Bring in PacMan Jones and/or Michael Vick

[Eja117]

They both cost nothing, are tremendous talents, have served their time, could help at positions of need, and know we'll cut them in 2 seconds if they act out. Maybe they could start on the practice squad.

I'd at least bring them in for workouts. It's hard to find Pro-Bowlesque players for cheap and I'd be ticked if the Giants beat us in the Super Bowl cause they did this and we didn't.

[MattG12]

Michael Vick: Yes
PacMan Jones: No

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

They both cost nothing, are tremendous talents, have served their time, could help at positions of need, and know we'll cut them in 2 seconds if they act out.

What positions of need? Vick won't be a QB in the system and the Pats have a LOADED corps of wideouts with Moss, Welker, Galloway, and Lewis plus Faulk catching out of the backfield and the TE situation where it is. The guy Edelman they drafted is enough of a Wildcat specialist they think (and they are smarter then I am) that it's redundant to bring in a Mike Vick and deal with all the crap that comes with it for competition at an extremely specialized spot.

Pacman is nothing more then a slightly above average kick returner but CB liability... He's not the electric player he was pre-suspension. Bodden Springs Butler Wheatley and Wilhite are enough to go on at CB, and any reps Pacman gets would take away from the young and seemingly skilled guys the Pats have at his position.

I see the lack of risk as a positive and agree with you there, but it's frankly not worth it.   

[Eja117]

They both cost nothing, are tremendous talents, have served their time, could help at positions of need, and know we'll cut them in 2 seconds if they act out.

What positions of need? Vick won't be a QB in the system and the Pats have a LOADED corps of wideouts with Moss, Welker, Galloway, and Lewis plus Faulk catching out of the backfield and the TE situation where it is. The guy Edelman they drafted is enough of a Wildcat specialist they think (and they are smarter then I am) that it's redundant to bring in a Mike Vick and deal with all the crap that comes with it for competition at an extremely specialized spot.

Pacman is nothing more then a slightly above average kick returner but CB liability... He's not the electric player he was pre-suspension. Bodden Springs Butler Wheatley and Wilhite are enough to go on at CB, and any reps Pacman gets would take away from the young and seemingly skilled guys the Pats have at his position.

I see the lack of risk as a positive and agree with you there, but it's frankly not worth it.   

Vick is way better than Edleman.  I thought of him as more of a RB or returner or possibly even a safety of some sort if he has kept in decent shape and can run as fast as before.

For Pac Man (or Vick) if he sucks like you say just cut him.

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

They both cost nothing, are tremendous talents, have served their time, could help at positions of need, and know we'll cut them in 2 seconds if they act out.

What positions of need? Vick won't be a QB in the system and the Pats have a LOADED corps of wideouts with Moss, Welker, Galloway, and Lewis plus Faulk catching out of the backfield and the TE situation where it is. The guy Edelman they drafted is enough of a Wildcat specialist they think (and they are smarter then I am) that it's redundant to bring in a Mike Vick and deal with all the crap that comes with it for competition at an extremely specialized spot.

Pacman is nothing more then a slightly above average kick returner but CB liability... He's not the electric player he was pre-suspension. Bodden Springs Butler Wheatley and Wilhite are enough to go on at CB, and any reps Pacman gets would take away from the young and seemingly skilled guys the Pats have at his position.

I see the lack of risk as a positive and agree with you there, but it's frankly not worth it.   

Vick is way better than Edleman.  I thought of him as more of a RB or returner or possibly even a safety of some sort if he has kept in decent shape and can run as fast as before.

For Pac Man (or Vick) if he sucks like you say just cut him.

How do you know Vick is still better? No question Vick was the ultimate Wildcat model before he was out of football, but Edelman has been on the field, getting looked at by coaches and reported back with all reports coming back very positive on what he can do. We have no idea what condition Vick is in or how his athleticism has suffered since prison.

In a sense I see where you're coming from with the idea of bring everyone in with no risk, but while the Pats have taken guys with character issues (Moss, Dillon, etc.), they have all shown at least flashes of intelligence and capability, plus they 100% had the talent. They won't stick their neck out unless it's a guarantee they can contribute on the field, which Pacman and Vick cannot provide. Plus, Kraft does care about the Patriots brand and image, and Vick and Pacman are just too much of a hit for a longshot training camp option at positions that are already loaded. 

[Eja117]

They both cost nothing, are tremendous talents, have served their time, could help at positions of need, and know we'll cut them in 2 seconds if they act out.

