Update: Tanguay's GUT says Rasheed Wallace to Boston looks to be a done deal

[screwedupmaniac]

It wasn't those kids' faults that danny and co. filled up 4 of our 15 vauluable roster spots with kids who should probably still be in college or overseas...however, they did, and when injuries came, we had no legit backups for anyone. we never had a valid backup for pierce this season, even from the start, because we were too busy trying to nurture infant billy skywalker. we're in win now mode, folks, and stocking up a team with kids is not the way to do it.

as for the gortat and pachulia ideas, they're both decent players and i see what you're saying, but they will both demand at least the full MLE (probably more, as gortat is looking at good money in NY), and i personally don't feel that either player is worth that much. once again, let's keep in mind the power that getting a proven veteran winner like sheed gives us...it gives us great ability to negotiate with FA's out there who are looking for a place to make a final championship run.

So, what was the problem? Age or depth? Or both?
We had a 9-men-rotation, which imo is enough for the playoffs, and as I said, 6 of these guys were over 30, and Perk has 6 years of NBA experience. The truth is, it was neither age or depth why our bench sucked, it was the quality of our rotation and their one-dimensional skill-sets.

Believe me, I understand the "win now" mode. I already annoyed enough people with my plea for a Posey-extension over the course of the last year. I don´t want young players. I´m not looking beyond next season. I want proven role-players who know their role and can produce. 35+ former all-star Rasheed Wallace doesn´t fit that description.

Age affected our depth, so both. A 9 man rotation is great for the playoffs, if you actually have guys with skill sets. Miki Moore does not fit this description. PJ Brown did. Let me remind you, if it wasn't for PJ Brown's jumpshot against the cavs, there would be no banner 17. The "old fart" brought just what we needed to the table when we needed it, and that's what sheed will do. he's a defensive minded big man with a jumpshot, his career is not over yet by any means. he just needs a good veteran team where he can come off the bench and contribute in fewer minutes.

[cordialb]

I hope this rumor is not true.

- 35 yeras old (We are always older, older, older and older)
- Bad 2008/2009 statistics: 6,5 pts in playoff
- Injury prone: 66 games played last year, missed 16
- Full MLE for sheed? It's a wrong move

We are getting older, and older, and older, and...

So what equivelent talented player will you be signing for the MLE then?

We already have enough talent on this team. What we need is the right pieces around our talent. Marbury has a lot of talent, but he played like crap (except for 5 minutes in the playoffs, where he was good, offensively). You need a completely different mind-set as a role-player than as the star of your team, and considering Rasheed´s play in the last 2 1/2 years, I seriously doubt his ability to adjust.

Sheed is done. If our big three would be 3 years younger, or if Wallace would be three years younger, I´d love this move. But they aren´t.

There are ~1000 big men in europe who can hit the three. I bet most of them are more athletic than a 35-year-old Wallace, and many of them would kill to be the backup on the Celtics.

I am completely opposed to the Sheed idea, and I´m one of the guys who really likes his personality. You can´t see our team or Sheed in a vacuum, this is about synergy effects. Even if he could be half the player he was three years ago: we´re talking about a 35-year-old former all-star backing up a 32-year old all-star coming off injury and a 25-year old Center with a history of shoulder issues.

It is not true that we were "too young" after KG went down, no matter what Doc says.
Walker, Giddens and Pruitt didn´t play. Our rotation was Perk, Baby, Pierce, Ray, Rondo, Marbury, House, Moore, Scal. 6 out of 9 were over 30, Perk played 6 years in the NBA! And Doc says we have a "lack of leadership"? Ridiculous. If there´s anyone to blame for a lack of leadership, it´s Doc.

This team isn´t too young, it is too old. Adding Sheed and maybe even Hill is insane.
I want a seasoned vet on the bench as well, but he should be 28-31, not beyond 35.

I've debating us getting too old also, and know that being young, mobile, and athletic has been one of our biggest previous weeknesses.  (see playoffs: atlanta, chicago)

However, after giving it some thought, i believe this would be an excellent move for the celts.  This move just gives doc another talented option to play with matchups.


Wallace has the ability to play two positions and the body to defend both.  But more importantly, his skillset allows us a great advantage on offense as he differs greatly from perk in his ability to spread the floor with an excellent 3 point shot or post smaller defenders.  I believe this will be a great asset when you think about our biggest challenges in the east. (when playing Shaq, Howard, B Wallace)  These guys are unable to guard wallace as he will draw them away from the basket. 


