2009 Celticsblog Draft: Draft Thread

[Gomesfan]

I offered you trades that included thompson as well as ai and others along with the previous mention players too

No you said, and I quote "I'm not going to trade the only good big man I have if I don't get Biedrins" because I offered you Jackson and Felton and Arthur as a starting offer Calderon and Thompson. I never once asked for Granger. I have pretty much two Grangers on my team now in Jackson and Martin.

And again, good luck trying to unload AI and McGrady.

we have been negotiating for days. I am talking about the first time I proposed it to you in the chat IM. at least a day or two ago

[Gomesfan]

It's probably best to keep the details of trade negotiations out of the public eye, anyway.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  That applies to a lot of things, including NBA basketball players.

I erased the posts that mentioned names of players offered/

[Roy Hobbs]

Thanks, GF.  It probably helps keep the peace.

[nickagneta]

Can I ask a question, why when someone offers others an offer that they feel is too low  do people get insulted. It's business. Say no or make a counter offer. No need to get grumpy about it. Like Roy said, all value is subjective and needs to be put in contrast.

Gomes, you obviously feel that Thompson and Calderon are gold quality players. I see them as silver. Others might see them as platinum or iron. I wasn't trying to insult you just trying to start a negotiation. I thought what I offered was more than fair. No need for histrionics. Say no and politely move on or counter.

IP and I had an hour long negotiation in our trade that started out quite differently from the original perspective offers.

I don't get it, am I doing something wrong? Gomes is the third guy to get uppity about an offer or two I made him. If I am someone tell me. I didn't know I was supposed to offer my best offer as my first offer and then do everything I could to stop from getting my life savings taken away from me too.

[The Walker Wiggle]

My little birdies tell me you've been knocking Portland's team even outside their earshot. 

Loose lips sink ships...  and display a petty agenda.

Aw, what? That stinks. It's absolutely true that I'm not as high on Portland as Portland is, and I've said as much on occasion in the chat and through PMs. But your team is hardly the only one I've privately discussed and privately knocked.

I was under the impression that there was a lot of back room chatter and criticism going on, at least at far as teams, trades and picks were concerned. Maybe not. Either way, I don't believe I've done anything untoward. And I never once said the first thing unflattering about you personally, let alone Edgar. I invite whoever it is that's been reporting back to you to come forward and say otherwise.

Anyway, given that you feel I've been off base, I would've much rather you had reached out to me privately, and earlier. I also would've much preferred this third party had called me out in the course of our conversation.

 "Petty" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I thought I'd earned a little more good will than that.

Anyway, I'm going to step back, although not out. I do invite anyone that agrees with Roy to get in touch with me. I don't like the idea that others are quietly grinding their teeth too. If it does turn out that I need to take a harder look at my behavior I'm willing to do that.

And to those that could care less either way, I'm sorry to have gone on at length. But hey the thread is already 300 pages long.

[indeedproceed]

IP and I had an hour long negotiation in our trade that started out quite differently from the original perspective offers.

This is true.

Also as Roy said, people value players on different levels. I valued Pryzbilla very high because I've looked at his numbers ad nausem and think he's better than his average game stats.

Someone else could see the same numbers and still think "He's a glorified backup center"

Unrelated note: My team is really really white. Am I the only one just noticing this?

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't get it, am I doing something wrong?

Without discussing other posters, here's my perspective on deal-making:  I think it's important to start with a semi-realistic offer.  It doesn't have to be your best offer, but it needs to be within the realm of reality.  When somebody gets low-balled, a lot of times they're going to be 1) angry, 2) insulted, and/or 3) dismissive. 

I've seen a lot of settlements (in real life) that either collapsed or were on the brink of collapse because a client felt insulted by somebody's negotiating style.

[Gomesfan]

Again , Mod can remove this! Thanks

[nickagneta]

n

[ChampKind]

Can I ask a question, why when someone offers others an offer that they feel is too low  do people get insulted. It's business. Say no or make a counter offer. No need to get grumpy about it. Like Roy said, all value is subjective and needs to be put in contrast.

Gomes, you obviously feel that Thompson and Calderon are gold quality players. I see them as silver. Others might see them as platinum or iron. I wasn't trying to insult you just trying to start a negotiation. I thought what I offered was more than fair. No need for histrionics. Say no and politely move on or counter.

IP and I had an hour long negotiation in our trade that started out quite differently from the original perspective offers.

