instead of ping pong balls, an idea to eliminate tanking.

[ben]

instead of ping pong balls we should do this:

For teams that don't make the playoffs, rank them according to how many games they won AFTER they were mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. 

The team that wins the most games AFTER being mathematically eliminated from the playoffs should get the first pick in the draft.  The team that wins the least games AFTER being mathematically eliminated from the playoffs should be the 14th pick in the draft. 

For example,

     the clippers are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs with 24 games to go in the season, and they win 8 of those 24 games
     the bobcats are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs with 27 games to go in the season, and they win 7 of those 27 games.
     the pheonix suns are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs with 5 games to go in the season, and they win 5 of those 5 games. 

Since the clippers won the most after being mathematically eliminated they pick first in the draft.  The bobcats pick second, and the suns pick third. 

These rules will discourage tanking the end of seasons.  It will create more competition for franchises out of the playoffs. 

[beantownboy171]

instead of ping pong balls we should do this:

For teams that don't make the playoffs, rank them according to how many games they won AFTER they were mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. 

The team that wins the most games AFTER being mathematically eliminated from the playoffs should get the first pick in the draft.  The team that wins the least games AFTER being mathematically eliminated from the playoffs should be the 14th pick in the draft. 

These rules will discourage tanking the end of seasons.  It will create more competition for franchises out of the playoffs. 

Yah, but it also makes it impossible for genuinly terrible teams to get the number 1 pick. Causing 20-25 year dry spells without championships.

[PosImpos]

It also doesn't really work because teams will have drastically different points at which they are technically eliminated from the playoffs...for some teams it could go right down to the last couple games.  For others, it could be determined far sooner than that.

[ben]

instead of ping pong balls we should do this:

For teams that don't make the playoffs, rank them according to how many games they won AFTER they were mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. 

The team that wins the most games AFTER being mathematically eliminated from the playoffs should get the first pick in the draft.  The team that wins the least games AFTER being mathematically eliminated from the playoffs should be the 14th pick in the draft. 

These rules will discourage tanking the end of seasons.  It will create more competition for franchises out of the playoffs. 

Yah, but it also makes it impossible for genuinly terrible teams to get the number 1 pick. Causing 20-25 year dry spells without championships.

genuinly terrible teams will be mathematically knocked out of the playoffs first, which means they will have the most opportunities to get wins that count towards the number one draft pick.  If the LA Clippers are out of the playoffs with 24 games to go in the season, they will have 24 games to get as many wins as possible.  The phoenix suns, who had a chance to get in the playoffs almost the entire season, they will only have 4 or 5 games to get wins.  So the terrible team still gets an advantage. 

Your coment about 20 to 25 year dry spells makes no sense.  There are 30 nba teams, so the average dry spell for a franchise to go without a championship should be 29!  20 to 25 years is short!  look at the redsox, dry spells happen.  I'm concerned about tanking and I would like to reward teams who fight even after being eliminated from the playoffs. 

[guava_wrench]

It also doesn't really work because teams will have drastically different points at which they are technically eliminated from the playoffs...for some teams it could go right down to the last couple games.  For others, it could be determined far sooner than that.

In particular, the differences in records of other teams in the conference and division play too big of a role in determining elimination.

It also favors teams that have a more difficult early schedule and an easier later schedule. Or teams with injuries in the beginning of the season and not at the end.

The main problem is all games should count equally.

Since there is no problem with the ping pong balls, let's stick with that.

[johnnyrondo]

Well call me biased, but I still prefer the idea in this thread http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=29410.30 and this thread http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=29515.15 by that poster johnnyrondo on a different lottery system.    No system will be perfect, but you want a system where every team is playing to win, games that fans buy tickets for feature the team's best players (no sitting out for tanking), and you want the brightest young stars to be dispersed around the league. Well that's my opinion at least.

[ben]

It also doesn't really work because teams will have drastically different points at which they are technically eliminated from the playoffs...for some teams it could go right down to the last couple games.  For others, it could be determined far sooner than that.

In particular, the differences in records of other teams in the conference and division play too big of a role in determining elimination.

It also favors teams that have a more difficult early schedule and an easier later schedule. Or teams with injuries in the beginning of the season and not at the end.

The main problem is all games should count equally.

Since there is no problem with the ping pong balls, let's stick with that.

The problem I have with ping pong balls is that teams are awarded ping pong balls for losing games.

I disagree that all games should count equally.  Why should they?  The christmas day matchup celts and lakers was a bigger deal than golden state and milwakee bucks november 22.
And game 7 is a bigger deal than game one.  The point of this idea is to give MORE meaning to otherwise meaningless games at the end of the season.  Wouldn't it be nice if the victor between the worsed two franchises in a game at the end of the season could determine each franchise respective draft picks?  Imagine Portland vs. Seatle game determining the number one and number two draft picks in a draft that features greg oden and kevin durant.  

if you really like ping pong balls though, we could keep them.  But i would rather award ping pong balls for teams winning rather than losing.  The team that gets the most wins after being eliminated from the playoffs should get the most ping pong balls, etc.  

[johnnyrondo]

It also doesn't really work because teams will have drastically different points at which they are technically eliminated from the playoffs...for some teams it could go right down to the last couple games.  For others, it could be determined far sooner than that.

In particular, the differences in records of other teams in the conference and division play too big of a role in determining elimination.

