If we weren't willing to play KG hurt in the playoffs, why did we play Powe?

[crownsy]

How much do you think full access to a training staff and facilities is worth to leon? I would say its a substantial amount he gets to keep in his own pocket.

And i also reject your assumption that the celtics WONT in fact offer him the minimum with a team option for the year after at the end of the summer. It makes no sense to do it now however, and lose a roster spot. They may not do that, but niether you or I can know.

[expobear]

How much do you think full access to a training staff and facilities is worth to leon? I would say its a substantial amount he gets to keep in his own pocket.

And i also reject your assumption that the celtics WONT in fact offer him the minimum with a team option for the year after at the end of the summer. It makes no sense to do it now however, and lose a roster spot. They may not do that, but niether you or I can know.

Apparently it's not worth much because Leon's in LA doing his rehab.  The Celtics may offer Powe like you say, but what if Powe has already signed with somebody else?  That's the  risk of their "good" business decision, if Powe does come back healthy and does his thing with some other team, cheaply. But again, I think Powe is a better player than the Celtics do, so I understand why they did what they did. If it was Rondo who was in Powe's position, I'm sure the Celtics would have signed him.  Powe was just the 10th man and not worth a contract. 

[guava_wrench]

You guys don't understand anything, how is this nonsense?
It was a known fact Powe was nursing his other knee before the playoffs and he wasn't yet at 100%  Ever think that because that knee wasn't perfect he was favoring his other one?  That's called COMMON sense.
This is the freakin' NBA.  No guy in their right mind is gonna refuse to play.  Rondo plays hurt often, and Delonte did it more than any other guy i know (and still does from what i hear).  I'm sure KG would've played if Doc let him.
Now Leon's knee was obviously not bad enough for the medical staff to say no, but the fact is why didn't we play it 'better safe than sorry'?  If Powe had said no to his team people would've given him crap for that too.
And why do you have to bring up that charity case stuff again?  No intelligent people i know actually use charity as a reason to keep Powe.  He doesn't deserve to be paid cause he had a tragic life and got injured, he deserves to be paid because he has proved himself and will be useful again after he has healed.

I'm  sorry i don't meet your criteria of an intelligent person, my entire day is ruined now 

but, backhanded flames at my intelligence aside, all of that is complete speculation (the fact that he will be useful once healed, this is his fourth major knee injury, the third to that knee. That's a concern on an undersized tweener who realis on his athleticism as much as leon does) and is in fact a clear justification of paying him to not play, at the very best, until 3/4ths of the way through the season.

That's a charity handout, whether your comfortable admitting it to yourself or not.

He has full use of our facilities and training staff until he is fully healed, the celtics have been very, very VERY clear on that, and leon has thanked them for that and taken them up on thier offer. If he uses those advantages to get healthy, and we have a roster spot post Christmas, great, we will sign him.

If not, then if he is as valuable as you say, another team will sign him once he is healthy, and he will have every shot at EARNING his money.

But the ONLY possible explanation for paying him right now and taking up a roster spot we could use elsewhere while he rehabs is charity. You want to pay him 1.6 million dollars of the celtics money to rehab. That's a sweet deal for a guy who can't play and already has full access to our training staff for rehab purposes.

I don't, because i don't believe in paying people who can't work to make yourself feel all warm and fuzzy inside. He has full access to every single advantage the celtics can give him to get healthy, that's all the Celtics need to do at this point.

If he does so, and we have a roster spot after Christmas, I am 1000% on board with singing him, he's one of my favorite celtic players. If not, i wish him well once he recovers with whatever team he lands with.