How do these teams matchup with a KG/Wallace Lineup? Who do you put howard or shaq/Big Z on?


To address the mobility loss on D, how mobile does he need to be to replace perk?  No disrespect to perk, but his quickness is very good for a center, and his experience would more than make up for anthing he is lacking in that department.

I'm really excited for this move if it holds to be true.  Using the full MLE on Wallace makes more sense than any other position when you look at the abundance of available quality SF Free agents out there.

Couple a FA SF signing with the resigning of marbury and i really like our chances.  My biggest concern would then be resigning BBD.

[Casperian]

Age affected our depth, so both. A 9 man rotation is great for the playoffs, if you actually have guys with skill sets. Miki Moore does not fit this description. PJ Brown did. Let me remind you, if it wasn't for PJ Brown's jumpshot against the cavs, there would be no banner 17. The "old fart" brought just what we needed to the table when we needed it, and that's what sheed will do. he's a defensive minded big man with a jumpshot, his career is not over yet by any means. he just needs a good veteran team where he can come off the bench and contribute in fewer minutes.

I´d say the contracts of the big three affect our depth much more than age.
I think it is obvious that Danny filled spots 12-15 with young players who could develop, because he wants them to learn and maybe produce in the future, and since they would never play in the playoffs under normal circumstances anyway, any older player would be a waste of a roster spot. So, with that in mind, it is completely understandable to fill these spots with young players, imo.

But that´s not my point.
My point is that our problem were the guys from 7-10, and how they don´t compliment our starting 5 to the point that they fill our needs. My point is that a team with an average rotation-age of 31 is simply too old, proven by the history of every sport who relies even just a bit on athleticism. It simply defies logic to put Rasheed and Hill on an aging team and expect them to play rejuvenated basketball.

Btw, P.J. Brown was exactly what I wanted back then, a proven role-player who could produce. P.J. still had game left. Sheed does not. The rest of our team was also two years younger, so it made much more sense to go for older guys.

[RedsCeltics34]

Tanguay better not be playing games (Which I dont see why he would). Sheed would be IDEAL off the bench for 25 minutes.

[screwedupmaniac]

Age affected our depth, so both. A 9 man rotation is great for the playoffs, if you actually have guys with skill sets. Miki Moore does not fit this description. PJ Brown did. Let me remind you, if it wasn't for PJ Brown's jumpshot against the cavs, there would be no banner 17. The "old fart" brought just what we needed to the table when we needed it, and that's what sheed will do. he's a defensive minded big man with a jumpshot, his career is not over yet by any means. he just needs a good veteran team where he can come off the bench and contribute in fewer minutes.

I´d say the contracts of the big three affect our depth much more than age.
I think it is obvious that Danny filled spots 12-15 with young players who could develop, because he wants them to learn and maybe produce in the future, and since they would never play in the playoffs under normal circumstances anyway, any older player would be a waste of a roster spot. So, with that in mind, it is completely understandable to fill these spots with young players, imo.

But that´s not my point.
My point is that our problem were the guys from 7-10, and how they don´t compliment our starting 5 to the point that they fill our needs. My point is that a team with an average rotation-age of 31 is simply too old, proven by the history of every sport who relies even just a bit on athleticism. It simply defies logic to put Rasheed and Hill on an aging team and expect them to play rejuvenated basketball.

it worked in 2008, i expect it to work now as well. you just said it yourself, your point is that players 7-10 didn't compliment our starting 5 well. How does being 31 or older have any effect on this whatsoever??

[Casperian]

it worked in 2008, i expect it to work now as well. you just said it yourself, your point is that players 7-10 didn't compliment our starting 5 well. How does being 31 or older have any effect on this whatsoever??

The whole team was two years younger, we had Posey who was a versatile role-player and glue-guy, and P.J. Brown was a proven role-player who knew his role and still had game left. That´s why it worked. Since then, KG and Powe got injured, Pierce looked gassed in the playoffs, and Ray Allen is up and down. Sheed is done, on a steady decline for 2 1/2 years now, and never played as a role-player in the last 10 years.

[screwedupmaniac]

it worked in 2008, i expect it to work now as well. you just said it yourself, your point is that players 7-10 didn't compliment our starting 5 well. How does being 31 or older have any effect on this whatsoever??