It also favors teams that have a more difficult early schedule and an easier later schedule. Or teams with injuries in the beginning of the season and not at the end.

The main problem is all games should count equally.

Since there is no problem with the ping pong balls, let's stick with that.

The problem I have with ping pong balls is that teams are awarded ping pong balls for losing games.

I disagree that all games should count equally.  Why should they?  The christmas day matchup celts and lakers was a bigger deal than golden state and milwakee bucks november 22.
And game 7 is a bigger deal than game one.  The point of this idea is to give MORE meaning to otherwise meaningless games at the end of the season.  Wouldn't it be nice if the victor between the worsed two franchises in a game at the end of the season could determine each franchise respective draft picks?  Imagine Portland vs. Seatle game determining the number one and number two draft picks in a draft that features greg oden and kevin durant.  

if you really like ping pong balls though, we could keep them.  But i would rather award ping pong balls for teams winning rather than losing.  The team that gets the most wins after being eliminated from the playoffs should get the most ping pong balls, etc.  

Going with your system, one minor rule the NBA could make is that the team with the league's worst record automatically got the 4th pick and the team with the second to worst record automatically got the 5th pick. This would force teams to play hard to avid piling up the losses and losing out on a possible top 3 pick. Basically Stern enacted this rule when he punished the Grizz and the Celtics for tanking in 2007, by bumping us to 4 and 5

[ben]

It also doesn't really work because teams will have drastically different points at which they are technically eliminated from the playoffs...for some teams it could go right down to the last couple games.  For others, it could be determined far sooner than that.

In particular, the differences in records of other teams in the conference and division play too big of a role in determining elimination.

It also favors teams that have a more difficult early schedule and an easier later schedule. Or teams with injuries in the beginning of the season and not at the end.

The main problem is all games should count equally.

Since there is no problem with the ping pong balls, let's stick with that.

The problem I have with ping pong balls is that teams are awarded ping pong balls for losing games.

I disagree that all games should count equally.  Why should they?  The christmas day matchup celts and lakers was a bigger deal than golden state and milwakee bucks november 22.
And game 7 is a bigger deal than game one.  The point of this idea is to give MORE meaning to otherwise meaningless games at the end of the season.  Wouldn't it be nice if the victor between the worsed two franchises in a game at the end of the season could determine each franchise respective draft picks?  Imagine Portland vs. Seatle game determining the number one and number two draft picks in a draft that features greg oden and kevin durant.  

if you really like ping pong balls though, we could keep them.  But i would rather award ping pong balls for teams winning rather than losing.  The team that gets the most wins after being eliminated from the playoffs should get the most ping pong balls, etc.  

Going with your system, one minor rule the NBA could make is that the team with the league's worst record automatically got the 4th pick and the team with the second to worst record automatically got the 5th pick. This would force teams to play hard to avid piling up the losses and losing out on a possible top 3 pick. Basically Stern enacted this rule when he punished the Grizz and the Celtics for tanking in 2007, by bumping us to 4 and 5

I like your minor tweak! 

[BballTim]

  I think they should stick with the kind of system they have now but they should weight the records over a three year period with the most recent year counting the most. That would keep strong teams with an injury or two from winning the lottery and it would prevent teams from tanking when there's a franchise player in the draft.

[freshinthehouse]

For example,

     the clippers are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs with 24 games to go in the season, and they win 8 of those 24 games
     the bobcats are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs with 27 games to go in the season, and they win 7 of those 27 games.
     the pheonix suns are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs with 5 games to go in the season, and they win 5 of those 5 games. 

Since the clippers won the most after being mathematically eliminated they pick first in the draft.  The bobcats pick second, and the suns pick third. 

These rules will discourage tanking the end of seasons.  It will create more competition for franchises out of the playoffs. 

All this would do is cause teams to start tanking earlier so that they can get eliminated from play-off contention, thus giving them more games to play while out of playoff contention.

This is also unfair to teams depending on conference.  A team that is 3 games out in the western conference is odds are a better team than an eastern conference team that is three games out of the 8th seed.  Bad teams in the worse of the two conferences would be punished.

And like someone else said, this would cause teams to go on endless dry spells.  Not every bad team is tanking.  Some teams are just terrible.  This system would penalize those teams, causing them to stay terrible, with little change of improving through the draft.

The system works as-is.

[bobdelt]

instead of ping pong balls we should do this:

For teams that don't make the playoffs, rank them according to how many games they won AFTER they were mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. 

The team that wins the most games AFTER being mathematically eliminated from the playoffs should get the first pick in the draft.  The team that wins the least games AFTER being mathematically eliminated from the playoffs should be the 14th pick in the draft. 

These rules will discourage tanking the end of seasons.  It will create more competition for franchises out of the playoffs. 

Yah, but it also makes it impossible for genuinly terrible teams to get the number 1 pick. Causing 20-25 year dry spells without championships.

But they would be eliminated first - thereby having the greatest chance to win the most amount of games.

[toinewalka]

Decent thought, but I don't think anyone is really looking to change the ping pong ball system.  Teams have been tanking for years and that probably isn't going anywhere.  I do like the idea of trying to change that though.

[wdleehi]

Just get rid of the lottery. 


The worst team gets the 1st pick.   

[toinewalka]

Just get rid of the lottery. 


The worst team gets the 1st pick.

Spoken like a true Celtics fan.  Haha