Trading Ray Allen debate (merged)

[bleedingreeninfla]

Getting Tayshaun Prince would be HUGE.

[bleedingreeninfla]

Getting Tayshaun Prince would be huge.  If a player like Ray has to go, getting another UConn shooter would be a suitable replacement.  Stuckey may not be Rondo, but with Doc's teachings to a coachable talented young player we may see some flashes. And, from what i can tell......the money works.

[RonJohn]

I would really love to get a peek at what has been/is offered for Ray. I gotta say, his value is just gonna go up and up as the trade deadline gets closer during the season.  The economy really has teams scurrying to SHED payroll. Although I love Ray as a comsumate professional, shooter and player, he has reached the point where most two guards breakdown and the wear and tear is starting to show (Orlando series). I gotta think that for almost 20 million coming off the cap they would be able to get two great young pieces to that can contribute and keep this team at the peak for years. Danny has always said that he is willing to trade everyone and that Red made a mistake by holding onto the Big Three too long. I think he is right. You gotta take emotion out of the equation. 

[wdleehi]

I would really love to get a peek at what has been/is offered for Ray. I gotta say, his value is just gonna go up and up as the trade deadline gets closer during the season.  The economy really has teams scurrying to SHED payroll. Although I love Ray as a comsumate professional, shooter and player, he has reached the point where most two guards breakdown and the wear and tear is starting to show (Orlando series). I gotta think that for almost 20 million coming off the cap they would be able to get two great young pieces to that can contribute and keep this team at the peak for years. Danny has always said that he is willing to trade everyone and that Red made a mistake by holding onto the Big Three too long. I think he is right. You gotta take emotion out of the equation. 

While his value in a trade will be highest then, I don't want to see him traded then unless his play has dropped.

If he is to be traded, do it in the offseason so the team can prepare the year with his replacements.

[vjcsmoke]

The problem is that I don't really see any trades for Ray that would make the team better.  And trading Ray would leave a gaping hole at SG.  Walker isn't ready and neither is Giddens.  Tony Allen has never lived up to his potential either.  If Ray Allen gets moved it better be a blockbuster deal that upgrades the C's chances at a championship.  Otherwise, I just don't see it happening.

[Cman]

The problem is that I don't really see any trades for Ray that would make the team better.  And trading Ray would leave a gaping hole at SG.  Walker isn't ready and neither is Giddens.  Tony Allen has never lived up to his potential either.  If Ray Allen gets moved it better be a blockbuster deal that upgrades the C's chances at a championship.  Otherwise, I just don't see it happening.

We don't necessarily need a better player than Ray in return for trading Ray.  If the options are (a) entering the 09-10 season with the roster that we ended the 08-09 season with (which is possible if the Cs management are financially constrained) or (b) trading Ray for a serviceable SG starter and bench pieces that upgrade our current bench, then you have to seriously consider (b).

For example: would I trade Ray for Hinrich+Miller straight up?  Yes probably.  Hinrich is a downgrade from Ray at guard, but Miller makes our bench much, much stronger. 

[Clutch Theory]

The reason everybody so quick to think we should jump ship on Ray Allen is because people think he is getting old. They say he has weary legs, has maybe a couple years left in the tank of him being effective. I disagree with that statement in the Playoffs. The Media is saying we all say the future of Ray Allen in the Series against the Magic. That those shooting woes would continue to happen as long as he continues to play. Evidently that man forgot Ray Allen happened to scorch the Bulls for 51 points the series previous.

With that being said he is Unrestricted in 2010 meaning we have no possible way of signing him, and the Celtics are thinking why would we? He has a huge salary, he is getting older and older, and will soon become a proven role player off the bench. If we have the chance to ship him in the Off-Season for a nice young star, why arn't we going to do it?

I think this is completely wrong, and if the Celtics do end up trading him.. I will be vastly disappointed.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth #20]

If the goal is to get a lot worse next year and have no chance at winning a title, then I think the Celtics should trade Jesus. If the Celtics want to win another championship then they cannot trade Jesus. I could swear this blog is made up of Laker fans because I've seen about 10 billion trade Ray Allen posts. If you trade Ray Allen you get a lot worse, but no one seems to care, they just keep spewing garage.

