Author Topic: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)  (Read 34477 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #165 on: May 19, 2009, 02:57:39 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
I posted this elsewhere, but then realized this may be a better place for it. . .

Here's a question: There is one type of the player the Celtics lack (well, excluding Bill Walker, but Doc doesn't seem to like him all that much) and have lacked ever since the beginning of the Pierce era -- the athletic, exciting, jump out of the gym swing player.  Guys who are not necessarily starters, but can provide huge boosts off the bench when they are playing well and matchup problems for opponents.  Think Mickael Pietrus or Trevor Ariza.  Do Ainge and Doc just not see value in these types of players?



They keep shoving TA down my throat, who was supposed to be all those things, so i think it's not that they dislike the type of player, but rather the player has to be able to do more than dunk (like gerald wasen't able to do)

As to them not liking walker, i think thats too early to tell, he got more run than some rookies under doc near the end. the real test will be next year, and to see if doc works him into the rotation or not.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #166 on: May 19, 2009, 03:13:56 PM »

Offline WedmanIsMyHero

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 410
  • Tommy Points: 22
Well, another way to think about this may be that the Celtics aren't great at *picking and evaluating* that type of player, i.e. to use your phrasing they keep trying to "shove" TA down our throats. . . .

I posted this elsewhere, but then realized this may be a better place for it. . .

Here's a question: There is one type of the player the Celtics lack (well, excluding Bill Walker, but Doc doesn't seem to like him all that much) and have lacked ever since the beginning of the Pierce era -- the athletic, exciting, jump out of the gym swing player.  Guys who are not necessarily starters, but can provide huge boosts off the bench when they are playing well and matchup problems for opponents.  Think Mickael Pietrus or Trevor Ariza.  Do Ainge and Doc just not see value in these types of players?



They keep shoving TA down my throat, who was supposed to be all those things, so i think it's not that they dislike the type of player, but rather the player has to be able to do more than dunk (like gerald wasen't able to do)

As to them not liking walker, i think thats too early to tell, he got more run than some rookies under doc near the end. the real test will be next year, and to see if doc works him into the rotation or not.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #167 on: May 19, 2009, 03:26:50 PM »

Offline QuinielaBox

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1383
  • Tommy Points: 139
Go all out and win the **** title next year. That is what I bet happens. That is the Celtics pattern since the Bill Russell era.

In 1975 we lost to Washington 4-2 in the ECF. That summer we added Charlie Scott for Paul Westfall - Title in 1976 (and unknownst to me at the time my only appearence on U-Tube).

In 1982 and 1983 we came up short and traded Rick Robey for Dennis Johnson. 1984 is another victory cigar.

In 1985, Maxwell was traded for Bill Walton. We all had a memorable 1986 campaign.

2008 brought us the Garnett - Pierce - Ray Allen deal. 2009 brought us injuries and attrition. We have expiring contracts to dangle out there. There is a supply of talented, hungry veterans looking for glories last shot. Danny and Wyc must strike this summer before chaos hits.
Wins are few, times are hard. Here is your bleeping St Patricks Day Card.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #168 on: May 19, 2009, 03:29:26 PM »

Offline Redz

  • Punner
  • Global Moderator
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31742
  • Tommy Points: 3845
  • Yup
I'm guaranteeing a Celtics Championship next year.

OK, that's not worth the virtual paper it's written on.

But my magic mojo gut feeling says it's going to be a special year.

Yup

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #169 on: May 19, 2009, 03:31:43 PM »

Offline QuinielaBox

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1383
  • Tommy Points: 139
I'm guaranteeing a Celtics Championship next year.

OK, that's not worth the virtual paper it's written on.

But my magic mojo gut feeling says it's going to be a special year.



Well hopefully, Danny will do his job and get us the players to make your guarentee a reality.
Wins are few, times are hard. Here is your bleeping St Patricks Day Card.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #170 on: May 19, 2009, 03:37:25 PM »

Offline cordobes

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3556
  • Tommy Points: 576
  • Basketball is like chess, only without the dice
I posted this elsewhere, but then realized this may be a better place for it. . .

