am i the only one??? (Is Rondo unfairly criticized?)

[BballTim]

 No, you're not the only one, but the naysayers and critics always rule the day on celticsblog during the offseason.

I disagree.  I guarantee that if you counted the number of "Rondo is untouchable / shouldn't be traded under any circumstances" posts, and compared them to the "Rondo is seriously flawed" posts, the former would be in the majority, probably by a 2-1 or 3-1 margin.

but which is closer to the truth: the "Rondo is untouchable" posts or the "why i can't stand Rondo" posts?

like i just noted in the other thread, Rondo is a top 5 PG, so IMO any critiques of his game should to be made keeping that in mind.

The former is closer to the truth, although in my mind, neither is necessarily close.

However, if we're limiting the critics to the "why I can't stand Rondo" type of posts, then I think the ratio is closer to 10:1 for vs. against (and probably closer to 75:1, frankly).  Very few people "can't stand" Rondo.

From my own perspective, Rondo isn't a top-five point guard yet.  He's in the top ten (although I think he's more inconsistent than most top-ten PGs), but I don't think he's solidified a top five spot yet. 

I think a lot of people, in evaluating Rondo, are solely focusing on his first four or five games against Chicago, and are ignoring the 82 regular season games, as well as the Orlando series.  When you look at his entire body of work, you see a young PG who is sometimes brilliant, and at other times looks like a borderline second-rounder.  On average, he's still a good player, but his game has some very real deficiencies that need work. 

  You think there have been 75 "Rondo is untouchable"posts recently? I must have missed quite a few of them.

[winsomme]

like i just noted in the other thread, Rondo is a top 5 PG, so IMO any critiques of his game should to be made keeping that in mind.

Can you give examples of critiques that are made with that in mind and critiques that are made without that in mind?

For the love of God, I have no freaking idea how the fact that a player is a top-5, top-10, top-20 or even the GOAT can affect the way one critiques and analyses his strengths and weaknesses. That's a completely novel concept to me.

well for one, the volume of posts on this overblown topic is certainly indicative of a lack of awareness of where Rondo is in terms other PGs in the league.

Everything in life is relative, so unless the overall level of Rondo's play is significantly below other top players at the position, then this amount of criticism is excessive IMO.

[Roy Hobbs]

 No, you're not the only one, but the naysayers and critics always rule the day on celticsblog during the offseason.

I disagree.  I guarantee that if you counted the number of "Rondo is untouchable / shouldn't be traded under any circumstances" posts, and compared them to the "Rondo is seriously flawed" posts, the former would be in the majority, probably by a 2-1 or 3-1 margin.

but which is closer to the truth: the "Rondo is untouchable" posts or the "why i can't stand Rondo" posts?

like i just noted in the other thread, Rondo is a top 5 PG, so IMO any critiques of his game should to be made keeping that in mind.

The former is closer to the truth, although in my mind, neither is necessarily close.

However, if we're limiting the critics to the "why I can't stand Rondo" type of posts, then I think the ratio is closer to 10:1 for vs. against (and probably closer to 75:1, frankly).  Very few people "can't stand" Rondo.

From my own perspective, Rondo isn't a top-five point guard yet.  He's in the top ten (although I think he's more inconsistent than most top-ten PGs), but I don't think he's solidified a top five spot yet. 

I think a lot of people, in evaluating Rondo, are solely focusing on his first four or five games against Chicago, and are ignoring the 82 regular season games, as well as the Orlando series.  When you look at his entire body of work, you see a young PG who is sometimes brilliant, and at other times looks like a borderline second-rounder.  On average, he's still a good player, but his game has some very real deficiencies that need work. 

  You think there have been 75 "Rondo is untouchable"posts recently? I must have missed quite a few of them.

Posts?  Easily.  I just spent 2 minutes on the front page, and found 40+ of them (from 20 or so distinct posters) in the last few days.  That assumes you count posts like "Rondo is a Celtic for life" as equivalent to "Rondo is untouchable".

[BballTim]

 No, you're not the only one, but the naysayers and critics always rule the day on celticsblog during the offseason.

I disagree.  I guarantee that if you counted the number of "Rondo is untouchable / shouldn't be traded under any circumstances" posts, and compared them to the "Rondo is seriously flawed" posts, the former would be in the majority, probably by a 2-1 or 3-1 margin.

but which is closer to the truth: the "Rondo is untouchable" posts or the "why i can't stand Rondo" posts?

like i just noted in the other thread, Rondo is a top 5 PG, so IMO any critiques of his game should to be made keeping that in mind.

The former is closer to the truth, although in my mind, neither is necessarily close.

However, if we're limiting the critics to the "why I can't stand Rondo" type of posts, then I think the ratio is closer to 10:1 for vs. against (and probably closer to 75:1, frankly).  Very few people "can't stand" Rondo.