[thirstyboots18]

Just a thought on the importance of Ray Allen...quite possibly he is the deciding factor in the  signing of both Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace with the Boston Celtics...

[Cman]

If the goal is to get a lot worse next year and have no chance at winning a title, then I think the Celtics should trade Jesus. If the Celtics want to win another championship then they cannot trade Jesus. I could swear this blog is made up of Laker fans because I've seen about 10 billion trade Ray Allen posts. If you trade Ray Allen you get a lot worse, but no one seems to care, they just keep spewing garage.

This isn't quite right.  There were some (myself included) who thought the management would be reluctant to use the MLE to get bench help.  In such a situation,trading Ray Allen made a lot of sense.  Of course, that course of action doesn't make sense now.

[As a side note, not only was I wrong about management but also I was wrong about Gary Tanguay  ]

Just a thought on the importance of Ray Allen...quite possibly he is the deciding factor in the  signing of both Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace with the Boston Celtics...

TP great point.

[SSFan V]

BBS made a great point last night

Well we also have to remember that KG PAUL AND RAY were all at Sheeds house when the C's made the visit so I really doubt that one of them will go anyware this season.

Also Ray really came in handy when it comes to Sheeds wife cuz she is really involved with the community so I really doubt he will be moved this season.

Ray was part of the recruiting process, that wouldn't have been the case if they were planning on trading him.

[jordb2k5]

I am curious and not sure about the rules of this and how it would work so I'm asking.  Is it possible to trade Ray Allen to a team get some good players, he negotiates a buyout and then comes back.  I know this is done and he has to wait 30 days before he can return, my question is how it impacts him during the summer.  My understanding is we can only renounce his rights in order for his money to not count against the cap and at that point we can only sign him to the minimum is that true? 

If that is true wouldn't it be easier to resign and get more talent in the process??

[Fan from VT]

I am curious and not sure about the rules of this and how it would work so I'm asking.  Is it possible to trade Ray Allen to a team get some good players, he negotiates a buyout and then comes back.  I know this is done and he has to wait 30 days before he can return, my question is how it impacts him during the summer.  My understanding is we can only renounce his rights in order for his money to not count against the cap and at that point we can only sign him to the minimum is that true? 

If that is true wouldn't it be easier to resign and get more talent in the process??

well, technically it's possible, but why/how would it happen?
-It would only happen if a team really wanted to get rid of a lot of long-term contracts, and didn't want any players in return (so they'd be willing to buy out Ray)
-Ray would have to be willing to lose about 16 million dollars, because as mentioned above, a team wouldn't trade for him and then pay him a bunch of money just to not play for them, and because we're over the cap, he'd only get the vet min from us.

but technically, you can trade a player, have him be cut or bought out, then sign him again with any available funds (MLE, Vet min, LLE, or cap room) after a certain period of time. We did it with GP a few years ago, McDyess did it last year, etc. But each time, they were taking a minimal buyout, but Ray's in line to make about 18 mil and not many sane people are going to leave 16 mill of that on the table.

Additionally, "renouncing rights" doesn't have anything to do with players already under contract. For example, shawn marion is a free agent for toronto right now, so toronto has the right (bird rights) to go over the cap to sign him to an extension. Because they have that right, his estimated salary is counting toward the cap on a "cap hold," to prevent toronto from signing a free agent (hedo turkoglu), then turning around and using bird rights to also sign Marion. What they have to do is renounce their bird rights for Marion, so that his hold no longer counts against the cap. Then they'd be able to sign Turkoglu, but they would no longer have the bird rights with which to sign marion. But in this case, Marion does not have a contract with Toronto. You can't renounce the rights of a player already under contract and get out of having to pay him or having him count toward the cap.

[RussellMVP]

Ray Alen should probably be traded for a sign and trade of lamar odom

[jv2764]

Prince has a bad contract.