Defending the Cle Cavs and the Alleged King James

[indeedproceed]

Okay, let me preface all this by saying:

I think the notion that Lebron stalked off the court against the Magic and was a no show at the press conference because he's "just so unbelievably competitive" is just ridiculous. Not funny, not inspiring. It was childish, it was classless and it's clear Lebron is not quite ready to unify the hordes of NBA fans in an organized uprising against our NFL overlords.

But put a little bit of this in perspective.

All season, the Cavaliers acted too entitled, too arrogant for a team that’s won nothing. They ran out demanding that Mo Williams(notes) be made an All-Star, when the truth bore itself out in the playoffs: Cleveland has one All-Star. Nevertheless, Williams still embarrassed the Cavs with foolish proclamations and guarantees his middling talent couldn’t deliver.

“If you believe in karma with that nonsense,” one Western Conference executive said, “then Cleveland got what was coming to them.”

Oh yeah? Well they won 66 games this regular season. They cruised through the first two rounds of the playoffs 8-0.

They finished the season 76-20, with the Magic responsible for six of those losses. The Cleveland Cavaliers did NOT get beaten by hubris. They got beaten by a team that upon reflection, clearly had their number, when almost no other NBA team did. That's not something to be ashamed of, even Napoleon had a Waterloo.

The notion that the Cleveland Cavaliers had too much swagger or were too cocky isn't outlandish, but its also not really legitimate. Lebron James made a mistake in a season where he seemed to effortlessly carry 40+ years of Cleveland misery on his freakishly strong shoulders. This kid is the most special athlete I've ever seen, and he's going to continue to redefine what being a superstar is. Sure leaving the court without saying good game is a tradition I've been doing and seeing in every single sport (and I played rugby. Try shaking a guy's hand when he purposefully stepped on your head then laughed at you) I've ever played, and I think to deny that excellent tradition is just stupid. But it happened once and was a mistake.

However, to flatly state that nobody will tell him he made a mistake, or to kind of intimate that Cleveland or Lebron "got what was coming to them" because of some kind of arrogance or lack of respect they gave the rest of the nba is equally ridiculous. You know who got what was coming to them? Every team besides the Lakers and the Magic. They got what they deserved because they weren't good enough to win.

Yes that includes us but we didn't have KG. Its best not to talk about it.



EDIT: This is a re-post of a fanpost I made earlier today. Nobody seems to see those though

[Donoghus]

I think what ultimately did them in was just being involved in  a poor team matchup with Orlando. 

This Cleveland team was no joke during the regular season and I had serious reservations about anyone in the East beating them, especially once KG went down for us.  To an extent, I think a team does need to carry some arrogance and self confidence.  Last year's Celtics certainly fit that mold although it was less flashy (i.e. no posing for fake photos and the such).  Maybe some of the Cavs did carry a sense of entitlement and THAT is a dangerous mentality to carry. (ESPN & TNT certainly didn't help deflect that) When your leader is 24 years old, mistakes like that can happen. 

Personally, I think Lebron is one of those "once in a lifetime" players and when all is said and done, will be arguably one of the top 5 players ever to play this game.  I respect the hell out of his game and you won't find me knocking his style ON THE COURT.  I do think the post series antics were a bit childish and selfish but when you've been accustomed to getting everything your way in your chosen career and you're only 24 years old, its hard not to get caught up in yourself.  That time will pass.  I sure know that when I was 22, 23, 24 years old, I thought I had it all figured out when I really had no clue.

[indeedproceed]

Exactly...Orlando had their number, end of story. Not the most sensational news, but its the only news to me really worth noting about the whole thing.

[winsomme]

Okay, let me preface all this by saying:

I think the notion that Lebron stalked off the court against the Magic and was a no show at the press conference because he's "just so unbelievably competitive" is just ridiculous. Not funny, not inspiring. It was childish, it was classless and it's clear Lebron is not quite ready to unify the hordes of NBA fans in an organized uprising against our NFL overlords.

But put a little bit of this in perspective.

All season, the Cavaliers acted too entitled, too arrogant for a team that’s won nothing. They ran out demanding that Mo Williams(notes) be made an All-Star, when the truth bore itself out in the playoffs: Cleveland has one All-Star. Nevertheless, Williams still embarrassed the Cavs with foolish proclamations and guarantees his middling talent couldn’t deliver.

“If you believe in karma with that nonsense,” one Western Conference executive said, “then Cleveland got what was coming to them.”

Oh yeah? Well they won 66 games this regular season. They cruised through the first two rounds of the playoffs 8-0.