AS BBall said, the people who want the Celtics to use a roster spot on leon and throw him some free money seem to have a hard time accepting that basketball is a business. Like all business, sometimes it isn't fair. It sucks that leon got hurt, I wish with all my heart i could change it, but it happened, and such is life. It's not always fair 

Why is it charity if the Celtics had signed Powe to a vet minimum?  Powe was definitely underpaid for the past two seasons, no doubt about that. Powe was a hard and loyal worker for the Celtics, a fan favorite to most and from what I hear, doing great work in the community. I'm not saying the Celtics should have signed Powe to a multi-year, multi-million dollar contract but a vet minimum while he's rehabbing makes sense in locking him up cheaply if he recovers and it would have been the ethical thing to do.  Business decision, yes but much like laying off a longtime worker in the year his/her pension becomes fully vested. It may be the right thing to do from a business standpoint but something about it just rubs me the wrong way. Whether life's not fair or not, Powe deserved a little better, even if the Celtics didn't think much of Powe as a player.

No, it is nothing like laying of an employee the year their pension becomes fully vested. He had nothing guaranteed after rookie contract and he is perfectly free to sign with another team.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I want to know where's the petition to sign Hudson now that he's injured. While we're at it, where's the petition for not moving Scal and TA given that one of them risked his life for us last year and the other played injured just as Powe did.

Where's the humanity?

[Chris]

I want to know where's the petition to sign Hudson now that he's injured. While we're at it, where's the petition for not moving Scal and TA given that one of them risked his life for us last year and the other played injured just as Powe did.

Where's the humanity?

You are talking about Tony Allen, risking his life by traveling to Chicago, right?

[BudweiserCeltic]

I want to know where's the petition to sign Hudson now that he's injured. While we're at it, where's the petition for not moving Scal and TA given that one of them risked his life for us last year and the other played injured just as Powe did.

Where's the humanity?

You are talking about Tony Allen, risking his life by traveling to Chicago, right?

Lol, forgot about that. And TA's case just got stronger, I don't know that anyone can argue against him now. Where's the ta-tition?

[crownsy]

How much do you think full access to a training staff and facilities is worth to leon? I would say its a substantial amount he gets to keep in his own pocket.

And i also reject your assumption that the celtics WONT in fact offer him the minimum with a team option for the year after at the end of the summer. It makes no sense to do it now however, and lose a roster spot. They may not do that, but niether you or I can know.

Apparently it's not worth much because Leon's in LA doing his rehab.  The Celtics may offer Powe like you say, but what if Powe has already signed with somebody else?  That's the  risk of their "good" business decision, if Powe does come back healthy and does his thing with some other team, cheaply. But again, I think Powe is a better player than the Celtics do, so I understand why they did what they did. If it was Rondo who was in Powe's position, I'm sure the Celtics would have signed him.  Powe was just the 10th man and not worth a contract. 

You don't think that has anything to do with the celtics training staff currently being split between orlando, waltham, and on vacation do you?

Leon said in his interview that barring another team signing him, he will most likely make use of the Celtics staff and facilities once the season starts and they are back to work.

[expobear]

How much do you think full access to a training staff and facilities is worth to leon? I would say its a substantial amount he gets to keep in his own pocket.

And i also reject your assumption that the celtics WONT in fact offer him the minimum with a team option for the year after at the end of the summer. It makes no sense to do it now however, and lose a roster spot. They may not do that, but niether you or I can know.

Apparently it's not worth much because Leon's in LA doing his rehab.  The Celtics may offer Powe like you say, but what if Powe has already signed with somebody else?  That's the  risk of their "good" business decision, if Powe does come back healthy and does his thing with some other team, cheaply. But again, I think Powe is a better player than the Celtics do, so I understand why they did what they did. If it was Rondo who was in Powe's position, I'm sure the Celtics would have signed him.  Powe was just the 10th man and not worth a contract. 

You don't think that has anything to do with the celtics training staff currently being split between orlando, waltham, and on vacation do you?

Leon said in his interview that barring another team signing him, he will most likely make use of the Celtics staff and facilities once the season starts and they are back to work.

Bad business decision.....Celtics shouldn't be handing out charity.

[crownsy]

How much do you think full access to a training staff and facilities is worth to leon? I would say its a substantial amount he gets to keep in his own pocket.

And i also reject your assumption that the celtics WONT in fact offer him the minimum with a team option for the year after at the end of the summer. It makes no sense to do it now however, and lose a roster spot. They may not do that, but niether you or I can know.

