I want Hanley Ramirez

[Donoghus]

[
1. The marlins won't trade him. He young and signed to a very team friendly contract for 4 more years.

2. you don't give up your ace and a high quality pitching prospect for hitting and zero pitching in return. thats just bad baseball.

This is all you need to know about this topic.

[bucknersrevenge]

I wouldn't even traded Beckett straight up for Ramirez, never mind including another young pitcher.  Pitching wins championships, not shortstops, we've proved that in 04 and 07.  I'd like him, but I'm not breaking this team or our great farm system up for Hanley Ramirez.

Slight correction: pitching and defense up the middle wins championships. We don't need Hanley Ramirez. He's a luxury. We need a solid defensive shortstop who can make the plays and we're fine. Even with Papi's documented struggles we're in 1st place. Scoring runs obviously has not been a problem for us. Hanley is nothing more then a "shiny gold watch". I'll take our pitching any day. I can't believe I just read someone actually suggest replacing Ells in CF with Hanley. Ells who just made the first error of his CAREER yesterday and has exhibited exceptional range in center. But let's take a career shortstop and throw in into CF at Fenway and have him learn a new position. This is a galactically BAD idea.

you need pop in your line up to win WSs. Last year was a pretty good example.

Sorry but you're wrong. The Yankees created a mini-dynasty in the late 90's without a serious masher in their lineup. They won with quality pitching(including an exceptional bullpen), solid defense and a relentless lineup that worked pitchers over. The Sox have enough pop in their lineup right now assuming Papi continues to show life in the 2nd half. And if Lowrie can come back and just do what he did down the stretch last year in the field and maybe a little more at the plate we're solid.

[winsomme]

I wouldn't even traded Beckett straight up for Ramirez, never mind including another young pitcher.  Pitching wins championships, not shortstops, we've proved that in 04 and 07.  I'd like him, but I'm not breaking this team or our great farm system up for Hanley Ramirez.

Slight correction: pitching and defense up the middle wins championships. We don't need Hanley Ramirez. He's a luxury. We need a solid defensive shortstop who can make the plays and we're fine. Even with Papi's documented struggles we're in 1st place. Scoring runs obviously has not been a problem for us. Hanley is nothing more then a "shiny gold watch". I'll take our pitching any day. I can't believe I just read someone actually suggest replacing Ells in CF with Hanley. Ells who just made the first error of his CAREER yesterday and has exhibited exceptional range in center. But let's take a career shortstop and throw in into CF at Fenway and have him learn a new position. This is a galactically BAD idea.

you need pop in your line up to win WSs. Last year was a pretty good example.

Sorry but you're wrong. The Yankees created a mini-dynasty in the late 90's without a serious masher in their lineup. They won with quality pitching(including an exceptional bullpen), solid defense and a relentless lineup that worked pitchers over. The Sox have enough pop in their lineup right now assuming Papi continues to show life in the 2nd half. And if Lowrie can come back and just do what he did down the stretch last year in the field and maybe a little more at the plate we're solid.

IMO the reason they didn't win it all last year was an extra hitter in the middle of the line up that other teams have no interest in pitching to....

Hanely would fit the bill perfectly from where I'm sitting.

[bucknersrevenge]

I wouldn't even traded Beckett straight up for Ramirez, never mind including another young pitcher.  Pitching wins championships, not shortstops, we've proved that in 04 and 07.  I'd like him, but I'm not breaking this team or our great farm system up for Hanley Ramirez.

Slight correction: pitching and defense up the middle wins championships. We don't need Hanley Ramirez. He's a luxury. We need a solid defensive shortstop who can make the plays and we're fine. Even with Papi's documented struggles we're in 1st place. Scoring runs obviously has not been a problem for us. Hanley is nothing more then a "shiny gold watch". I'll take our pitching any day. I can't believe I just read someone actually suggest replacing Ells in CF with Hanley. Ells who just made the first error of his CAREER yesterday and has exhibited exceptional range in center. But let's take a career shortstop and throw in into CF at Fenway and have him learn a new position. This is a galactically BAD idea.

you need pop in your line up to win WSs. Last year was a pretty good example.

Sorry but you're wrong. The Yankees created a mini-dynasty in the late 90's without a serious masher in their lineup. They won with quality pitching(including an exceptional bullpen), solid defense and a relentless lineup that worked pitchers over. The Sox have enough pop in their lineup right now assuming Papi continues to show life in the 2nd half. And if Lowrie can come back and just do what he did down the stretch last year in the field and maybe a little more at the plate we're solid.