The whole team was two years younger, we had Posey who was a versatile role-player and glue-guy, and P.J. Brown was a proven role-player who knew his role and still had game left. That´s why it worked. Sheed is done, on a steady decline for 2 1/2 years now, and never played as a role-player in the last 10 years.

Where you keep losing me is at the part where you say "sheed is done". we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, because sheed's still got what it takes to contribute to a title team off the bench. all we really need at the end of the day is someone that can make an occasional shot and play D...that is not too much to ask of this guy, he can bring it.

by the way, how the heck was the team 2 years younger when this was just a year ago? also, here's an interesting link of the average age of teams...notice how the older the teams get, the more legit playoff teams you find: http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=43577

not that it neccessarily means anything, but i found it interesting

[nickagneta]

I agree. I don't think Sheed or Hill are done.

Given they will be playing less time than they are used to playing, that means they will be able to expend a larger amount of energy in a shorter amount of time and be better than they have been recently playing larger minutes. Many vets who have to play long minutes pace themselves and might not give 10000% effort every second they are in there. But if they know they are only going to play 22 MPG instead of 27-37 MPG, they don't have to worry about pacing themselves and can exert more energy and play better in those minutes.

I don't think either is a long term solution but neither do I think that they need to be. The window is open but will be closing. If the C's want to invest in an MLE long term contract then sure, never give it to these guys, give it to the Zazaa and Gortats and Chris Andersons of the world who could be successful for years to come. But if Danny wants vets that have been there and will help most in playoff time, the McDyesses, Wallaces, and Hills of the world for short amount of years is every bit of a great option, regardless of their age.

[Casperian]

it worked in 2008, i expect it to work now as well. you just said it yourself, your point is that players 7-10 didn't compliment our starting 5 well. How does being 31 or older have any effect on this whatsoever??

The whole team was two years younger, we had Posey who was a versatile role-player and glue-guy, and P.J. Brown was a proven role-player who knew his role and still had game left. That´s why it worked. Sheed is done, on a steady decline for 2 1/2 years now, and never played as a role-player in the last 10 years.

Where you keep losing me is at the part where you say "sheed is done". we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, because sheed's still got what it takes to contribute to a title team off the bench. all we really need at the end of the day is someone that can make an occasional shot and play D...that is not too much to ask of this guy, he can bring it.

by the way, how the heck was the team 2 years younger when this was just a year ago? also, here's an interesting link of the average age of teams...notice how the older the teams get, the more legit playoff teams you find: http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=43577

not that it neccessarily means anything, but i found it interesting

Uhm, because the next playoffs are one year away?

I am pretty confident with my predictions. Sheed will be the Iceberg to this team´s titanic if we pay the MLE for him.
But agree to disagree.

[screwedupmaniac]

But agree to disagree.

works for me, we'll let time be the judge of all...if tanguay's even right in the first place, which i'm not so sure of anyways haha

[Rael]

BB is gone if we get Sheed.  Both Sheed and KG can play 4 or 5, so look for a rotation with those two and Perk.  There are 96 minutes available per game for PF and C.  that means the three of them can each get in 32 minutes per game, which seems perfect regardless of who comes off the bench.  Hopefully, Leon (and some fresh legs) can find his way into that mix in February or March.

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

Unlike other GM's, Danny doesn't come off as the type of GM that would try to negotiate before July 1st. I'm sure most GM's do, but Danny seems like a straight laced by the rules guy. I remember a few years they video taped Toronto's draft war room and their GM called Danny to ask about Marcus Williams and Danny seemed to think it was unethical to only share info with Toronto. i think many GM's and FA's are negotiating now, but Danny will wait until July 1st.

Ainge? Ethical? Are you kidding me? You're talking about the same guy that was sitting down with Kevin and the entire Durrant family for dinner after some of his games at Texas.

[johnnyrondo]

Head's up. Tanguay says he'll be talking about Sheed and new news on BBD on CSN now.

Spears will be on.

[johnnyrondo]

Spears mentions Charlotte as a possibility for Sheed. Sheed is fond of Larry Brown. Spears says, "I'd actually be shocked if he didn't come (to Boston)". Spurs more interested in Dice.

[johnnyrondo]

Spears: Orlando is the big threat, but thinks it will be Boston.