From my own perspective, Rondo isn't a top-five point guard yet.  He's in the top ten (although I think he's more inconsistent than most top-ten PGs), but I don't think he's solidified a top five spot yet. 

I think a lot of people, in evaluating Rondo, are solely focusing on his first four or five games against Chicago, and are ignoring the 82 regular season games, as well as the Orlando series.  When you look at his entire body of work, you see a young PG who is sometimes brilliant, and at other times looks like a borderline second-rounder.  On average, he's still a good player, but his game has some very real deficiencies that need work. 

  You think there have been 75 "Rondo is untouchable"posts recently? I must have missed quite a few of them.

Posts?  Easily.  I just spent 2 minutes on the front page, and found 40+ of them (from 20 or so distinct posters) in the last few days.  That assumes you count posts like "Rondo is a Celtic for life" as equivalent to "Rondo is untouchable".

  By "front page" do you mean the replies to the articles on the front page? I generally don't read them. In any case, I stand corrected.

[Roy Hobbs]

By "front page" do you mean the replies to the articles on the front page? I generally don't read them. In any case, I stand corrected.

Yes, replies to the articles and FanPosts.

[Ed Teach]

I really hope that these trade talks for both Rondo and Allen are smoke screens.
Although I know that no player is "off-limits". The best NBA owners are always looking to improve the team and also look at long term sucess.
But being selfish, I want to see the Celtics concentrate on what really hurt this year, The Bench.

Too many teams have made big off-season moves that on paper should make the team better but the on court results have been disapointing.  I think that the current core of the team is a contender for a title, they are so close.  I would hate to see it significantly changed even if it looks beter on paper.  That being said, I want to see the Celtics maximize the bench upgrades.  I would gladly take some salary cap issues down the road if it means 2 or 3 more years of potential championships.

[BballTim]

I think Rondo's defense is getting an unfair amount of criticism.

However, outside of that, I don't have any problem with the discussion/posts debating Rondo's strengths/weaknesses/contract value/trade value.

  I agree with this, but I'm not crazy about any of the trade proposals that I see. Not just because of Rondo, but most of the "trade Ray" threads leave us with a big hole at sg.

[cordobes]

like i just noted in the other thread, Rondo is a top 5 PG, so IMO any critiques of his game should to be made keeping that in mind.

Can you give examples of critiques that are made with that in mind and critiques that are made without that in mind?

For the love of God, I have no freaking idea how the fact that a player is a top-5, top-10, top-20 or even the GOAT can affect the way one critiques and analyses his strengths and weaknesses. That's a completely novel concept to me.

well for one, the volume of posts on this overblown topic is certainly indicative of a lack of awareness of where Rondo is in terms other PGs in the league.

Everything in life is relative, so unless the overall level of Rondo's play is significantly below other top players at the position, then this amount of criticism is excessive IMO.

This topic isn't about someone complaining that Rondo is being criticized too much? Priceless.

I'm yet to understand what exactly are those extremely unfair criticisms that Rondo gets.

If anything, there's a huge tendency here (and every other fan board) to be overprotective towards the home players, especially those drafted and groomed by the team.

[indeedproceed]

I think Rondo's defense is getting an unfair amount of criticism.

However, outside of that, I don't have any problem with the discussion/posts debating Rondo's strengths/weaknesses/contract value/trade value.

  I agree with this, but I'm not crazy about any of the trade proposals that I see. Not just because of Rondo, but most of the "trade Ray" threads leave us with a big hole at sg.

There are maybe 10 other SG's I could see filling in for Ray without a really significant drop off in production, and I don't just mean points.

Of those 10 guys, 5 are untouchable (Kobe, D Wade, Brandon Roy, Iggy), 6 cost too much (J Johnson, Manu, T Mac, Vince Carter, and one (Ben Gordon) I want no part of.

Couple of those guys I'd want no part of.

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

there seems to be an overwhelming analysis, trade ideas, skepticism, etc of rondo over the last week or two on the boards.  am i the only one who feels this is unjustified?  sure he has some weaknesses, but his positive attributes far outweigh his negative ones.

he was playing on some weak ankles, having rolled/sprained them multiple times the second half of the season, yet he nearly averaged a triple double in the playoffs. not to mention, the starters were required to play a ton of minutes due to the pathetic play from the reserves.

personally, he is so far down on the radar as to why we didnt succeed this postseason.  injuries obviously were number one.  the most glaring weakness this season, especially in the post season, was the bench.  they were terrible!

when guys on the team, i specifically remember interviews from paul, ray, and perk.....they all said rondo was the mvp of the team and does an excellent job running the team. 

the focus should be on the reserves, not rondo.

