Author Topic: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?  (Read 4775 times)

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Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2009, 02:47:48 PM »

Offline the_Bird

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I don't think there's any question that Orlando's been the worst this off-season; the question is, how far have they fallen?  How far can a Dwight/VC/Jameer combination go, given that they have virtually nothing for a bench and very, very little size?  Looks like potentially a one-and-done playoff team to me, I don't see them as being part of the League's elite anymore.

Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2009, 02:50:19 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I don't think there's any question that Orlando's been the worst this off-season; the question is, how far have they fallen?  How far can a Dwight/VC/Jameer combination go, given that they have virtually nothing for a bench and very, very little size?  Looks like potentially a one-and-done playoff team to me, I don't see them as being part of the League's elite anymore.

You forgot Lewis.

Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2009, 03:10:56 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Orlando.

They lost Hedu, Lee, Battie, and potentially Gortat, and only got back Vince (who isn't as good as Hedu, in my opinion).

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Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2009, 03:14:23 PM »

Offline the_Bird

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I don't think there's any question that Orlando's been the worst this off-season; the question is, how far have they fallen?  How far can a Dwight/VC/Jameer combination go, given that they have virtually nothing for a bench and very, very little size?  Looks like potentially a one-and-done playoff team to me, I don't see them as being part of the League's elite anymore.

You forgot Lewis.

You're right, I did.  Second-round, then, still not an elite squad IMHO. 

Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2009, 03:15:32 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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Interesting that Chad Ford ranked LA by far the last among the 5 teams. In fact, he has them 23rd among all 30 teams. What's really curious, to me, is that he has the Rockets 24th. And the moves by those teams are just mirrors of each other. He thinks LA made a mistake in going for Artest over Ariza ("I know Artest is a talent, but he's unreliable. Why the Lakers would pass the torch from Ariza, who was just coming into his own, to Artest is a risk I just don't understand. And if somehow Odom decides to bolt for a team like Cleveland for the midlevel exception, the Lakers will have taken a big step backward") but he also doesn't see Houston's point ("And so far the best the Rockets have been able to do is sign Ariza. While he's a talented, athletic wing who in the long run will be an upgrade over Artest, in the short run it's not clear exactly how he'll fit. Put all that together and it looks like the Rockets could be a team in free fall in the West next season"). I guess, though, he factored losing Yao into Houston's offseason, a bit unfair if you're just grading moves.

His rankings of the relevant teams:
1. San Antonio
5. Boston
6. Orlando (he really likes swapping out Turkoglu for Carter, and makes no real mention of Lee or Alston, though he does say his ranking would drop if they lose Gortat who he lists as "in limbo" but calls a "key addition" to Dallas elsewhere)
8. Cleveland
23. Los Angeles

What really bothers me, though, is that he says the Pistons had the third best offseason. Really? Paying a guy who will never be an effective starter $50 mil for 5 years and another guy who hasn't shown he'll be an effective player $40 mil over 5 years is a great offseason? When neither of them fills your two biggest positions of need - power forward and center?

Could you quote that article for me?  I can't read it because I'm not an insider and I'd love to read it.
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Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2009, 03:28:00 PM »

Offline Mike-Dub

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Obviously Orlando... They lost Hedo, Courtney Lee, and Gotat.  They got back Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson but like people say if it aint broke don't fix it.
"It's all about having the heart of a champion." - #34 Paul Pierce

Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2009, 03:40:40 PM »

Offline amenhotep04

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'So far' is the key.  I'd have to agree with most and say Orlando. I do think think that Ryan Anderson can play, but he's probably not there quite yet.  I think Carter will have a great season however since he won't be the focus of the opposing defense.

I'd put Cleveland pretty close to Orlando however.  I don't see them as better this year.  Shaq will upset the chemistry on the team.  They'll still be formidable, but they cannot play any better than they did. 

The Cs still have some work to do, but they are only adding depth, not tweaking their starting line-up.

Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2009, 03:49:17 PM »

Offline Hoops

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Orlando.