IMO the reason they didn't win it all last year was an extra hitter in the middle of the line up that other teams have no interest in pitching to....

Hanely would fit the bill perfectly from where I'm sitting.

I hear what you're saying now win but I don't think they need a "fear-inspiring" hitter. Truth be told, right now I wouldn't want to see Youk or especially Bay up right now with runners on base. I think the fear our lineup imposes is in its overall depth. Not to mention 3 big reasons why you saw what you saw last year was because Ortiz clearly was not himself after suffering the injury that kept him out at least half the year. Varitek clearly struggled as well and Mike Lowell was a ghost last year. This year Ortiz has struggled still but he's had a terrific june thus far and showing signs of getting back to himself. Lowell along with Bay and Youk has carried the offense at times this season in place of ortiz and Varitek while still around the .220 range has hit the ball more squarely this year and with 10 HRs so far this year ties him for 4th on the team.

I'd rather our group of hitters right now that work pitchers, steal bags and get big hits from everyone and then go out and play great defense. Trying to mash your way through this division doesn't work.

[Brendan]

I wouldn't even traded Beckett straight up for Ramirez, never mind including another young pitcher.  Pitching wins championships, not shortstops, we've proved that in 04 and 07.  I'd like him, but I'm not breaking this team or our great farm system up for Hanley Ramirez.

Slight correction: pitching and defense up the middle wins championships. We don't need Hanley Ramirez. He's a luxury. We need a solid defensive shortstop who can make the plays and we're fine. Even with Papi's documented struggles we're in 1st place. Scoring runs obviously has not been a problem for us. Hanley is nothing more then a "shiny gold watch". I'll take our pitching any day. I can't believe I just read someone actually suggest replacing Ells in CF with Hanley. Ells who just made the first error of his CAREER yesterday and has exhibited exceptional range in center. But let's take a career shortstop and throw in into CF at Fenway and have him learn a new position. This is a galactically BAD idea.

you need pop in your line up to win WSs. Last year was a pretty good example.

Sorry but you're wrong. The Yankees created a mini-dynasty in the late 90's without a serious masher in their lineup. They won with quality pitching(including an exceptional bullpen), solid defense and a relentless lineup that worked pitchers over. The Sox have enough pop in their lineup right now assuming Papi continues to show life in the 2nd half. And if Lowrie can come back and just do what he did down the stretch last year in the field and maybe a little more at the plate we're solid.

I think this drastically under states how good Jeter, Bernie, and Posada were up the middle. That's your three "bad offense" positions and they had great players in all three. I would rate their D as "average to good". Tino and O'Neil were both above average offensive players.

[winsomme]

I wouldn't even traded Beckett straight up for Ramirez, never mind including another young pitcher.  Pitching wins championships, not shortstops, we've proved that in 04 and 07.  I'd like him, but I'm not breaking this team or our great farm system up for Hanley Ramirez.

Slight correction: pitching and defense up the middle wins championships. We don't need Hanley Ramirez. He's a luxury. We need a solid defensive shortstop who can make the plays and we're fine. Even with Papi's documented struggles we're in 1st place. Scoring runs obviously has not been a problem for us. Hanley is nothing more then a "shiny gold watch". I'll take our pitching any day. I can't believe I just read someone actually suggest replacing Ells in CF with Hanley. Ells who just made the first error of his CAREER yesterday and has exhibited exceptional range in center. But let's take a career shortstop and throw in into CF at Fenway and have him learn a new position. This is a galactically BAD idea.

you need pop in your line up to win WSs. Last year was a pretty good example.

Sorry but you're wrong. The Yankees created a mini-dynasty in the late 90's without a serious masher in their lineup. They won with quality pitching(including an exceptional bullpen), solid defense and a relentless lineup that worked pitchers over. The Sox have enough pop in their lineup right now assuming Papi continues to show life in the 2nd half. And if Lowrie can come back and just do what he did down the stretch last year in the field and maybe a little more at the plate we're solid.

IMO the reason they didn't win it all last year was an extra hitter in the middle of the line up that other teams have no interest in pitching to....

Hanely would fit the bill perfectly from where I'm sitting.