They finished the season 76-10, with the Magic responsible for six of those losses. The Cleveland Cavaliers did NOT get beaten by hubris. They got beaten by a team that upon reflection, clearly had their number, when almost no other NBA team did. That's not something to be ashamed of, even Napoleon had a Waterloo.

The notion that the Cleveland Cavaliers had too much swagger or were too cocky isn't outlandish, but its also not really legitimate. Lebron James made a mistake in a season where he seemed to effortlessly carry 40+ years of Cleveland misery on his freakishly strong shoulders. This kid is the most special athlete I've ever seen, and he's going to continue to redefine what being a superstar is. Sure leaving the court without saying good game is a tradition I've been doing and seeing in every single sport (and I played rugby. Try shaking a guy's hand when he purposefully stepped on your head then laughed at you) I've ever played, and I think to deny that excellent tradition is just stupid. But it happened once and was a mistake.

However, to flatly state that nobody will tell him he made a mistake, or to kind of intimate that Cleveland or Lebron "got what was coming to them" because of some kind of arrogance or lack of respect they gave the rest of the nba is equally ridiculous. You know who got what was coming to them? Every team besides the Lakers and the Magic. They got what they deserved because they weren't good enough to win.



Yes that includes us but we didn't have KG. Its best not to talk about it.



EDIT: This is a re-post of a fanpost I made earlier today. Nobody seems to see those though

I hear the point you're making, but basically don't agree.

I think CLEs hubris was part of their problem. It put them in panic mode when that series got tough. and they simply weren't prepared for it.

A lot of guys missed shots they were making all season, and to me that can be attributed in part to the panic that quickly set in once they realized how tough ORL was going to be to beat.

As for Bron, I thought a  quote Barry Melrose used this morning was pretty right on. "Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it."

Bron is an otherworldly player, but has some serious growing up to do. It wasn't just his behavior after the game, but the next day too.

To still be so certain of his actions and to wear that Yankees cap while doing it. He just hasn't put that aspect of what he means to the game together yet.

Part of me thinks that now more than ever he needs to re-up with CLE and win his Title(s) there. But I do have some really good friends who are Knicks fans, so I kinda don't want to do that to them. They've been pining for Bron for a while now.

[Moranis]

the Cavs were 76 and 20, not 76 and 10.

[winsomme]

Exactly...Orlando had their number, end of story. Not the most sensational news, but its the only news to me really worth noting about the whole thing.

ORL may have had their number, but i think as we showed, they aren't unbeatable.

CLE just wasn't ready for a tough, tough series like that. Just look at the difference in play between a guy like DWest and Mo.

Mo did lots of talking and DWest did the playing. If more guys on CLE did what Delonte was doing, they could have won that series.

[Donoghus]

Exactly...Orlando had their number, end of story. Not the most sensational news, but its the only news to me really worth noting about the whole thing.

ORL may have had their number, but i think as we showed, they aren't unbeatable.

CLE just wasn't ready for a tough, tough series like that. Just look at the difference in play between a guy like DWest and Mo.

Mo did lots of talking and DWest did the playing. If more guys on CLE did what Delonte was doing, they could have won that series.

Yeah, I think Delonte is one of the few Cavs that came out of that series without really tarnishing himself at all. 

[winsomme]

Exactly...Orlando had their number, end of story. Not the most sensational news, but its the only news to me really worth noting about the whole thing.

ORL may have had their number, but i think as we showed, they aren't unbeatable.

CLE just wasn't ready for a tough, tough series like that. Just look at the difference in play between a guy like DWest and Mo.

Mo did lots of talking and DWest did the playing. If more guys on CLE did what Delonte was doing, they could have won that series.

Yeah, I think Delonte is one of the few Cavs that came out of that series without really tarnishing himself at all. 

AT ALL! So proud of Delonte. Even in that game 6, Miller noted it.... DWest was the only guy still going after it.

[Bankshot]

All this stuff about Cleveland being too cocky and Orlando having their number is true, but the reason they lost is because Orlando is just a better team.  Simple as that.  Cleveland doesn't have the talent that Orlando has. 

[indeedproceed]

Ah Winsomme, we disagree again. My morning was pretty boring so far anyways...

I hear the point you're making, but basically don't agree.

I think CLEs hubris was part of their problem. It put them in panic mode when that series got tough. and they simply weren't prepared for it.

Remember that quite a few of the guys on this CLE team went to the NBA finals in 2007. They may not have 'won anything' but they've been around the block, and they've been whooped, and they've won last second games. I don't think panic had much to do with it, in fact, I think more than anything their 'hubris' or confidence (not the same thing, I know) helped them avoid panic. I don't think Cleveland thought they were going to have a possibility of losing the series until the last 10 mins of game 6.