Here's a question: There is one type of the player the Celtics lack (well, excluding Bill Walker, but Doc doesn't seem to like him all that much) and have lacked ever since the beginning of the Pierce era -- the athletic, exciting, jump out of the gym swing player.  Guys who are not necessarily starters, but can provide huge boosts off the bench when they are playing well and matchup problems for opponents.  Think Mickael Pietrus or Trevor Ariza.  Do Ainge and Doc just not see value in these types of players?


  We've had thletic, exciting, jump out of the gym swing players. They've just not been the smartest players. Tony Allen, Ricky Davis, Gerald Green...

Yeps. And Pietrus and Ariza are different players; Pietrus played above his head versus us but he's closer to Tony Allen than to Ariza (who's an excellent player). Personally, I don't care for "exciting, jump out of the gym players".

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #171 on: May 19, 2009, 03:50:01 PM »

Offline cordobes

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3556
  • Tommy Points: 576
  • Basketball is like chess, only without the dice
Just a heads-up: Nachbar ended his contract with Dynamo Moscow, he's an unrestricted free-agent now. Personally, I'm not interested on him, but a propos, I'll paste here something I wrote in the comments section of a fanpost:

I believe the Celtics should look at the european leagues in the free-agency market. There are always some good players available to grab there. Off the top of my head: Will Bynum, Stephen Jackson, Bruce Bowen, Udonis Haslem, Anthony Parker, José Calderon, Andreas Nocioni, Luis Scola, Raja Bell, Nocioni, James Singleton; or in the past guys like Bill Laimbeer, PJ Brown, Mario Ellie, Antonio Davis, Darrell Armstront, etc.: all of them were free-agents in Europe before joining the NBA.

I'm pretty sure there are some players currently in Europe that are legit NBA rotation players. You can pick from guys with NBA experience like Childress, Delfino, Nachbar, Pargo, etc.; former NBA busts who have developed their games like Marcus Haislip or Rakocevic;  undrafted free-agents like Bourousis, McIntyre, Romain Sato, Austin Nichols; or guys who were drafted but are still to join the league, like Fran Vasquez, Andersen or Lorbek.

I think it's stupid to limit yourself to the current crop of NBA players; most of those guys (and others I didn't cite) are good enough to play in the NBA and maybe you can get them for cheaper.

IMO Andersen (drafted by Atlanta) would fit better than Vázquez (drafted by Orlando). Fran Vázquez has the physical tools to become a very good PF/C in the NBA (first off the bench or even a starter on a weak team), but unfortunately he is not smart enough. Additionally, he cannot speak English at all and I doubt he would be able to learn some.
On the contrary Andarsen is a really gifted played (although worse defender than Vázquez) who would fit well any NBA team.

Also Cabezas, the Spanish PG is looking for a chance in the NBA. He can be a decent back up if we dont sign Marbury.

I don't entirely disagree with your assessment of Vasquez and Andersen, but if I had to pick one to be on the Celtics' bench next season, my choice would be the Spaniard.

Vasquez can be the ultimate garbage man in the NBA. He has great size, he's very athletic (even for NBA standards), he can rebound, block shots, finish plays, run the floor, protect the rim and defend the post. Of course, he depends on the guard play to manufacture his offence and he's not the brightest shelf on the knife, but to play a minor role he has all the tools required. His mental toughness worries me a bit, especially considering that he may struggle in the first times (a team with another Spaniard in the team would surely be a better fit for him), but I think he's worth the risk - assuming he's willing to come over and that Orlando trades his rights (a long shot anyway).