I hear what you're saying now win but I don't think they need a "fear-inspiring" hitter. Truth be told, right now I wouldn't want to see Youk or especially Bay up right now with runners on base. I think the fear our lineup imposes is in its overall depth. Not to mention 3 big reasons why you saw what you saw last year was because Ortiz clearly was not himself after suffering the injury that kept him out at least half the year. Varitek clearly struggled as well and Mike Lowell was a ghost last year. This year Ortiz has struggled still but he's had a terrific june thus far and showing signs of getting back to himself. Lowell along with Bay and Youk has carried the offense at times this season in place of ortiz and Varitek while still around the .220 range has hit the ball more squarely this year and with 10 HRs so far this year ties him for 4th on the team.

I'd rather our group of hitters right now that work pitchers, steal bags and get big hits from everyone and then go out and play great defense. Trying to mash your way through this division doesn't work.

I agree with what you're saying here. the depth in the lineup is really good, and they certainly can wear pitchers down by the amount of pitches they make them throw....and I'm not saying it won't work as is to win it all.

but like you were also saying, it's the fear factor from a hitter, not so much the pure power. Bay definitely has it in stretches and Pedroia had it last year too. Yuke, even with the big numbers, never seems to get consistently pitched around.

anyway, I'm a huge Papi and Lowell fan (probably my favorite players on the team) and never was fond of Tex (just rubbed me the wrong way), so I too am ready to see them get to work in the post season....just would like one more potent bat in the middle...

I think back to the dread I had last year every time Upton, Lee and Longoria were coming up....thinking "not these guys again"

to me Hanley is that kind of hitter. some don't like his defense, but plunk him in the middle of our line up and there'd be no pitcher interested in facing us.

[winsomme]

I wouldn't even traded Beckett straight up for Ramirez, never mind including another young pitcher.  Pitching wins championships, not shortstops, we've proved that in 04 and 07.  I'd like him, but I'm not breaking this team or our great farm system up for Hanley Ramirez.

Slight correction: pitching and defense up the middle wins championships. We don't need Hanley Ramirez. He's a luxury. We need a solid defensive shortstop who can make the plays and we're fine. Even with Papi's documented struggles we're in 1st place. Scoring runs obviously has not been a problem for us. Hanley is nothing more then a "shiny gold watch". I'll take our pitching any day. I can't believe I just read someone actually suggest replacing Ells in CF with Hanley. Ells who just made the first error of his CAREER yesterday and has exhibited exceptional range in center. But let's take a career shortstop and throw in into CF at Fenway and have him learn a new position. This is a galactically BAD idea.

you need pop in your line up to win WSs. Last year was a pretty good example.

Sorry but you're wrong. The Yankees created a mini-dynasty in the late 90's without a serious masher in their lineup. They won with quality pitching(including an exceptional bullpen), solid defense and a relentless lineup that worked pitchers over. The Sox have enough pop in their lineup right now assuming Papi continues to show life in the 2nd half. And if Lowrie can come back and just do what he did down the stretch last year in the field and maybe a little more at the plate we're solid.

I think this drastically under states how good Jeter, Bernie, and Posada were up the middle. That's your three "bad offense" positions and they had great players in all three. I would rate their D as "average to good". Tino and O'Neil were both above average offensive players.

depending on the year, each of those guys had times when you wanted no part of them at the plate.

O'Neil probably had his best years pre-WS wins, but those first couple Torre years, I never felt good when he was coming up...and he was pretty far down that order.

[bucknersrevenge]

I wouldn't even traded Beckett straight up for Ramirez, never mind including another young pitcher.  Pitching wins championships, not shortstops, we've proved that in 04 and 07.  I'd like him, but I'm not breaking this team or our great farm system up for Hanley Ramirez.

Slight correction: pitching and defense up the middle wins championships. We don't need Hanley Ramirez. He's a luxury. We need a solid defensive shortstop who can make the plays and we're fine. Even with Papi's documented struggles we're in 1st place. Scoring runs obviously has not been a problem for us. Hanley is nothing more then a "shiny gold watch". I'll take our pitching any day. I can't believe I just read someone actually suggest replacing Ells in CF with Hanley. Ells who just made the first error of his CAREER yesterday and has exhibited exceptional range in center. But let's take a career shortstop and throw in into CF at Fenway and have him learn a new position. This is a galactically BAD idea.

you need pop in your line up to win WSs. Last year was a pretty good example.

Sorry but you're wrong. The Yankees created a mini-dynasty in the late 90's without a serious masher in their lineup. They won with quality pitching(including an exceptional bullpen), solid defense and a relentless lineup that worked pitchers over. The Sox have enough pop in their lineup right now assuming Papi continues to show life in the 2nd half. And if Lowrie can come back and just do what he did down the stretch last year in the field and maybe a little more at the plate we're solid.