Yes, I'm right there with you Dark_Lord.  Relative to his worth to the team and his various strengths and weaknesses, the focus on Rondo and his suspect jumpshot and how it supposedly lost the Orlando series has been completely overblown.  Yes, Rondo should improve his jump shot and yes it would have helped in the Orlando series if Rondo was more of an outside threat, but from the volume of conversation on this site and others, it's as if Rondo's bad jumper is our #1 problem going into next season.  In reality, it's probably not even in the top ten...

The fact is, Rondo's a unique player and that makes him hard to understand (for some).  His game doesn't fit neatly into what is usually considered a competent point guard.  Because of his uniqueness, he forces one to expand one's concept of what a point guard 'needs' to be to be successful and lead a team.  In fact, the kind of conceptual shift necessary to accurately contemplate Rondo has led some usually insightful posters to start raving like lunatics...  

[cordobes]

I think Rondo's defense is getting an unfair amount of criticism.

Yeah, I also think his defence is generally misunderstood, as I wrote on Nick's thread.

[BballTim]

I think Rondo's defense is getting an unfair amount of criticism.

However, outside of that, I don't have any problem with the discussion/posts debating Rondo's strengths/weaknesses/contract value/trade value.

  I agree with this, but I'm not crazy about any of the trade proposals that I see. Not just because of Rondo, but most of the "trade Ray" threads leave us with a big hole at sg.

There are maybe 10 other SG's I could see filling in for Ray without a really significant drop off in production, and I don't just mean points.

Of those 10 guys, 5 are untouchable (Kobe, D Wade, Brandon Roy, Iggy), 6 cost too much (J Johnson, Manu, T Mac, Vince Carter, and one (Ben Gordon) I want no part of.

Couple of those guys I'd want no part of.

  From your list I don't think we could get Kobe, Wade, Roy, Manu or Johnson. I think Iggy would be a better replacement for Paul's role than Ray's. I just can't seem to get excited about Vince, who's probably the most likely of the group. I wouldn't trade for TMac and don't really like Gordon. Kevin Martin is also probably in the unavailable group.

[wiley]

If Rondo couldn't shoot AND couldn't score, then I'd agree we have a problem.  But Rondo's going to be a great scorer in the league imo.  

So that, plus the intangibles:  IQ, rebounding (hustle), leadership potential, general passing skills (as opposed to assists), steals (even if overrated) and low turnover count (couple bad games but mostly excellent) all allow me to forgive the shooting woes, not just partly forgive, but forgive in a big spiritual sense

[winsomme]

like i just noted in the other thread, Rondo is a top 5 PG, so IMO any critiques of his game should to be made keeping that in mind.

Can you give examples of critiques that are made with that in mind and critiques that are made without that in mind?

For the love of God, I have no freaking idea how the fact that a player is a top-5, top-10, top-20 or even the GOAT can affect the way one critiques and analyses his strengths and weaknesses. That's a completely novel concept to me.

well for one, the volume of posts on this overblown topic is certainly indicative of a lack of awareness of where Rondo is in terms other PGs in the league.

Everything in life is relative, so unless the overall level of Rondo's play is significantly below other top players at the position, then this amount of criticism is excessive IMO.

This topic isn't about someone complaining that Rondo is being criticized too much? Priceless.

based on what the actual criticism is with his game....Yep.

We spent all last year hearing from posters about how Rondo's lack of a jump shot was going to cost us a Title....not only did that not turn out to be the case, but Rondo was actually a factor in winning the Title.

Now we are in a season where Rondo has not only moved amongst the best at his position but one where he practically carried us through the first round of the playoffs (something Deron and CP3 weren't able to do by the way) and still the same tired observation.

[cordobes]

like i just noted in the other thread, Rondo is a top 5 PG, so IMO any critiques of his game should to be made keeping that in mind.

Can you give examples of critiques that are made with that in mind and critiques that are made without that in mind?

For the love of God, I have no freaking idea how the fact that a player is a top-5, top-10, top-20 or even the GOAT can affect the way one critiques and analyses his strengths and weaknesses. That's a completely novel concept to me.

well for one, the volume of posts on this overblown topic is certainly indicative of a lack of awareness of where Rondo is in terms other PGs in the league.

Everything in life is relative, so unless the overall level of Rondo's play is significantly below other top players at the position, then this amount of criticism is excessive IMO.

This topic isn't about someone complaining that Rondo is being criticized too much? Priceless.

based on what the actual criticism is with his game....Yep.

We spent all last year hearing from posters about how Rondo's lack of a jump shot was going to cost us a Title....

Who? Personally I think that's insane, Rondo would never be that big of a factor, especially with House able to step up.

I don't think my argument is tired at all. Doc just made it a few days ago, but I guess that from your POV Doc is also a Rondo hater, right?