Andersen is a better basketball player than Vasquez, especially on the offensive end of the floor. However, as a NBA prospect he's not as appealing, from my perspective. Andersen is extremely soft, a mediocre rebounder and a terrible defender. Even though you can always use a player as skilled as Andersen, from my point of view only a team that really needs a jump-shooting big (or a very weak team in need of scoring and play-makers) should consider him over Vasquez.

Yeah, I know about Cabezas but I'm not interested at all on him. To pick a 3rd PG out of Europe, he wouldn't even be in my top-10.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #172 on: May 19, 2009, 04:22:36 PM »

Offline Casperian

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3501
  • Tommy Points: 545
Sofoklis Schortsanitis FTW  ;D

He`s only 23, has the talent, and I´ve heard he´s in a much better shape than ever before.

What´s your opinion on him, cordobes?
In the summer of 2017, I predicted this team would not win a championship for the next 10 years.

3 down, 7 to go.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #173 on: May 19, 2009, 05:23:35 PM »

Offline cordobes

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3556
  • Tommy Points: 576
  • Basketball is like chess, only without the dice
Sofoklis Schortsanitis FTW  ;D

He`s only 23, has the talent, and I´ve heard he´s in a much better shape than ever before.

What´s your opinion on him, cordobes?

Haha, curiously I saw him yesterday, Eurosport was broadcasting Olympiacos game versus Maroussi and he was out there ballin'. Yeah, he's slimmer (although not in the best shape of his life), but he always loses 50 kgs every time he comes back for his "last chance". And with so many "last chances" he should have a negative weight by now. :P

Seriously now, it's a shame to see so much talented being wasted, but it's entirely his fault. A guy that could be interesting is his teammate Bourousis. Apparently 3 NBA teams are pursuing him: Spurs, Grizzlies and I forgot the other one.

Btw, the Greek League Finals start on Thursay, it's going to be a very interesting series.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #174 on: May 19, 2009, 05:34:17 PM »

Offline Jon

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6500
  • Tommy Points: 385
I'm guaranteeing a Celtics Championship next year.

OK, that's not worth the virtual paper it's written on.

But my magic mojo gut feeling says it's going to be a special year.



TP

I absolutely agree.  To me, even with Danny's poor job in putting a bench together, this team had the potential to be better than last year with improvements from Rondo and Perkins.  If he can get a backup center with size and a wing who can play a little defense, there's no reason why this team can't win #18 next year. 

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #175 on: May 19, 2009, 05:55:56 PM »

Offline Casperian

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3501
  • Tommy Points: 545
Sofoklis Schortsanitis FTW  ;D

He`s only 23, has the talent, and I´ve heard he´s in a much better shape than ever before.

What´s your opinion on him, cordobes?

Haha, curiously I saw him yesterday, Eurosport was broadcasting Olympiacos game versus Maroussi and he was out there ballin'. Yeah, he's slimmer (although not in the best shape of his life), but he always loses 50 kgs every time he comes back for his "last chance". And with so many "last chances" he should have a negative weight by now. :P

Seriously now, it's a shame to see so much talented being wasted, but it's entirely his fault. A guy that could be interesting is his teammate Bourousis. Apparently 3 NBA teams are pursuing him: Spurs, Grizzlies and I forgot the other one.

Btw, the Greek League Finals start on Thursay, it's going to be a very interesting series.

Thanks for your answer.

Tbh, I don´t follow european basketball as much as I follow the nba. I watch a few international games and inform myself about the top prospects, but that´s it. I´m just not a fan of any certain team in europe.

I always considered Shortsanitis to be the best big man talent in europe. It´s truly a shame. I think the Clippers should´ve brought him over when they drafted him. If you have a clear goal in front of you, it´s easier to work on yourself. As it is, he probably didn´t realize what a truly unique chance he had.
The thing is, there is probably no better team in the nba than the Celtics for his real "last chance". A team with KG, Pierce, Ray and Perk, with a big man coach like Clifford Ray, and a player with a similar background in BBD, would be the perfect environment for him, imo. I just don´t know if a contending team like the Celtics would be interested in a project with questionable work ethic.

