Is there any doubt Stern wants the Cavs in the Finals?

[guava_wrench]

If the Magic lost that last game by a point, the tech on Howard that was reascended, would the game now be tied? Oh wait the Magic would have won that game in regulation!

The NBA wouldn't have been rescinded in that situation, because of the controversy it would have caused.  It's the same reason Rondo didn't get a flagrant handed to him after smacking Brad Miller.  If they gave him a flagrant after the fact, the Bulls would have technically won the game.

I'm hoping this is a joke and that your memory isn't this bad. The league admitted a missed call that determined a game already in the playoffs, I believe in the Dallas series.

Perhaps the reasoning you provide is what you would do in that position?

[fairweatherfan]

If the Magic lost that last game by a point, the tech on Howard that was reascended, would the game now be tied? Oh wait the Magic would have won that game in regulation!

The NBA wouldn't have been rescinded in that situation, because of the controversy it would have caused.  It's the same reason Rondo didn't get a flagrant handed to him after smacking Brad Miller.  If they gave him a flagrant after the fact, the Bulls would have technically won the game.

They wouldn't have technically won the game, since there's no way of knowing if the replacement FT shooter hits the shots, or if Chicago scores on the ensuing possession.  What they would've had would be a great case for filing a protest to have the last few seconds of the game replayed with the "correct" flagrant call made.  That's the main reason the NBA was never going to upgrade it:  it called the outcome into doubt (though not in the way you're describing) and opened up the door to an important playoff game's outcome being under legitimate protest.

It's different in the situation guava describes, where Wunderlich didn't call the attempted intentional foul.  There's no grounds for appeal on a call that wasn't made.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and the Cavs missed the FT after the rescinded Howard T, so the impact on the game was negligible.

[anotherbanner]

James dives shoulder first into the defender and gets the call to go his way?? Stern and his incompetent band of refs(?) certainly are trying to fix things and Cleveland still can't get it done.

so in your conspiracy theory, the refs aren't allowed to fix the game in overtime, only regulation right.

Because, as we all know, they fixed the entire game to give the cavs a shot at overtime....but then they somehow forgot how to call the game for clev in the 5 minute overtime.

interesting...so the fix is in, but if you can last till overtime, the ref's forget the entire plan. good info to know.

I can see it now

Stern: "CURSE YOU ORLANDO, YOU KNOW MY GAME FIXING POWERS ONLY WORK IN REGULATION!!! MY PLANS ARE RUINED!!"

I DID say that the refs were trying to fix it but Cleveland still can't get it done-OT or otherwise.

Why would the ref's call 2 and 1's for orlando in the overtime after going to massive trouble to fix the game under this crazy theory again?

and in addition why wouldn't they call the foul for lebron driving that he griped about to the ref for that would have put him on the line and instead let the magic get a steal on critical possession in OT?

It's obvious, but they can't be blatently obvious. But... whatever... I'm just offering my 2 cents.

I think 2 cents might be overly generous on that last comment.

****.

[ACF]

Is there any doubt Stern wants
Weinman in the Association?

[Finkelskyhook]

There is no doubt whatsoever who Stern has wanted coming out of the east from the beginning of this season.  The officials tried to will the Cavs to victory in game 4.  The Magic will have to shoot about 65% to overcome the obvious calls the messiah will get in the next two games.  It's a [dang]ed disgrace how the messiah is getting officiated and it totally discredits the NBA game.

It's obvious, but they can't be blatently obvious.  Really??  I have no idea how anybody can watch the messiah's games and say that with a straight face.  You don't think that pushoff on Pietrus by the messiah near the end of regulation in perfect view of the official was blatantly obvious?  Or Varajao's clearout at the end of regulation?

[MMacOH]

So how do the Messiah's calls compare to say some big tall center guy from Orlando who can throw elbows with regularity, camp out in the key on every possession, set illegal screens on EVERY screen.

Face it, the officiating goes both ways. 

[Finkelskyhook]

It really doesn't when the game is on the line, Mac.  Or at any other time.  Howard gets an occasional traveling call.  An occasional foul called...Especially if he's contesting a messiah shot.  I would love to get an exact number of times traveling has been called on the messiah this season.  I'll bet that you might not need one hand to count that number. Like Pierce, the messiah travels almost every time he touches the ball.  Paul gets called occasionally.  The messiah doesn't.  3-4 even 5 steps. 

I agree that Howard's elbows are Mutomboesque.  But the timely technicals that Howard is getting looks like the officials have been ordered to eliminate him.  The messiah argues literally every call against the Cavs with more intensity than anybody else on the court and has probably been issued a technical about as often as he's been called for traveling.