I don't get it, am I doing something wrong? Gomes is the third guy to get uppity about an offer or two I made him. If I am someone tell me. I didn't know I was supposed to offer my best offer as my first offer and then do everything I could to stop from getting my life savings taken away from me too.

again we where aked not to list players so I went back and edited my posts!!! I dont consoder Jackson gold either or Felton for that matter

Neither do I hence why I thought it fair.

You two really need to keep this discussion in private PMs.  Otherwise, your sexual tension is distracting all of us.  Either make a trade or start making out already.

[nickagneta]

I don't get it, am I doing something wrong?

Without discussing other posters, here's my perspective on deal-making:  I think it's important to start with a semi-realistic offer.  It doesn't have to be your best offer, but it needs to be within the realm of reality.  When somebody gets low-balled, a lot of times they're going to 1) angry, 2) insulted, and/or 3) dismissive. 

I've seen a lot of settlements (in real life) that either collapsed or were on the brink of collapse because a client felt insulted by somebody's negotiating style.

But then again what's perceived as semi fair value for one person might seem ludicrous to another, especially in a game based solely on subjectivity.

Talking just draft picks, some people felt that a first rounder was equal to two second rounders. Other went by the old    round=(round -1)+(round-2). But I think that fluctuates depending on where in the round the pick is and how far down the draft you are. I just don't see that that a 13th and a 14th equal a 12th. or a 9th and a 10th equal an eighth. Call me crazy but an eight round talent isn't so good that he outweighs in value the value you get in a 9th and 10th rounder. I'm more of a mind that an 8th rounder is probably equal to a 9th and an 11 or 12th. I am in the severe minority here but I think I am right if you were to transfer this to real life is they did such things.

Look at that formula that the NFL uses for gauging value of draft picks. There's no way in the NFL draft you will get a 3rd and 4th rounder for a 2nd rounder or a sixth and seventh for a fifth. Laws of diminishing returns and such.

Anyway, my rant is over.

[indeedproceed]

As former acting commissioner of the Celticsblog Fake Draft, I would say enough of the back and forth over what you think are bad trade offers. The most awesome thing about a bad trade offer is you can take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no."

[bucknersrevenge]

Can I ask a question, why when someone offers others an offer that they feel is too low  do people get insulted. It's business. Say no or make a counter offer. No need to get grumpy about it. Like Roy said, all value is subjective and needs to be put in contrast.

Gomes, you obviously feel that Thompson and Calderon are gold quality players. I see them as silver. Others might see them as platinum or iron. I wasn't trying to insult you just trying to start a negotiation. I thought what I offered was more than fair. No need for histrionics. Say no and politely move on or counter.

IP and I had an hour long negotiation in our trade that started out quite differently from the original perspective offers.

I don't get it, am I doing something wrong? Gomes is the third guy to get uppity about an offer or two I made him. If I am someone tell me. I didn't know I was supposed to offer my best offer as my first offer and then do everything I could to stop from getting my life savings taken away from me too.

again we where aked not to list players so I went back and edited my posts!!! I dont consoder Jackson gold either or Felton for that matter

Neither do I hence why I thought it fair.

You two really need to keep this discussion in private PMs.  Otherwise, your sexual tension is distracting all of us.  Either make a trade or start making out already.

  LOL TP for the post of the day right here.

[nickagneta]

As former acting commissioner of the Celticsblog Fake Draft, I would say enough of the back and forth over what you think are bad trade offers. The most awesome thing about a bad trade offer is you can take Nancy Reagan's advice and "Just say no."

Thank you. Exactly

[nickagneta]

Can I ask a question, why when someone offers others an offer that they feel is too low  do people get insulted. It's business. Say no or make a counter offer. No need to get grumpy about it. Like Roy said, all value is subjective and needs to be put in contrast.

Gomes, you obviously feel that Thompson and Calderon are gold quality players. I see them as silver. Others might see them as platinum or iron. I wasn't trying to insult you just trying to start a negotiation. I thought what I offered was more than fair. No need for histrionics. Say no and politely move on or counter.

IP and I had an hour long negotiation in our trade that started out quite differently from the original perspective offers.

I don't get it, am I doing something wrong? Gomes is the third guy to get uppity about an offer or two I made him. If I am someone tell me. I didn't know I was supposed to offer my best offer as my first offer and then do everything I could to stop from getting my life savings taken away from me too.

again we where aked not to list players so I went back and edited my posts!!! I dont consoder Jackson gold either or Felton for that matter

Neither do I hence why I thought it fair.

You two really need to keep this discussion in private PMs.  Otherwise, your sexual tension is distracting all of us.  Either make a trade or start making out already.

Yeah we tried doing the trade thing and that didn't work so well. Making out might only make things worse at this point.

Very funny!! Good stuff!!