isn't it likely ortiz was a steroid user?

[cornbreadsmart]

i don't follow baseball too much but this guy who was awesome can't catch up to  fastball all of a sudden. now ofcourse it's possible it's a lot of things but is'nt steroids the most likely? i don't even hear the speculation out there. have i missed it? are they talking about him and steroids on the radio?

[Roy Hobbs]

There's definitely been speculation.  I wouldn't say it's the "most likely" scenario, but it's certainly a possibility.

[cornbreadsmart]

but why is it not the most likely? does'nt it make the most sense?

[Roy Hobbs]

but why is it not the most likely? does'nt it make the most sense?

Well, before the steroid era, lots of players started to decline when they got up around 32 or 33, where Ortiz is now.  Plus, coming off of an injury plagued year -- including injuries to his wrist -- it's no surprise that Ortiz is struggling a little bit to find some rhythm.

I mean, I think it's important that we not assume that every player that has a slump or struggles recovering from injury is a steroids user.  It could very well be that Ortiz was using, but there are other explanations, as well.

[cornbreadsmart]

ah gotcha. thanks. i sure hope the nba is'nt full of this. i fear it.

[hpantazo]

but why is it not the most likely? does'nt it make the most sense?

Well, before the steroid era, lots of players started to decline when they got up around 32 or 33, where Ortiz is now.  Plus, coming off of an injury plagued year -- including injuries to his wrist -- it's no surprise that Ortiz is struggling a little bit to find some rhythm.

I mean, I think it's important that we not assume that every player that has a slump or struggles recovering from injury is a steroids user.  It could very well be that Ortiz was using, but there are other explanations, as well.

excellent point Roy, in fact, many players in the pre-steroid era declined at Ortiz's age, its only since the steroid era that you see more and more guys producing extremely well even into their late 30's.

[MBz]

either he did steroids, or he just started eating a lot.

[wil]

either he did steroids, or he just started eating a lot.

There's no doubt in my mind that Ortiz was a user, I'm a Yankee fan, but what's up with the last name in this photo.  Is that really david ortiz??

[crownsy]

or, something that hasn't been mentioned, he's older than advertised.

I agree the steroid questions are valid, but given the Dominican's reputation for fudging ages, shouldn't we also consider he's a year or two older than his listed age?

[furball]

I don't think Steroids is behind Ortiz's problems.  I'm not saying he wasn't a user, Hell I would love for him to get outed (I'm a Yankee fan), it's just that there seems to be something else to this slump.

When the steroid guys stopped using, they didn't fall apart like this.  Their numbers came down but they were still servicable players.  Mostly they went from 50 home run guys to 20 and 320 hitters to 250.  

Look at guys like Jason Giambi, or Garry Sheffield.  THey are still producing, just not like they were.  

I've never seen a hitter, steroids or not, loose it like Ortiz has.  Usually a guy will lose his power or his ability to hit for aveage but not both.  Guys like Bobby Abrue who has toatally lost his power but is still a solid hitter or guys like the afformentioned Giambi who still hits 20 out a year.  Usually when a slugger slumps he can still crush a pitchers mistake or guess right on a fastball and hit it out.  Ortiz isn't doing this.  Look at A-Rod, until yesturday he was batting under .200 but he still had 9 Homeruns.  His timming has been off but he has still been able to crush bad pitches.  For a guy to lose both his power and his ability to hit is wierd.  

I think there has to be something else to it.  Maybe the wrist just isn't right and he's lost all of his bat speed or something.  I don't know but I hope he never figures it out.  

[moiso]

He was pretty good last year until he hurt his wrist.  The steroid tests are the same now as they were then.

[MBz]

either he did steroids, or he just started eating a lot.

There's no doubt in my mind that Ortiz was a user, I'm a Yankee fan, but what's up with the last name in this photo.  Is that really david ortiz??

Yes, Papi used to go by Arias.  His full name is David Américo Ortiz Arias.

[PaulPierce34G]

You could say it has to do with either the potential lying of his age, his wrist injury.  It could be anything.  I'm not saying steroids is out of the question.  With so many stars having been caught, it basically means no one is excluded from this scandal.

If he didn't do them, I'd say this slump is a product of his age or his injury...the loss of his timing.

However, it isn't far fetched to believe he has done them in the past.  The look of the trading card, his physique has changed over time.  I mean, he could have started eating more, trained to gain some weight, but who knows.

If he has done steroids, that would explain his gain, and also could explain his injury.  If  his wrist muscles sliced through his wrist tendons, that could definitely be a sign of steroid use. Tendons weaken when steroids are used, only muscles get stronger.

Not saying this is what has happened, but it is a possibility.  He could've used them, is off now because so many stars have been caught, and his real ability is starting to show.

[JAM]

Papi was juiced. 

His body changed drastically once he came to Boston.

His joint injuries are common PED influenced injury.

Manny was juiced, hard to believe that Papi was along for the ride - getting similar numbers.

His numbers declined dramatically once they started stricter testing.

It's a shame, but it's the truth.

[Brendan]

Baseball history is littered with guys that had a nice run and then dropped off. Given his propensity to gain weight, his wrist injuries, and age - I think this drop off is perfectly explainable without factoring in steroids. On the other hand, given his prime overlapped with much of the steroid era, and his decline with the start of testing, speculation about him being a steroid user is understandable.

I would caution one thing - much of the "pop" science about steroids is misinformed. A prime example is old friend BSG. His "he fits the pattern" line of reasoning, is based on guesses on his part (and probably some of his friends) - that are based as much on scare videos he saw when he was in HS as much as anything.

Without getting some expert discussion of what kind of steroids (or more likely other advanced PEDs) were  used, and how, what training was going on and what a player is doing now, talking in generalities is foolish.