[guava_wrench]

It really doesn't when the game is on the line, Mac.  Or at any other time.  Howard gets an occasional traveling call.  An occasional foul called...Especially if he's contesting a messiah shot.  I would love to get an exact number of times traveling has been called on the messiah this season.  I'll bet that you might not need one hand to count that number. Like Pierce, the messiah travels almost every time he touches the ball.  Paul gets called occasionally.  The messiah doesn't.  3-4 even 5 steps. 

I agree that Howard's elbows are Mutomboesque.  But the timely technicals that Howard is getting looks like the officials have been ordered to eliminate him.  The messiah argues literally every call against the Cavs with more intensity than anybody else on the court and has probably been issued a technical about as often as he's been called for traveling.

I remember LeBron getting called for a travel on a move at the end of one of the games in this series.

LeBron also isn't bad at all when it comes to arguing calls. Sure he complains and makes faces like Pierce, but he doesn't go after the ref like say Perk or Rasheed, or even Nene in the last game. Those guys badger the refs nonstop and look like they are trying to intimidate the ref. That's when they get techs.

It's not complaining about calls that gets you techs. It's how you do it - what words you use and how persistent you are.

[star18]

"so time of game, the era the game was played in, and the fans perception has to come into play now?"
"It's the same thing. Guys go postal or play dirty. Now we just don't allow it, but the players are the same. McHale's play was one of the all time most dirty, but it turned out to be a difference maker."
"The plays were both very similar, no matter what era they took place during. Cheap shots taken out of frustration during a game. To argue that they were different acts merely because of the date they occurred is silly."

I don't agree. Yes they were both cheap shots but there was much different circumstances in both plays. 1.The Horry/Nash game was with 16 seconds left Suns up 3 and the ball they had already won the game. The McHale/Rambis game was in the 3rd Qtr with the outcome yet to be decided.
2.The Horry/Nash play had the Spurs 8th guy go after the Suns #1 guy. The McHale/Rambis play had the Celtics #2 guy go after the Lakers #9 guy. That's a big difference there, it wasn't Rambis going after McHale or Bird or Tim Duncan going after James Jones.
3.The rules were different in the 1980's and players had huge fights and scuffles with more regulartity and lesser penalties than in 2007. The NBA didn't make a rule for flagrant fouls until the early 1990's so of course what era the game was played in influences the difference between the two plays.
4.While McHale could have been suspended for the next game and given a flagrant, those weren't the rules back then so the play did little to gain an advantage for the Celtics besides making a big play to show the Celtics were playing more physical. The Horry play gave the Spurs a huge advantage because it took Amare and Diaw, who basically did nothing, out of a Game 5 home game in Phoenix which the Suns lost 88-85.
Also, the NBA got the suspensions wrong because there is clear footage of Bowen & Duncan about 4 steps onto the court during a play in the same game in the 2nd QTR and neither of those players were suspended.

[star18]

Also the McHale/Rambis play proved to be a difference maker only because of how the Celtics played the rest of the game it wasn't like the NBA suspended or took players away from the Lakers.  The Horry/Nash play proved to be a difference maker because of what the NBA did to suspend Amare and Diaw in Game 6 at Phoenix.

[Finkelskyhook]

I remember LeBron getting called for a travel on a move at the end of one of the games in this series.

That was probably the travel call that necessitated that a person use his second hand to count the number of times the messiah has been called this season.  Guava, I'm going to subject myself to tomorrow's game for just the first and fourth quarter and count the number of times the messiah doesn't travel with the ball.  The pushoff against Pietrus made Jordan's pushoff on Russell look pedestrian.  

I don't know how anybody can even debate this.  It's morbidly obvious.

McHale would have been suspended a minimum of 5 games in today's NBA.

Horry didn't deserve to be suspended.  Ric Flair's flops were more authentic than Nash's on that play.  

[star18]

The rules were different in 1984 than 2007. McHale 5 games and Horry 0 games makes no sense whatsoever. Both plays were cheap shots, McHale clotheslined Rambis and Horry bodychecked Nash. The type of play was the same but the outcome and the circumstances were different. No way Horry doesn't get suspended on a play like that and if Horry gets no suspension how can Amare and Diaw be suspended for Game 5, makes no sense.

[LB3533]

Nearly half, maybe more, of Superman's blocks are goal tends.

[star18]

duh, and he's been called for goaltending on every one of those plays