Apparently it's not worth much because Leon's in LA doing his rehab.  The Celtics may offer Powe like you say, but what if Powe has already signed with somebody else?  That's the  risk of their "good" business decision, if Powe does come back healthy and does his thing with some other team, cheaply. But again, I think Powe is a better player than the Celtics do, so I understand why they did what they did. If it was Rondo who was in Powe's position, I'm sure the Celtics would have signed him.  Powe was just the 10th man and not worth a contract. 

You don't think that has anything to do with the celtics training staff currently being split between orlando, waltham, and on vacation do you?

Leon said in his interview that barring another team signing him, he will most likely make use of the Celtics staff and facilities once the season starts and they are back to work.

Bad business decision.....Celtics shouldn't be handing out charity.

 

Well, TP to you for carrying on a good discussion, but I'm pretty much done discussion this.

It seems to come down to people who want leon rewarded with a contract he is not  able to fufil at this time due to a sense of him being a good kid and hope for his future with the club vs. people who are more willing to accept that sports is a business, and not run like that, and that the roster spot is valuable, as is the funding the other side want's to commit to a player who can't do his job at the current time.

Both sides are pretty set in their opinions, and it's just beating a dead horse at this point. We all know where each other stands.

[Bankshot]

Wow.  Still crying over Powe? 

[expobear]

How much do you think full access to a training staff and facilities is worth to leon? I would say its a substantial amount he gets to keep in his own pocket.

And i also reject your assumption that the celtics WONT in fact offer him the minimum with a team option for the year after at the end of the summer. It makes no sense to do it now however, and lose a roster spot. They may not do that, but niether you or I can know.

Apparently it's not worth much because Leon's in LA doing his rehab.  The Celtics may offer Powe like you say, but what if Powe has already signed with somebody else?  That's the  risk of their "good" business decision, if Powe does come back healthy and does his thing with some other team, cheaply. But again, I think Powe is a better player than the Celtics do, so I understand why they did what they did. If it was Rondo who was in Powe's position, I'm sure the Celtics would have signed him.  Powe was just the 10th man and not worth a contract. 

You don't think that has anything to do with the celtics training staff currently being split between orlando, waltham, and on vacation do you?

Leon said in his interview that barring another team signing him, he will most likely make use of the Celtics staff and facilities once the season starts and they are back to work.

Bad business decision.....Celtics shouldn't be handing out charity.

 

Well, TP to you for carrying on a good discussion, but I'm pretty much done discussion this.

It seems to come down to people who want leon rewarded with a contract he is not  able to fufil at this time due to a sense of him being a good kid and hope for his future with the club vs. people who are more willing to accept that sports is a business, and not run like that, and that the roster spot is valuable, as is the funding the other side want's to commit to a player who can't do his job at the current time.

Both sides are pretty set in their opinions, and it's just beating a dead horse at this point. We all know where each other stands.

Crownsy,

Final point on this matter.  Powe's injury made the Celtics' decision on resigning Powe much easier because I don't think they were going to resign him anyway, even if he didn't get hurt.  Powe was probably going to get some offers and the Celtics weren't going to match. Powe was a bargain at 700-800k per year but when his salary jumps to 3MM, the Celtics weren't going to pay that kind of money for a 15 minute sub. Now that Powe sustained a career threatening injury, the decision was a no brainer, really. I don't necessarily like the decision due to all the circumstances of Powe's situation but business is business.  We'll see if this decision comes back to haunt the Celtics.....I really doubt it will but I would like to see Leon play again in the NBA.   

[mgent]

You guys don't understand anything, how is this nonsense?
It was a known fact Powe was nursing his other knee before the playoffs and he wasn't yet at 100%  Ever think that because that knee wasn't perfect he was favoring his other one?  That's called COMMON sense.
This is the freakin' NBA.  No guy in their right mind is gonna refuse to play.  Rondo plays hurt often, and Delonte did it more than any other guy i know (and still does from what i hear).  I'm sure KG would've played if Doc let him.
Now Leon's knee was obviously not bad enough for the medical staff to say no, but the fact is why didn't we play it 'better safe than sorry'?  If Powe had said no to his team people would've given him crap for that too.
And why do you have to bring up that charity case stuff again?  No intelligent people i know actually use charity as a reason to keep Powe.  He doesn't deserve to be paid cause he had a tragic life and got injured, he deserves to be paid because he has proved himself and will be useful again after he has healed.

