Rip Hamilton?  Rip usually plays the 2, where they've now got Gordon, and Price plays the 3 which isn't quite as crowded (assuming Charlie V mostly plays PF).  Rip just signed that extension last year.  You could have a lineup of:

Stuckey
Gordon
Prince
Charlie V
Boozer

That would be a VERY small lineup, but probably their best.  Price, at least, gives them some length at the 3 spot.

This lineup would be absolutely shredded with a offensive center.

Not a ton of those out there. But yes they'd need to find a center.

[Prof. Clutch]

hmmm, Mr. Dumars may look back at this someday and regret this decision.  (Although I guess a few of him moves are probably still haunting him.  Maybe not, I guess you have to have short memory to be involved in these ultra competitive sports.)

Well, from a purely "who gets the more talented player" look at trades, Joe would have made out big time in this one.  But if you factor in that Boozer has had a history of being very aggressive about making out the best he can with contracts, you have to fear he wouldn't resign after this year.

Overall, Detroit is filled with talented players, but their team is still a mess.  I don't know how it will all mix together, and they are under more pressure to deal rip than any other team is to take him on.  So I don't exactly know how that's going to work out.  I probably would have done this trade in a heartbeat.

[the_Bird]

Think he'd take Boozer for Rip Hamilton?  Rip usually plays the 2, where they've now got Gordon, and Price plays the 3 which isn't quite as crowded (assuming Charlie V mostly plays PF).  Rip just signed that extension last year.  You could have a lineup of:

Stuckey
Gordon
Prince
Charlie V
Boozer

That would be a VERY small lineup, but probably their best.  Price, at least, gives them some length at the 3 spot.

This lineup would be absolutely shredded with a offensive center.

How's that different from how they're currently constructed?  Whether they trade Price or Rip for Boozer or not, they either need Maxiel to make the leap and become a legit starting C, or they need to pursue their other options. 

What's their lineup look like if the season started today?  Is Charlie V playing center?  Is Rip Hamilton coming off the bench (he LOVED that last year...  ).  Is Ben Gordon coming off the bench, after Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing and complaining about that for years in Chicago?  Is McDyess really going to come back to this mess? 

Trading for Boozer gives them size at the PF spot, at least.  I don't like Charlie V, but I think he'd be a great third big man behind Boozer and whatever legit center they can find; I DON'T like him as a starter, he just doesn't rebound or play enough D.  It doesn't solve all of their issues - they still need a center and they need to know if Stuckey really CAN handle the point - but it would take alleviate the logjam at the wings (Gordon/Prince/Rip/maybe Stuckey) and much improve their frontcourt. 

To me, it's a no-brainer.

[Fafnir]

I think it's more of a hardball effort since Dumars would much rather give up Hamilton and is still trying to force Hamilton for Boozer first.

it better be... or Dumars might be entering Chris Wallace territory (Darko draft, Billups dump, etc.)

I just thought of something.

I'm not sure I trade either player for a one year rental of Boozer. If Boozer refused to sign an extension then I wouldn't do the trade. I don't think if he left it'd clear enough salary to sign a high level player if they just traded Prince for him.

Sorry, even without the extension I take my chances. Hell, worst case scenario: $12 million more to spend next summer.

Tayshaun makes 11 million in 2010-2011, but with the contracts of Gordon/Charlie V it is not straigh forward. They woulnd't get the full 12 million to spend. Plus if they spend any of their remaining cap room, say get a SF, then Boozer leaving would give them even less cap room.

Actually,  it is straight forward. According shamsports and hoopshype, The Pistons are currently under or at the cap. That means a $12 million expiring can be used on the open market next summer for that exact amount (and more when you include other expiring or cap room). Also, Charlie V. will start at the 3 (SF).


39,000,000 +
17,000,000 (Charlie and Gordon)
---------------------------------------------
$56 Million


http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/pistons.jsp
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/detroit.htm

No its not, they'd need to sign another SF. Also the cap is projected to drop 5 to 7 million dollars. That'd eliminate most of the cap room they'd get if Boozer left them.