Hedu for VC was basically a wash, assuming VC plays hard every night. Like others, I prefer Hedu myself.

Losing Gortat would be a problem for their frontcourt depth.

A couple people have sort of mentioned it, but I think the BIGGEST issue is losing Lee. He was the glue guy on offense in the playoffs (made few mistakes, hit clutch shots, help hold things together when they were on the verge of falling apart). Plus, he was easily their best perimeter defender. And all that playoff production came from a rookie that broke his face in the 1st round. He impressed me greatly. He may never be a star, but he's the type of a guy that a team needs to win a title. Big, big loss for Orlando, in my opinion.

Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2009, 04:19:49 PM »

Offline the_Bird

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A couple people have sort of mentioned it, but I think the BIGGEST issue is losing Lee. He was the glue guy on offense in the playoffs (made few mistakes, hit clutch shots, help hold things together when they were on the verge of falling apart). Plus, he was easily their best perimeter defender. And all that playoff production came from a rookie that broke his face in the 1st round. He impressed me greatly. He may never be a star, but he's the type of a guy that a team needs to win a title. Big, big loss for Orlando, in my opinion.

I'm not sure if Orlando beats us without Lee.  I'm of the opinion that his play during that series, especially defending Ray Allen, did more to do us in than anything Dwight Howard did.  Hedo, as well; you sub in VC for Hedo and Lee in that series, I'm convinced the outcome is quite a bit different.  Lee's a baller.

Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2009, 05:21:03 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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'So far' is the key.  I'd have to agree with most and say Orlando. I do think think that Ryan Anderson can play, but he's probably not there quite yet.  I think Carter will have a great season however since he won't be the focus of the opposing defense.

I'd put Cleveland pretty close to Orlando however.  I don't see them as better this year.  Shaq will upset the chemistry on the team.  They'll still be formidable, but they cannot play any better than they did. 

The Cs still have some work to do, but they are only adding depth, not tweaking their starting line-up.
Yes, thank-you.  Cle has always tinkering with that starting lineup around LeBron.  If they lose Varejao they are in trouble like Orlando.

Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2009, 05:45:21 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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A couple people have sort of mentioned it, but I think the BIGGEST issue is losing Lee. He was the glue guy on offense in the playoffs (made few mistakes, hit clutch shots, help hold things together when they were on the verge of falling apart). Plus, he was easily their best perimeter defender. And all that playoff production came from a rookie that broke his face in the 1st round. He impressed me greatly. He may never be a star, but he's the type of a guy that a team needs to win a title. Big, big loss for Orlando, in my opinion.

I'm not sure if Orlando beats us without Lee.  I'm of the opinion that his play during that series, especially defending Ray Allen, did more to do us in than anything Dwight Howard did.  Hedo, as well; you sub in VC for Hedo and Lee in that series, I'm convinced the outcome is quite a bit different.  Lee's a baller.

Lee's contribution didn't really come guarding Ray Allen, but Eddie House.

Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2009, 11:05:48 PM »

Offline mgent

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Boston
Orlando
Cleveland
LAL
San Antonio

Clearly San Antonio has done the best, followed by LAL (if they keep Odom).

Orlando lost Hedo but they got Vince so they finally have someone who can create his own shot.  I would say Orlando was flat, maybe a bit better.

IMO, Cleveland has had the worst off-season of any of the elite teams.  Sure they got Shaq but he isn't the same guy he used to be.  It seems that players don't want to sign on knowing that LeBron may be gone by next year.


Us, obviously.
Orlando got VC which would've given them the championship but they lost Hedo and Pietrus won't fill his shoes.
Cleveland might've had the best if Shaq looks like he did last year instead of '08.
San Antonio has improved.
Artest is big for LA but i don't think they'll repeat.  Losing Ariza sucks and losing Odom will be even worse.
And us?  We're still the same team we were 2 years ago, yet everyone else is getting better so you do the math.
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Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2009, 11:14:49 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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Cleveland would've had the best if it were 2003.  Instead, they haven't really gotten much better.  Even with Parker, I think they're second best in a healthy East.