I'm  sorry i don't meet your criteria of an intelligent person, my entire day is ruined now 

but, backhanded flames at my intelligence aside, all of that is complete speculation (the fact that he will be useful once healed, this is his fourth major knee injury, the third to that knee. That's a concern on an undersized tweener who realis on his athleticism as much as leon does) and is in fact a clear justification of paying him to not play, at the very best, until 3/4ths of the way through the season.

That's a charity handout, whether your comfortable admitting it to yourself or not.

He has full use of our facilities and training staff until he is fully healed, the celtics have been very, very VERY clear on that, and leon has thanked them for that and taken them up on thier offer. If he uses those advantages to get healthy, and we have a roster spot post Christmas, great, we will sign him.

If not, then if he is as valuable as you say, another team will sign him once he is healthy, and he will have every shot at EARNING his money.

But the ONLY possible explanation for paying him right now and taking up a roster spot we could use elsewhere while he rehabs is charity. You want to pay him 1.6 million dollars of the celtics money to rehab. That's a sweet deal for a guy who can't play and already has full access to our training staff for rehab purposes.

I don't, because i don't believe in paying people who can't work to make yourself feel all warm and fuzzy inside. He has full access to every single advantage the celtics can give him to get healthy, that's all the Celtics need to do at this point.

If he does so, and we have a roster spot after Christmas, I am 1000% on board with singing him, he's one of my favorite celtic players. If not, i wish him well once he recovers with whatever team he lands with.

AS BBall said, the people who want the Celtics to use a roster spot on leon and throw him some free money seem to have a hard time accepting that basketball is a business. Like all business, sometimes it isn't fair. It sucks that leon got hurt, I wish with all my heart i could change it, but it happened, and such is life. It's not always fair 

You don't seem to understand i have no desire to pay him so i feel warm and fuzzy.  I'm not one of those guys, and i agree with you, they don't know business and they're pretty much idiots.  The fact of the matter is however, in this business no amount of money is worth the next banner.  The only reason i feel offering him the money now is justified is to ensure no one else signs him.  That is not charity, that is willing to pay any money to give us the best chance at a win.
Players have ended up being a bust for a lot more money than that in the past (Wally), and we have also paid players with NO intention of using them (Cassel).  I'd like to know how you consider that a good business decision.
Chances are you're right, no one will sign him and we will be able to for less later, but i think we should be better safe than sorry.
One more thing, i disagree with Danny telling Powe good luck with another team.  That sounds like he has NO intention of signing him on later.

[Bankshot]

You guys don't understand anything, how is this nonsense?
It was a known fact Powe was nursing his other knee before the playoffs and he wasn't yet at 100%  Ever think that because that knee wasn't perfect he was favoring his other one?  That's called COMMON sense.
This is the freakin' NBA.  No guy in their right mind is gonna refuse to play.  Rondo plays hurt often, and Delonte did it more than any other guy i know (and still does from what i hear).  I'm sure KG would've played if Doc let him.
Now Leon's knee was obviously not bad enough for the medical staff to say no, but the fact is why didn't we play it 'better safe than sorry'?  If Powe had said no to his team people would've given him crap for that too.
And why do you have to bring up that charity case stuff again?  No intelligent people i know actually use charity as a reason to keep Powe.  He doesn't deserve to be paid cause he had a tragic life and got injured, he deserves to be paid because he has proved himself and will be useful again after he has healed.

I'm  sorry i don't meet your criteria of an intelligent person, my entire day is ruined now 

but, backhanded flames at my intelligence aside, all of that is complete speculation (the fact that he will be useful once healed, this is his fourth major knee injury, the third to that knee. That's a concern on an undersized tweener who realis on his athleticism as much as leon does) and is in fact a clear justification of paying him to not play, at the very best, until 3/4ths of the way through the season.