Charlie V. can play both the SF and PF spots effectively. Even if the cap drops, The Pistons have Oberto and Kwame coming off the books to counter act that amount. The Pistons would have that cap room.

Also, with no MLE or LLE how do you propose the Pistons would sign anyone this summer let alone a cap affecting SF?

They have an additional 3.5 in cap room this year according to a yahoo sports story I saw linked here earlier.

I disagree about Charlie V being an effective SF, he can't guard SFs at all.

I still don't think that you give up Prince for a rental of Boozer and cap room in a year when plenty of other teams have set themselves up to have tons of room to compete with you. The Pistons won't have as much as those other teams.

[GKC]

Think he'd take Boozer for Rip Hamilton?  Rip usually plays the 2, where they've now got Gordon, and Price plays the 3 which isn't quite as crowded (assuming Charlie V mostly plays PF).  Rip just signed that extension last year.  You could have a lineup of:

Stuckey
Gordon
Prince
Charlie V
Boozer

That would be a VERY small lineup, but probably their best.  Price, at least, gives them some length at the 3 spot.

This lineup would be absolutely shredded with a offensive center.

How's that different from how they're currently constructed?  Whether they trade Price or Rip for Boozer or not, they either need Maxiel to make the leap and become a legit starting C, or they need to pursue their other options. 

What's their lineup look like if the season started today?  Is Charlie V playing center?  Is Rip Hamilton coming off the bench (he LOVED that last year...  ).  Is Ben Gordon coming off the bench, after ****ing and complaining about that for years in Chicago?  Is McDyess really going to come back to this mess? 

Trading for Boozer gives them size at the PF spot, at least.  I don't like Charlie V, but I think he'd be a great third big man behind Boozer and whatever legit center they can find; I DON'T like him as a starter, he just doesn't rebound or play enough D.  It doesn't solve all of their issues - they still need a center and they need to know if Stuckey really CAN handle the point - but it would take alleviate the logjam at the wings (Gordon/Prince/Rip/maybe Stuckey) and much improve their frontcourt. 

To me, it's a no-brainer.

I don't think it solves any problems and creates a hole at SF anyway. Sure, pound for pound Boozer > Prince. But you don't trade for a PF (and undersized one at that) when you need a C.

As presently constructed? Trade for a C! It's not like Boozer is the only option of what they can do.

[byennie]

I gotta figure the problem here is that Boozer is going to expire, the Pistons won't be a contender this year, and then he'll almost certainly be gone. Prince is still signed for another year, and is a little more affordable. He's also a popular player, good teammate, strong defender, pretty much everything Boozer isn't even though he'll never be a 20/10 guy.

Me thinks Boozer's value is dropping every year. Between his Cleveland fiasco, Utah wanting to unload him, his lousy playoff numbers, injury prone, lack of defense... there's always a market for legitimate 20/10 skills, but he might not be tops in that group. Detroit can be patient, and doesn't need to jump at this deal.

[the_Bird]

Gentlemen, I think I might have figured it out.

A simple, three-player, three-team trade.

Boozer goes to New Orleans. 
Chandler goes to Detroit.
Rip goes to Utah.

New Orleans saves a year of salary, while still giving them an All-Star caliber big man to play with CP3.

Utah gets Rip Hamilton, who I personally think would be phenomenal playing under Jerry Sloan.  I REALLY want to see that happen.

Detroit can split Maxiel and Charlie V at the PF spot, and play Chandler at the 5 with Kwame as his backup.  I don't particularly LIKE that frontcourt, but it's a huge improvement from what they have now.  They won't have to pretend that Charle V can play C, and they won't have to give Kwame more than 15 minutes a night. 

RealGM says the trade works without anyone else needing to be kicked in.

[GKC]

Gentlemen, I think I might have figured it out.

A simple, three-player, three-team trade.

Boozer goes to New Orleans. 
Chandler goes to Detroit.
Rip goes to Utah.

New Orleans saves a year of salary, while still giving them an All-Star caliber big man to play with CP3.