Orlando got significantly worse.  They lost Hedo, Alston, Battie, Lee and Gortat and all they got in return was Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson.  Four of the 5 guys they lost played significant roles in their run to the Finals, and Tony Battie isn't useless, either.  Orlando doesn't have any real backup bigs right now besides Ryan Anderson (Lewis is a SF). 

SA has clearly had the best off-season so far.  They went from 3rd or 4th best in the West to a clear 2nd, maybe the best.

The Lakers will be better next year, if only a little bit better.  They'll hold onto Odom.  They still have a crappy PG rotation, but the rest of their team is so solid it doesn't matter.  If Bynum can stay healthy for a whole year and play at All-Star level they'll be scary.

The Mavericks have also gotten better.  Let's assume they go through with acquiring Gortat, Marion, and Ross, and then hold onto Kidd.  They're a significantly improved team, and all they'll have lost is Stackhouse and maybe Brandon Bass.

So far we've significantly improved our bench and there's a good chance we'll hold onto BBD.  But we're still 2nd or 3rd best in the East without any proven wing reserves.
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Re: Of the elite teams, who has had the worst off-season so far?
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2009, 12:28:45 AM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

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Cleveland - Traded next to nothing for Shaq, who will still be able to give them something. After that it's down hill. They miss out on Rasheed, Ariza, Artest, Marion, Kidd, and only manage to sign Parker up to this point. Parker is decent, but still nothing like the others listed ahead of him. Probably won't have Wally back... Not a huge hit, but still a little significant. Still don't have a REAL all-star sidekick for LeBron.. Should have tried for Carter, or even Michael Redd despite the injury. No good power forward, and worst of all they exteneded their piece of crap forward Varejao to a six year, 50 million dollar contract. Ick. D+ C- at best.

Orlando - Missed out on Rasheed, and Marion who could have helped them most in free agency. Traded for Wince Carter while getting rid of a pretty solid chunk of their rotation in Lee, Battie, Alston. Got back Anderson, so that isn't too bad but you have to wonder where they have a backup PG. Then they're going to lose Gortat and Hedo because they apparently prefer a whine ass, oft injured Carter. I don't know about that, probably not wise. You just made it to the Finals with that core (Albeit, a fluke) and you want to break it up?
C- for the Orlando Magic

San Antonio - I really like what they've done so far. They missed out on their main target in Rasheed, but compensated quite nicely with McDyesse. Added a still fairly young Richard Jefferson for their old, worn out parts. Can't go wrong with that, at all. I still thinking they could use a slight upgrade at the starting two (Assuming Manu is sixth man) But if they can't find that guy, Roger Mason proved to be capable of an admirable job last season. Parker/Mason/Jefferson/Dyesse/Duncan with Ginobili off the bench is a really, really great rotation and they never did lose anything significant. A-

Lakers - Didn't have much of anything to show in the draft, but surprised me with them coming to terms so quickly with Ron Artest. A great signing, especially for just the MLE. Gives them needed toughness with a scoring threat to boot. I can easily see Odom vacating for Portland, however. Ariza is already gone to rival Houston. So with Odom and Ariza both likely gone, I don't feel too strongly about their bench. In fact, it looks extremely weak without Bynum or Odom in that slot. Morrison/Farmar/Brown/Walton/Vujacic/ Not looking so hot here. However, props for Artest... But they still only get a C+ because now it looks like their bench is completely... depleted.

Boston - Didn't look too hard into guys like Marion, Artest, but they did get the guy we were after all long - Rasheed. I'm going to try and not be biased here, but I do really like the signing. The team's biggest need got plugged a little bit. Rasheed, despite what you've been told by Detroit fans still plays really, really solid defense. He has numbers to prove it on basketballreference. Celtics still need to bring back Baby, though. He showed great improvement in the playoffs and while he isn't a star, he's certainly a huge luxary to have on the bench. Then the team still needs a backup three and a point guard behind Rondo. I'd like to see us sign one of those positions and then trade for the other. Right now, though I'll give us a B-