That's a charity handout, whether your comfortable admitting it to yourself or not.

He has full use of our facilities and training staff until he is fully healed, the celtics have been very, very VERY clear on that, and leon has thanked them for that and taken them up on thier offer. If he uses those advantages to get healthy, and we have a roster spot post Christmas, great, we will sign him.

If not, then if he is as valuable as you say, another team will sign him once he is healthy, and he will have every shot at EARNING his money.

But the ONLY possible explanation for paying him right now and taking up a roster spot we could use elsewhere while he rehabs is charity. You want to pay him 1.6 million dollars of the celtics money to rehab. That's a sweet deal for a guy who can't play and already has full access to our training staff for rehab purposes.

I don't, because i don't believe in paying people who can't work to make yourself feel all warm and fuzzy inside. He has full access to every single advantage the celtics can give him to get healthy, that's all the Celtics need to do at this point.

If he does so, and we have a roster spot after Christmas, I am 1000% on board with singing him, he's one of my favorite celtic players. If not, i wish him well once he recovers with whatever team he lands with.

AS BBall said, the people who want the Celtics to use a roster spot on leon and throw him some free money seem to have a hard time accepting that basketball is a business. Like all business, sometimes it isn't fair. It sucks that leon got hurt, I wish with all my heart i could change it, but it happened, and such is life. It's not always fair 

You don't seem to understand i have no desire to pay him so i feel warm and fuzzy.  I'm not one of those guys, and i agree with you, they don't know business and they're pretty much idiots.  The fact of the matter is however, in this business no amount of money is worth the next banner.  The only reason i feel offering him the money now is justified is to ensure no one else signs him.  That is not charity, that is willing to pay any money to give us the best chance at a win.
Players have ended up being a bust for a lot more money than that in the past (Wally), and we have also paid players with NO intention of using them (Cassel).  I'd like to know how you consider that a good business decision.
Chances are you're right, no one will sign him and we will be able to for less later, but i think we should be better safe than sorry.
One more thing, i disagree with Danny telling Powe good luck with another team.  That sounds like he has NO intention of signing him on later.

So let someone else sign him.  It's not like we can't win without Powe or that he is a great player.

[mgent]

How much do you think full access to a training staff and facilities is worth to leon? I would say its a substantial amount he gets to keep in his own pocket.

And i also reject your assumption that the celtics WONT in fact offer him the minimum with a team option for the year after at the end of the summer. It makes no sense to do it now however, and lose a roster spot. They may not do that, but niether you or I can know.

Apparently it's not worth much because Leon's in LA doing his rehab.  The Celtics may offer Powe like you say, but what if Powe has already signed with somebody else?  That's the  risk of their "good" business decision, if Powe does come back healthy and does his thing with some other team, cheaply. But again, I think Powe is a better player than the Celtics do, so I understand why they did what they did. If it was Rondo who was in Powe's position, I'm sure the Celtics would have signed him.  Powe was just the 10th man and not worth a contract. 

You don't think that has anything to do with the celtics training staff currently being split between orlando, waltham, and on vacation do you?

Leon said in his interview that barring another team signing him, he will most likely make use of the Celtics staff and facilities once the season starts and they are back to work.

Bad business decision.....Celtics shouldn't be handing out charity.

 

Well, TP to you for carrying on a good discussion, but I'm pretty much done discussion this.

It seems to come down to people who want leon rewarded with a contract he is not  able to fufil at this time due to a sense of him being a good kid and hope for his future with the club vs. people who are more willing to accept that sports is a business, and not run like that, and that the roster spot is valuable, as is the funding the other side want's to commit to a player who can't do his job at the current time.

Both sides are pretty set in their opinions, and it's just beating a dead horse at this point. We all know where each other stands.