It just seems to me that a more fair way of describing Cleveland is that they are a team constructed to defeat the 2007-2008 Boston Celtics, and in the end they had to be able to beat the 2008-2009 Magic, if that makes sense.

A lot of guys missed shots they were making all season, and to me that can be attributed in part to the panic that quickly set in once they realized how tough ORL was going to be to beat.

Well it wasn't just Cleveland. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce missed a lot of shots they usually make during the regular season too. So did Eddie House.

The magic played pretty good perimeter defense throughout the series against us, and likewise against Mo Williams (who I don't think was really an All-Star anyways) and company.

I think the Magic found some playoff defense mojo and locked down on the wings, and it showed in both series.  

As for Bron, I thought a  quote Barry Melrose used this morning was pretty right on. "Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it."

Bron is an otherworldly player, but has some serious growing up to do. It wasn't just his behavior after the game, but the next day too.

To still be so certain of his actions and to wear that Yankees doing. He just hasn't put that aspect of what he means to the game together yet.

HIs play was consistent and as you say, otherworldly. I think that maybe while the Cavs role players might have gotten frustrated, remember they went 2-1 at home. They lost one game by 1 point, won one game by 1, and one game by 10. That was the difference, the magic were 3-0 at home, and the Cavs were 2-1. One close game goes the other way, its not like the Cavs just packed it in.

On a side note though, how pathetic is that we (I also noticed it) took a minute to denote what kind of hat Lebron is wearing at a press conference held outside of a practice facility? I mean lord, what kind of strange fascination do we have with this guy? "He was wearing a NY Hat"?

the Cavs were 76 and 20, not 76 and 10.

Thanks, changed.

[winsomme]

Ah Winsomme, we disagree again. My morning was pretty boring so far anyways...

I hear the point you're making, but basically don't agree.

I think CLEs hubris was part of their problem. It put them in panic mode when that series got tough. and they simply weren't prepared for it.

Remember that quite a few of the guys on this CLE team went to the NBA finals in 2007. They may not have 'won anything' but they've been around the block, and they've been whooped, and they've won last second games. I don't think panic had much to do with it, in fact, I think more than anything their 'hubris' or confidence (not the same thing, I know) helped them avoid panic. I don't think Cleveland thought they were going to have a possibility of losing the series until the last 10 mins of game 6.

It just seems to me that a more fair way of describing Cleveland is that they are a team constructed to defeat the 2007-2008 Boston Celtics, and in the end they had to be able to beat the 2008-2009 Magic, if that makes sense.

A lot of guys missed shots they were making all season, and to me that can be attributed in part to the panic that quickly set in once they realized how tough ORL was going to be to beat.

Well it wasn't just Cleveland. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce missed a lot of shots they usually make during the regular season too. So did Eddie House.

The magic played pretty good perimeter defense throughout the series against us, and likewise against Mo Williams (who I don't think was really an All-Star anyways) and company.

I think the Magic found some playoff defense mojo and locked down on the wings, and it showed in both series.  

I agree with you about ORLs defense. They definitely stepped it up in the playoffs.

but I remember a point early in the series when they were showing those TO segments. SVG was addressing his team and he said something like "They haven't been here yet (close game at the end). We have..."

ORL just handled the pressure of the series better than CLE did IMO. CLE experienced very little pressure all season long. They did a lot of celebrating and to me, it came back on them in this series because they just couldn't buckle down when they needed to.

[LB3533]

I think the media and a lot of people are being too hard on the Cavs and pumping up the Magic too much.

They had a bad series and the Magic had a great series.

The Magic are a flawed team as well, when their 3 point shots aren't falling.

Just think, Ray Allen shot like 33% and 19% from 3 point range in the series against the Magic.

We would have won that Magic series if Ray Allen shot 40% and 25% from 3 point range.

Had we had a bench, maybe Ray Allen doesn't need to give his soul in the Bulls series and had something left for the Magic series.

[Fafnir]

Ah Winsomme, we disagree again. My morning was pretty boring so far anyways...

I hear the point you're making, but basically don't agree.

I think CLEs hubris was part of their problem. It put them in panic mode when that series got tough. and they simply weren't prepared for it.