Utah gets Rip Hamilton, who I personally think would be phenomenal playing under Jerry Sloan.  I REALLY want to see that happen.

Detroit can split Maxiel and Charlie V at the PF spot, and play Chandler at the 5 with Kwame as his backup.  I don't particularly LIKE that frontcourt, but it's a huge improvement from what they have now.  They won't have to pretend that Charle V can play C, and they won't have to give Kwame more than 15 minutes a night. 

RealGM says the trade works without anyone else needing to be kicked in.

Besides financially, why would the Hornets do this? Boozer is a better inside finisher than West, and a slightly better rebounder, but they both have the same style of play. You'd think the Hornets would want a shot blocker, and now you swap that for a non-center who isn't athletic to run the running alley-oop pick and roll with CP3?

[Fafnir]

Gentlemen, I think I might have figured it out.

A simple, three-player, three-team trade.

Boozer goes to New Orleans. 
Chandler goes to Detroit.
Rip goes to Utah.

New Orleans saves a year of salary, while still giving them an All-Star caliber big man to play with CP3.

Utah gets Rip Hamilton, who I personally think would be phenomenal playing under Jerry Sloan.  I REALLY want to see that happen.

Detroit can split Maxiel and Charlie V at the PF spot, and play Chandler at the 5 with Kwame as his backup.  I don't particularly LIKE that frontcourt, but it's a huge improvement from what they have now.  They won't have to pretend that Charle V can play C, and they won't have to give Kwame more than 15 minutes a night. 

RealGM says the trade works without anyone else needing to be kicked in.

What happens to David West?

Also I don't think Detroit would want Chandler's contract, he's not worth it when he is so injured.

[the_Bird]

Gentlemen, I think I might have figured it out.

A simple, three-player, three-team trade.

Boozer goes to New Orleans. 
Chandler goes to Detroit.
Rip goes to Utah.

New Orleans saves a year of salary, while still giving them an All-Star caliber big man to play with CP3.

Utah gets Rip Hamilton, who I personally think would be phenomenal playing under Jerry Sloan.  I REALLY want to see that happen.

Detroit can split Maxiel and Charlie V at the PF spot, and play Chandler at the 5 with Kwame as his backup.  I don't particularly LIKE that frontcourt, but it's a huge improvement from what they have now.  They won't have to pretend that Charle V can play C, and they won't have to give Kwame more than 15 minutes a night. 

RealGM says the trade works without anyone else needing to be kicked in.

Besides financially, why would the Hornets do this? Boozer is a better inside finisher than West, and a slightly better rebounder, but they both have the same style of play. You'd think the Hornets would want a shot blocker, and now you swap that for a non-center who isn't athletic to run the running alley-oop pick and roll with CP3?

Financially IS the key; there aren't too many teams in the league more desperate to shed salary than New Orlean.  They already tried to give him away once.  I'm assuming that they'd play Boozer as an undersized C.  Is it ideal from a basketball perspective?  Of course not - but when the plan last year was to trade Tyson Chandler and basically get back Joe Freakin' Smith, I think you have a sense of how badly they want to save $$.

[JSD]

They have an additional 3.5 in cap room this year according to a yahoo sports story I saw linked here earlier.

I haven't seen that anywhere but regardless, 3.5 Million is enough to sign a Matt Barnes type to a 1-year deal.

I disagree about Charlie V being an effective SF, he can't guard SFs at all.

Charlie V is perimeter oriented and can play both forward positions. I thought Hoopshype had a fair scouting report on him:

"Can play multiple positions... Runs the floor well... Lots of talent... Good passing and scoring skills... Must improve intensity and concentration... Not a great defender or rebounder."

I still don't think that you give up Prince for a rental of Boozer and cap room in a year when plenty of other teams have set themselves up to have tons of room to compete with you. The Pistons won't have as much as those other teams.

The Pistons will have Boozer's "bird-rights" and the ability to sign a major FA. Prince for Boozer is a no brainer IMO and I pull the trigger on this move every time.



http://hoopshype.com/players/charlie_villanueva.htm