Phil Jackson isn't even in the same class as Red

[Brickowski]

Yes, give Phil and the Lakers their due.  They played well in the palyoffs and deserved to win.  And Phil coached well.  Orlando was no pushover (just ask LeBron).

[silverb]

They were both great in their own respective eras...

Phil and Red are both in a class of their own. Maybe you should try to coach the "Best player" ever in that certain era and see just how hard that would be. Coaching great players doesn't automatically mean it makes the job easier, you now have to not only coach x's and o's but ego's and chemistry as well.

But just because Hakeem Olajuwon only had 2 rings and shaq has 4, doesn't mean that Shaq was better than Hakeem.

[Moranis]

Agreed and agreed.

Also, did Red ever quit the Celtics for a year to write a memoir about "the last season" before returning to coach a few more seasons?

Jackson would have never come back if Rudy T didn't get diagnosed with cancer (or whatever it was).  Phil bailed the Lakers out when they were left without a coach.  I don't think he would be coaching today if Rudy T didn't have to leave.

Well, if we want to get specific about who bailed out who, then I saw Memphis GM Wallace bailed out the LA Lakers with the stupid Pau Gasol trade.  It was Pau, IMO, which makes the Lakers the championship team they are.

you mean the trade in which Memphis picked up their starting center, a young PG they like, and 2 other first round picks

[Roy Hobbs]

Agreed and agreed.

Also, did Red ever quit the Celtics for a year to write a memoir about "the last season" before returning to coach a few more seasons?

Jackson would have never come back if Rudy T didn't get diagnosed with cancer (or whatever it was).  Phil bailed the Lakers out when they were left without a coach.  I don't think he would be coaching today if Rudy T didn't have to leave.

Well, if we want to get specific about who bailed out who, then I saw Memphis GM Wallace bailed out the LA Lakers with the stupid Pau Gasol trade.  It was Pau, IMO, which makes the Lakers the championship team they are.

you mean the trade in which Memphis picked up their starting center, a young PG they like, and 2 other first round picks

You mean the young PG they like that now plays for Washington?

[PSquared]

I take great offense to reading how they say "Phil Jackson is now the best coach EVER" when the correct thing to say was "Phil Jackson is now the best coach of HIS ERA".  *THAT* would be more appropriate, acceptable, and tolerable.

Give me a break, ESPN... 

[Eja117]

If Red had played musical coaching chairs like Phil I'm pretty sure he could have won 15 championships.

Don't be surprised to see Phil coaching Lebron at some point in the future.

[CelticWes34]

Doesn't Red technically have 16 rings from being associated with the team in one form or another.

I think Red will technically have each and every ring that Boston wins...Red IS the Celtics!

[CelticWes34]

They were both great in their own respective eras...

Phil and Red are both in a class of their own. Maybe you should try to coach the "Best player" ever in that certain era and see just how hard that would be. Coaching great players doesn't automatically mean it makes the job easier, you now have to not only coach x's and o's but ego's and chemistry as well.

But just because Hakeem Olajuwon only had 2 rings and shaq has 4, doesn't mean that Shaq was better than Hakeem.

Very good point. TP. I can't stand how people always use the championship number to determine who is best. Just because Malone never won a championship does not mean he was not better than Robert Horry, James Posey, etc.

People get too caught up in that stuff. For me, Red MADE the Celtics the team they are today. When you think of past Boston teams you think of grit, hard work, hustle, sacrifice, etc. These were all very Red'esque (can I make a new word like that?) When I think of Phil Jackson I think manipulator, con artist, quitter, and bang wagon jumper.

With that said, Red will ALWAYS be the best coach to ever grace the sidelines.

[Fafnir]

Agreed and agreed.

Also, did Red ever quit the Celtics for a year to write a memoir about "the last season" before returning to coach a few more seasons?

Jackson would have never come back if Rudy T didn't get diagnosed with cancer (or whatever it was).  Phil bailed the Lakers out when they were left without a coach.  I don't think he would be coaching today if Rudy T didn't have to leave.

Well, if we want to get specific about who bailed out who, then I saw Memphis GM Wallace bailed out the LA Lakers with the stupid Pau Gasol trade.  It was Pau, IMO, which makes the Lakers the championship team they are.

you mean the trade in which Memphis picked up their starting center, a young PG they like, and 2 other first round picks

You mean the young PG they like that now plays for Washington?

That trade was  pure money dump, the Lakers offered Memphis the biggest savings so they pulled the trigger. Marc Gasol turned out okay, that doesn't mean it wasn't 25 cents on the dollar for Gasol.

[celts60]

I wonder if Pat Riley ever regrets overstaying with the show time Lakers.  If Riley was available after the Bulls had fired Doug Collins, the Bulls would have probably been more interested in hiring Riley, not Phil Jackson, to coach Jordan.  Then Riley could have won multiple titles in Chicago.  After that, like Jackson, Riley could have then coached Shaq and Kobe in LA.  He'd have won like 15 titles.

[RMO]

I don't have time to write it all out so I'm going to post my comments from a different thread a couple months ago:


Look, I hate Phil Jackson.  I think he's smug and arrogant.  I do not buy the notion though that he's not a great coach because he's always had great players.  He's been able to balance some very strong egos and there's no doubt he should be mentioned with some of the greatest to coach the game. 

That being said, I think "greatest coach" should be judged not only by success but to their contribution to the game as well.  Red Auerbach created strategies and concepts that have become fundamentals of the game:  the sixth man, the role player and the fast break to name just a couple.  These are things so basic and fundamental to us that we take for granted that someone had to come up with these ideas.  Just because the wheel is so common in our everyday lives should not diminish the importance of the invention.  Red created and utilized these concepts which not only translated to success on the court but changed the game forever.  What will be remembered as Phil's contribution when he leaves the game (and remember - Tex Winter created the triangle)?

[FromDowntown]

I greatly respect both Phil Jackson and Red in their respective accomplishments.  Echoing what many others said, they coached in totally different eras with totally different responsibilities.

However, I would just like to point out that, the same homer community that seems to say "titles aren't everything" when it comes to evaluating a coach's greatness are the same homers who say "titles are everything" when comparing franchises (i.e. the Lakers vs. the Celtics) while conveniently ignoring other statistics.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[paintitgreen]

Ooooh, ooooooohhhhh, nice. Well done. 1 post, 1 TP from me.

[Eja117]

I greatly respect both Phil Jackson and Red in their respective accomplishments.  Echoing what many others said, they coached in totally different eras with totally different responsibilities.

However, I would just like to point out that, the same homer community that seems to say "titles aren't everything" when it comes to evaluating a coach's greatness are the same homers who say "titles are everything" when comparing franchises (i.e. the Lakers vs. the Celtics) while conveniently ignoring other statistics.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

That's because teams can't go around and choose the best situation whereas coaches named Phil can, so I'd like a big slice of cheescake with a little cherry on top so I can scarf it please. Keep the change

[FromDowntown]

There's more to evaluating a team/player/coach than the situation they're in.  My point is that if you want to evaluate something from all angles (which does include situation, as you mentioned), which I think you should, be consistent.