Remember that quite a few of the guys on this CLE team went to the NBA finals in 2007. They may not have 'won anything' but they've been around the block, and they've been whooped, and they've won last second games. I don't think panic had much to do with it, in fact, I think more than anything their 'hubris' or confidence (not the same thing, I know) helped them avoid panic. I don't think Cleveland thought they were going to have a possibility of losing the series until the last 10 mins of game 6.

It just seems to me that a more fair way of describing Cleveland is that they are a team constructed to defeat the 2007-2008 Boston Celtics, and in the end they had to be able to beat the 2008-2009 Magic, if that makes sense.

A lot of guys missed shots they were making all season, and to me that can be attributed in part to the panic that quickly set in once they realized how tough ORL was going to be to beat.

Well it wasn't just Cleveland. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce missed a lot of shots they usually make during the regular season too. So did Eddie House.

The magic played pretty good perimeter defense throughout the series against us, and likewise against Mo Williams (who I don't think was really an All-Star anyways) and company.

I think the Magic found some playoff defense mojo and locked down on the wings, and it showed in both series.  

I agree with you about ORLs defense. They definitely stepped it up in the playoffs.

but I remember a point early in the series when they were showing those TO segments. SVG was addressing his team and he said something like "They haven't been here yet (close game at the end). We have..."

ORL just handled the pressure of the series better than CLE did IMO. CLE experienced very little pressure all season long. They did a lot of celebrating and to me, it came back on them in this series because they just couldn't buckle down when they needed to.

They were the best defensive team during the regular season, "stepping up" would imply they improved somewhat in the playoffs. I'm not sure that is the case.

[cordobes]

They were the best defensive team during the regular season, "stepping up" would imply they improved somewhat in the playoffs. I'm not sure that is the case.

Me neither. The fans perception of the Orlando's defence is probably "the 08/09 misconception of the season". I'd like to have the patient to collect everything that was said about their defence in this blog throughout the year.

[the TRUTH]

Good points by all of you. Just wanted to add my own two cents as well.

I really thought that whole "Mo Williams should be an All Star" rant by the Cavs was silly. Both Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo were having outstanding seasons, both were DEFENDING CHAMPIONS, and neither one was originally selected either. Further, at that time, the Celtics and Cavs were virtually tied for the best record - it wasn't like the Cavs were way ahead of everyone else. How LeBron, Mo and their coaching staff actually thought Mo deserved it over those two when he'd never won a thing was a complete joke to me.

And as for blasting the Cavs now that they lost, it reminds me of what they say about NFL quarterbacks: you will get too much praise when your team wins, and too much criticism when your team loses. The '08 Celtics played their butts off, wanted it more than everyone else, and had fun doing it. But they were respectable. They didn't make a mockery of the game, they didn't play the air guitar on the bench, they didn't dance on the bench, or take "family pictures" like the Cavs did. In other words, if you're gonna put yourselves out there like that, you better be able to handle the heat.

LeBron is an amazing player, no doubt. But I've gotten a feeling for awhile now that he's watched way too much Sportscenter and believes his own press. Because Stuart Scott and the gang were already handing the '09 title to the Cavs before the All Star Break, I think LeBron and his team let that get to their heads, and started believing their own press. Add to that the fact that the officials give the Cavs whatever they want, and I think they really felt entitled to win the title. Just look at the disbelief on their faces when someone would actually call a foul on them!

A perfect example is the end of that regular season game in Indy, when there were two consecutive fouls - one on each team - on nearly identical plays. All NBA fans want is consistency when it comes to officiating. Well finally the officials got it right, but the Cavs wanted to get the call on both ends. Mike Brown had no reason to be upset, considering his team had just gotten the exact same call in their favor, but he WENT NUTS. And then still constantly has the balls to refer to his team as a "no-excuse team." Wow.

Another thing, LeBron often refers to his "supporting cast," talks about needing more help, etc. Honestly, I played pro football, and if any of my teammates ever called me part of their "supporting cast" or said they needed more "help," our entire team would have kicked his butt. It's one thing for the media to say it, but for an individual player to actually say it, that's crossing the line.

Further, LeBron referred several times to his game-winner against Orlando in Game 2 as a "great shot." It certainly was, but I doubt Jordan, Bird or Magic ever would have called their own shot great.

Lastly, by saying that LeBron is just so competitive that he couldn't dare shake Orlando's hands or appear at the press conference is an insult to all the great players before him. Pierce, Ray Allen, KG - those guys all shook Orlando's hands after Game 7. Are they not as competitive as LeBron? What about Bird, Jordan, Magic, etc? Those guys weren't as competitive as LeBron? LeBron has special basketball etiquette rules that only apply to him, and not anyone else in the history of the NBA?

Please...