What positions of need? Vick won't be a QB in the system and the Pats have a LOADED corps of wideouts with Moss, Welker, Galloway, and Lewis plus Faulk catching out of the backfield and the TE situation where it is. The guy Edelman they drafted is enough of a Wildcat specialist they think (and they are smarter then I am) that it's redundant to bring in a Mike Vick and deal with all the crap that comes with it for competition at an extremely specialized spot.

Pacman is nothing more then a slightly above average kick returner but CB liability... He's not the electric player he was pre-suspension. Bodden Springs Butler Wheatley and Wilhite are enough to go on at CB, and any reps Pacman gets would take away from the young and seemingly skilled guys the Pats have at his position.

I see the lack of risk as a positive and agree with you there, but it's frankly not worth it.   

Vick is way better than Edleman.  I thought of him as more of a RB or returner or possibly even a safety of some sort if he has kept in decent shape and can run as fast as before.

For Pac Man (or Vick) if he sucks like you say just cut him.

How do you know Vick is still better? No question Vick was the ultimate Wildcat model before he was out of football, but Edelman has been on the field, getting looked at by coaches and reported back with all reports coming back very positive on what he can do. We have no idea what condition Vick is in or how his athleticism has suffered since prison.

In a sense I see where you're coming from with the idea of bring everyone in with no risk, but while the Pats have taken guys with character issues (Moss, Dillon, etc.), they have all shown at least flashes of intelligence and capability, plus they 100% had the talent. They won't stick their neck out unless it's a guarantee they can contribute on the field, which Pacman and Vick cannot provide. Plus, Kraft does care about the Patriots brand and image, and Vick and Pacman are just too much of a hit for a longshot training camp option at positions that are already loaded. 

Vick would have to go from being one of the best athletes on the planet to being worse than a rookie 7th rounder out of Kent St for Edlemen to be better.

I just think Vick is faster, stronger, throws better, and has experience that Edlemen doesn't have even at the college level. Who was Edlemen's biggest competition in college? They got beat by Boston College last year at home in the first game of the season in a shut out. Then they got beat by 20 by 2-10 Iowa State at home. They then went 3-5 in the Mac and beat 1-AA team Delaware St to finish 4-8.  Vick has NFL playoff experience.

Even with a couple years in jail Vick is the better NFL guy. There's a very good chance Edlemen will never play a down in a regular season NFL game. Vick has done his best to stay in shape. He'd have to drop off a cliff for Edlemen to be better. Or Edlemen could be the find of the century.

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

They both cost nothing, are tremendous talents, have served their time, could help at positions of need, and know we'll cut them in 2 seconds if they act out.

What positions of need? Vick won't be a QB in the system and the Pats have a LOADED corps of wideouts with Moss, Welker, Galloway, and Lewis plus Faulk catching out of the backfield and the TE situation where it is. The guy Edelman they drafted is enough of a Wildcat specialist they think (and they are smarter then I am) that it's redundant to bring in a Mike Vick and deal with all the crap that comes with it for competition at an extremely specialized spot.

Pacman is nothing more then a slightly above average kick returner but CB liability... He's not the electric player he was pre-suspension. Bodden Springs Butler Wheatley and Wilhite are enough to go on at CB, and any reps Pacman gets would take away from the young and seemingly skilled guys the Pats have at his position.

I see the lack of risk as a positive and agree with you there, but it's frankly not worth it.   

Vick is way better than Edleman.  I thought of him as more of a RB or returner or possibly even a safety of some sort if he has kept in decent shape and can run as fast as before.

For Pac Man (or Vick) if he sucks like you say just cut him.

How do you know Vick is still better? No question Vick was the ultimate Wildcat model before he was out of football, but Edelman has been on the field, getting looked at by coaches and reported back with all reports coming back very positive on what he can do. We have no idea what condition Vick is in or how his athleticism has suffered since prison.

In a sense I see where you're coming from with the idea of bring everyone in with no risk, but while the Pats have taken guys with character issues (Moss, Dillon, etc.), they have all shown at least flashes of intelligence and capability, plus they 100% had the talent. They won't stick their neck out unless it's a guarantee they can contribute on the field, which Pacman and Vick cannot provide. Plus, Kraft does care about the Patriots brand and image, and Vick and Pacman are just too much of a hit for a longshot training camp option at positions that are already loaded. 

Vick would have to go from being one of the best athletes on the planet to being worse than a rookie 7th rounder out of Kent St for Edlemen to be better.