I think this drastically under states how good Jeter, Bernie, and Posada were up the middle. That's your three "bad offense" positions and they had great players in all three. I would rate their D as "average to good". Tino and O'Neil were both above average offensive players.

I'm not understating how good they were. You're making my point for me. They won with those players who were great at working pitchers, getting timely hits and playing solid defense. That's the point. They didn't win because they had one guy that inspired fear in opposing pitchers or because they had a masher in the middle of the order. Check the lineups on those Yankee teams. You won't find one.

[bucknersrevenge]

I wouldn't even traded Beckett straight up for Ramirez, never mind including another young pitcher.  Pitching wins championships, not shortstops, we've proved that in 04 and 07.  I'd like him, but I'm not breaking this team or our great farm system up for Hanley Ramirez.

Slight correction: pitching and defense up the middle wins championships. We don't need Hanley Ramirez. He's a luxury. We need a solid defensive shortstop who can make the plays and we're fine. Even with Papi's documented struggles we're in 1st place. Scoring runs obviously has not been a problem for us. Hanley is nothing more then a "shiny gold watch". I'll take our pitching any day. I can't believe I just read someone actually suggest replacing Ells in CF with Hanley. Ells who just made the first error of his CAREER yesterday and has exhibited exceptional range in center. But let's take a career shortstop and throw in into CF at Fenway and have him learn a new position. This is a galactically BAD idea.

you need pop in your line up to win WSs. Last year was a pretty good example.

Sorry but you're wrong. The Yankees created a mini-dynasty in the late 90's without a serious masher in their lineup. They won with quality pitching(including an exceptional bullpen), solid defense and a relentless lineup that worked pitchers over. The Sox have enough pop in their lineup right now assuming Papi continues to show life in the 2nd half. And if Lowrie can come back and just do what he did down the stretch last year in the field and maybe a little more at the plate we're solid.

IMO the reason they didn't win it all last year was an extra hitter in the middle of the line up that other teams have no interest in pitching to....

Hanely would fit the bill perfectly from where I'm sitting.

I hear what you're saying now win but I don't think they need a "fear-inspiring" hitter. Truth be told, right now I wouldn't want to see Youk or especially Bay up right now with runners on base. I think the fear our lineup imposes is in its overall depth. Not to mention 3 big reasons why you saw what you saw last year was because Ortiz clearly was not himself after suffering the injury that kept him out at least half the year. Varitek clearly struggled as well and Mike Lowell was a ghost last year. This year Ortiz has struggled still but he's had a terrific june thus far and showing signs of getting back to himself. Lowell along with Bay and Youk has carried the offense at times this season in place of ortiz and Varitek while still around the .220 range has hit the ball more squarely this year and with 10 HRs so far this year ties him for 4th on the team.

I'd rather our group of hitters right now that work pitchers, steal bags and get big hits from everyone and then go out and play great defense. Trying to mash your way through this division doesn't work.

I agree with what you're saying here. the depth in the lineup is really good, and they certainly can wear pitchers down by the amount of pitches they make them throw....and I'm not saying it won't work as is to win it all.

but like you were also saying, it's the fear factor from a hitter, not so much the pure power. Bay definitely has it in stretches and Pedroia had it last year too. Yuke, even with the big numbers, never seems to get consistently pitched around.

anyway, I'm a huge Papi and Lowell fan (probably my favorite players on the team) and never was fond of Tex (just rubbed me the wrong way), so I too am ready to see them get to work in the post season....just would like one more potent bat in the middle...

I think back to the dread I had last year every time Upton, Lee and Longoria were coming up....thinking "not these guys again"

to me Hanley is that kind of hitter. some don't like his defense, but plunk him in the middle of our line up and there'd be no pitcher interested in facing us.

That's interesting because the way I saw it it was not even those guys that scared me. It was Carlos Pena(when you said Lee I think you meant Pena). Even though Pena only hit .247 for the year he hit 17 HRs after the All-Star break and 13 of them put their team ahead. That's remarkable. And to me that speaks to the depth of the lineup that you can point to. The fear was in the depth. The 8th and 9th hitters would get on and then before you know it you have to navigate through the heart of that order with runners on base and THAT was the scary part. I didn't fear Pena and Longoria with nobody on. But if that 9th man or that leadoff man got on and THEN you have to see those guys that usually meant something bad was about to happen.

Still even after all that it's still defense up the middle that means the most. If you have guys that can make the routine plays up the middle and also some of those difficult rangy plays that save some runs that's all this team needs.