Oh come on, how the heck is that charity?
That's being a decent person.  If the Celtics said screw you we don't want you to rehab to your best ability then my thoughts of them would've significantly dropped.  Good to know you'd think better of them though, seeing as they make such great business decisions.
And i'm still failing to see how Powe is a helpless poor man who needs us to donate money to him in order to get by.  Everything i've said about signing has been purely selfish and been in order to maximize our own success, not his.

[guava_wrench]

You guys don't understand anything, how is this nonsense?
It was a known fact Powe was nursing his other knee before the playoffs and he wasn't yet at 100%  Ever think that because that knee wasn't perfect he was favoring his other one?  That's called COMMON sense.
This is the freakin' NBA.  No guy in their right mind is gonna refuse to play.  Rondo plays hurt often, and Delonte did it more than any other guy i know (and still does from what i hear).  I'm sure KG would've played if Doc let him.
Now Leon's knee was obviously not bad enough for the medical staff to say no, but the fact is why didn't we play it 'better safe than sorry'?  If Powe had said no to his team people would've given him crap for that too.
And why do you have to bring up that charity case stuff again?  No intelligent people i know actually use charity as a reason to keep Powe.  He doesn't deserve to be paid cause he had a tragic life and got injured, he deserves to be paid because he has proved himself and will be useful again after he has healed.

I'm  sorry i don't meet your criteria of an intelligent person, my entire day is ruined now 

but, backhanded flames at my intelligence aside, all of that is complete speculation (the fact that he will be useful once healed, this is his fourth major knee injury, the third to that knee. That's a concern on an undersized tweener who realis on his athleticism as much as leon does) and is in fact a clear justification of paying him to not play, at the very best, until 3/4ths of the way through the season.

That's a charity handout, whether your comfortable admitting it to yourself or not.

He has full use of our facilities and training staff until he is fully healed, the celtics have been very, very VERY clear on that, and leon has thanked them for that and taken them up on thier offer. If he uses those advantages to get healthy, and we have a roster spot post Christmas, great, we will sign him.

If not, then if he is as valuable as you say, another team will sign him once he is healthy, and he will have every shot at EARNING his money.

But the ONLY possible explanation for paying him right now and taking up a roster spot we could use elsewhere while he rehabs is charity. You want to pay him 1.6 million dollars of the celtics money to rehab. That's a sweet deal for a guy who can't play and already has full access to our training staff for rehab purposes.

I don't, because i don't believe in paying people who can't work to make yourself feel all warm and fuzzy inside. He has full access to every single advantage the celtics can give him to get healthy, that's all the Celtics need to do at this point.

If he does so, and we have a roster spot after Christmas, I am 1000% on board with singing him, he's one of my favorite celtic players. If not, i wish him well once he recovers with whatever team he lands with.

AS BBall said, the people who want the Celtics to use a roster spot on leon and throw him some free money seem to have a hard time accepting that basketball is a business. Like all business, sometimes it isn't fair. It sucks that leon got hurt, I wish with all my heart i could change it, but it happened, and such is life. It's not always fair 

You don't seem to understand i have no desire to pay him so i feel warm and fuzzy.  I'm not one of those guys, and i agree with you, they don't know business and they're pretty much idiots.  The fact of the matter is however, in this business no amount of money is worth the next banner.  The only reason i feel offering him the money now is justified is to ensure no one else signs him.  That is not charity, that is willing to pay any money to give us the best chance at a win.
Players have ended up being a bust for a lot more money than that in the past (Wally), and we have also paid players with NO intention of using them (Cassel).  I'd like to know how you consider that a good business decision.
Chances are you're right, no one will sign him and we will be able to for less later, but i think we should be better safe than sorry.
One more thing, i disagree with Danny telling Powe good luck with another team.  That sounds like he has NO intention of signing him on later.

If the Celtics want to go in another direction for basketball reasons, than the arguments about the Celtics being heartless or evil are just dumb. The argument should be that the Celtics made a bad personnel decision and leave the touchy-feely crap out.

The Wally comparison is completely irrelevant. You don't evaluate players now based on players in the past. Stick to your reasonable opinion that Powe could have contributed at a bargain price if we kept him.