I just think Vick is faster, stronger, throws better, and has experience that Edlemen doesn't have even at the college level. Who was Edlemen's biggest competition in college? They got beat by Boston College last year at home in the first game of the season in a shut out. Then they got beat by 20 by 2-10 Iowa State at home. They then went 3-5 in the Mac and beat 1-AA team Delaware St to finish 4-8.  Vick has NFL playoff experience.

Even with a couple years in jail Vick is the better NFL guy. There's a very good chance Edlemen will never play a down in a regular season NFL game. Vick has done his best to stay in shape. He'd have to drop off a cliff for Edlemen to be better. Or Edlemen could be the find of the century.

Edelman really impressed at his pro day workout in the Kent State Field House. Edelman ran a 4.51 second 40-yard dash, which would have topped all quarterbacks at the NFL Scouting Combine in February and placed him in the top 15 among receivers. Edelman’s times of 3.91 seconds in the short shuttle and 10.74 in the long shuttle would have been the fastest times recorded at the Combine, regardless of position. NFL people asked him to run the short shuttle again because they didn’t believe the number and Edelman actually ran it even faster the next time.

Vick ran an outstanding 4.32 and admittedly didn't run at the combine so the other measurables aren't readily available, but don't think that this "rookie 7th rounder out of Kent State" is nothing just because his team lost to Iowa State. The Pats aren't asking him to lead an offense, they are using him for a specialized set of definitely not more then 5-10 plays per game. It is not essential to the team's success that they run the Wildcat at all, nevermind the idea of bringing in a guy who spent the last 2 years or so quarterbacking both of Ft. Leavenworth's teams. He is not worth the extra media scrutiny and attention to bring on a Belichick camp for an outside shot at 5-10 plays per game when there is a capable young guy ready to take the 5 snaps anyway. 

[noro]

And we are assuming the Pats are going to use the wildcat why? We have TOM BRADY. We don't need gimmick plays to score touchdowns, we just lob it up to Randy Moss and simple as that. The wildcat is for teams that aren't that good that need to use gimmicks to win (see Miami Dolphins). I'd be willing to bet the fins don't win 10 games next year and don't make the playoffs. The Wildcat is exposed and people will know how to defend it.

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

And we are assuming the Pats are going to use the wildcat why? We have TOM BRADY. We don't need gimmick plays to score touchdowns, we just lob it up to Randy Moss and simple as that. The wildcat is for teams that aren't that good that need to use gimmicks to win (see Miami Dolphins). I'd be willing to bet the fins don't win 10 games next year and don't make the playoffs. The Wildcat is exposed and people will know how to defend it.

First, it's never a bad idea to expand an offensive arsenal, no matter how good they are at what they normally do. The more things a defense has to prepare for, the tougher it is for the opposing staff. Even if they use it one time in one game, it's still a legit option when there's a favorable defensive matchup every once in awhile. It won't be featured or frequent, but the threat could be enough to mess with a defense once or twice a year. And if that once or twice a year is a divisional opponent or other meaningful game, then it's worth it.

The OP was about the usefulness of Vick or Pacman on this Pats roster, and I'm just saying that would be the only conceivable way to use Vick in New England, and even that doesn't make sense.

[Eja117]

Good points all. I am extremely impressed when we are having Julian Edlemen debates, but I still see no comparison between the two.

I'm not thinking so much about the Wildcat (although that's a good point).

I am thinking our starting QB is a 32 year old coming off major surgery and married to the highest earning supermodel ever and that Matt Cassell isn't here any more.

I'm thinking of backup QB and I think Vick is better than the two guys we have at least for now

Who cares about controversy? Belichek is the perfect guy to say "We made this decision for football reasons. We didn't really think a lot about what PETA would say. If PETA boycotts us that's their choice, but we're here to play football and not worry about that."

[Eja117]

All I'm saying is from Nov 8 to Dec 6 we have in order Miami, Indy, Jets, Saints, Miami

Let's say Brady is hurt for those 5 weeks. Who do you want at backup QB? Vick or Kevin O'Connell? To me it's no question. It could make a big difference

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

Good points all. I am extremely impressed when we are having Julian Edlemen debates, but I still see no comparison between the two.

I was just thinking the same thing... when I signed on, Julian Edelman would be the last thing I'd think of mentioning on a normal CB day  

I'm not thinking so much about the Wildcat (although that's a good point).