I looked Bourousis up, and found a Youtube highlight clip. From what I´ve seen there, he´s pretty impressive. 6'11'', very fast for his size, strong, quick release, can hit the outside shot. Very interesting, indeed...
In the summer of 2017, I predicted this team would not win a championship for the next 10 years.

3 down, 7 to go.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #176 on: May 20, 2009, 05:03:34 PM »

Offline TheRev72

  • Kristaps Porzingis
  • Posts: 191
  • Tommy Points: 29
1.  Keep the starting 5.  (Duh.)

2.  Sign Rasheed Wallace for the MLE.  This takes care of our big man problem.  Garnett/Perkins/Wallace make for a solid 3 man rotation underneath, each getting a manageable 32 minutes per game.  Having Rasheed also gives the C's another shooter to put on the floor (in place of Perk) at the end of games.

3.  Sign & trade Big Baby for a backup wing player who is athletic and defends (unless Bill Walker can do the job - but he's probably a year or two away).  Baby has probably played himself into a contract that's probably more than he's worth to the Celtics.  If the C's can "sell" while his value is high, maybe they can get good value for him.

4.  Sign a backup point guard for the LLE (unless Pruitt can do the job).  Just someone who's reliable for 10 minutes or so behind Rondo.

That should provide the C's with a consistent 8-man rotation.  House can then come off the bench for shooting and to selectively diminish Ray Allen's minutes.  Scal can be the 10th-man/utility guy who can be used to shorten the bigs' minutes where needed.

5.  Resign Powe to the minimum while he rehabs.  I think the guy will be back.

That's my plan.  For now anyway.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #177 on: June 05, 2009, 05:57:36 PM »

Offline cordobes

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3556
  • Tommy Points: 576
  • Basketball is like chess, only without the dice
Sofoklis Schortsanitis FTW  ;D

He`s only 23, has the talent, and I´ve heard he´s in a much better shape than ever before.

What´s your opinion on him, cordobes?

Haha, curiously I saw him yesterday, Eurosport was broadcasting Olympiacos game versus Maroussi and he was out there ballin'. Yeah, he's slimmer (although not in the best shape of his life), but he always loses 50 kgs every time he comes back for his "last chance". And with so many "last chances" he should have a negative weight by now. :P

Seriously now, it's a shame to see so much talented being wasted, but it's entirely his fault. A guy that could be interesting is his teammate Bourousis. Apparently 3 NBA teams are pursuing him: Spurs, Grizzlies and I forgot the other one.

Btw, the Greek League Finals start on Thursay, it's going to be a very interesting series.

Thanks for your answer.

Tbh, I don´t follow european basketball as much as I follow the nba. I watch a few international games and inform myself about the top prospects, but that´s it. I´m just not a fan of any certain team in europe.

I always considered Shortsanitis to be the best big man talent in europe. It´s truly a shame. I think the Clippers should´ve brought him over when they drafted him. If you have a clear goal in front of you, it´s easier to work on yourself. As it is, he probably didn´t realize what a truly unique chance he had.
The thing is, there is probably no better team in the nba than the Celtics for his real "last chance". A team with KG, Pierce, Ray and Perk, with a big man coach like Clifford Ray, and a player with a similar background in BBD, would be the perfect environment for him, imo. I just don´t know if a contending team like the Celtics would be interested in a project with questionable work ethic.

I looked Bourousis up, and found a Youtube highlight clip. From what I´ve seen there, he´s pretty impressive. 6'11'', very fast for his size, strong, quick release, can hit the outside shot. Very interesting, indeed...

Bourousis update:

http://www.e-tipos.com/newsitem?id=93604

It seems the Spurs have made him a $10.5M/3 years, Popovich talked to him in the Euroleague F4 and Parker called him to convince him to sign in SA. Ainge should pull a Pops, think outside the box and talk to this guy. For $3M/year he's a bargain.