I am thinking our starting QB is a 32 year old coming off major surgery and married to the highest earning supermodel ever and that Matt Cassell isn't here any more.

I'm thinking of backup QB and I think Vick is better than the two guys we have at least for now

This is an interesting thought. However, I'd be very surprised if Vick would accept a backup QB role given where he was. His major asset was his athleticism, and he didn't generally make the most accurate throws or the best decisions which makes him the anti-Pats QB. The Pats staff seems to like O'Connell, so I don't know that they'd agree Vick would be a better NE fit. O'Connell is more accurate, that's no debate, and the decision making is progressing similarly to Cassel early last year. Vick had the experience and still made the mistakes after years in the league. O'Connell hasn't had the time.

Who cares about controversy? Belichek is the perfect guy to say "We made this decision for football reasons. We didn't really think a lot about what PETA would say. If PETA boycotts us that's their choice, but we're here to play football and not worry about that."

Absolutely 100% true. Part of me thinks Belichick would actually enjoy telling PETA to shove it haha...However, Kraft does take his brand extremely seriously, and I don't know if the boss would like Vick. Moss and Dillon had off field issues, but nothing this bad.

[Change]

I think Vick could help some teams, but not this year. How in the world could he be productive after sitting out 2 seasons? I just don't see how he could help Patriots this season.

Meanwhile, Pacman hasn't proven anything. Just cause you hear his name on TV doesn't make him legit. On the football field, PaC is just not good enough.

[Eja117]

Good points all. I am extremely impressed when we are having Julian Edlemen debates, but I still see no comparison between the two.

I was just thinking the same thing... when I signed on, Julian Edelman would be the last thing I'd think of mentioning on a normal CB day  

I'm not thinking so much about the Wildcat (although that's a good point).

I am thinking our starting QB is a 32 year old coming off major surgery and married to the highest earning supermodel ever and that Matt Cassell isn't here any more.

I'm thinking of backup QB and I think Vick is better than the two guys we have at least for now

This is an interesting thought. However, I'd be very surprised if Vick would accept a backup QB role given where he was. His major asset was his athleticism, and he didn't generally make the most accurate throws or the best decisions which makes him the anti-Pats QB. The Pats staff seems to like O'Connell, so I don't know that they'd agree Vick would be a better NE fit. O'Connell is more accurate, that's no debate, and the decision making is progressing similarly to Cassel early last year. Vick had the experience and still made the mistakes after years in the league. O'Connell hasn't had the time.

Who cares about controversy? Belichek is the perfect guy to say "We made this decision for football reasons. We didn't really think a lot about what PETA would say. If PETA boycotts us that's their choice, but we're here to play football and not worry about that."

Absolutely 100% true. Part of me thinks Belichick would actually enjoy telling PETA to shove it haha...However, Kraft does take his brand extremely seriously, and I don't know if the boss would like Vick. Moss and Dillon had off field issues, but nothing this bad.

That's funny. I'd enjoy telling them to shove it

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

Good points all. I am extremely impressed when we are having Julian Edlemen debates, but I still see no comparison between the two.

I was just thinking the same thing... when I signed on, Julian Edelman would be the last thing I'd think of mentioning on a normal CB day  

I'm not thinking so much about the Wildcat (although that's a good point).

I am thinking our starting QB is a 32 year old coming off major surgery and married to the highest earning supermodel ever and that Matt Cassell isn't here any more.

I'm thinking of backup QB and I think Vick is better than the two guys we have at least for now

This is an interesting thought. However, I'd be very surprised if Vick would accept a backup QB role given where he was. His major asset was his athleticism, and he didn't generally make the most accurate throws or the best decisions which makes him the anti-Pats QB. The Pats staff seems to like O'Connell, so I don't know that they'd agree Vick would be a better NE fit. O'Connell is more accurate, that's no debate, and the decision making is progressing similarly to Cassel early last year. Vick had the experience and still made the mistakes after years in the league. O'Connell hasn't had the time.

Who cares about controversy? Belichek is the perfect guy to say "We made this decision for football reasons. We didn't really think a lot about what PETA would say. If PETA boycotts us that's their choice, but we're here to play football and not worry about that."

Absolutely 100% true. Part of me thinks Belichick would actually enjoy telling PETA to shove it haha...However, Kraft does take his brand extremely seriously, and I don't know if the boss would like Vick. Moss and Dillon had off field issues, but nothing this bad.

That's funny. I'd enjoy telling them to shove it

As would I... TP for that haha