Author Topic: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)  (Read 34477 times)

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Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #150 on: May 18, 2009, 08:02:43 PM »

Offline LB3533

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Here are some names that I am going to throw out there.

Players

*ZaZa Pachulia FA
*Grant Hill FA
*Ronald Murray FA
*Linton Johnson FA
Aarron Gray FA
*James Singleton FA
*Chris Anderson FA
Anthony Carter FA
Walter Hermann FA
*Antonia McDyess FA
CJ Watson FA
Rob Kurz FA
Luther Head FA
*Von Wafer FA
*Rasho Nesterovic FA
Chris Mihm FA
*Quinton Ross FA
*Jamario Moon FA
*Ramon Sessions FA
Ryan Bowen FA
Melvin Ely FA
*Chris Wilcox FA
Malik Rose FA
Desmond Mason FA
*Kareem Rush FA
*Matt Barnes FA
Stromile Swift FA
*Bobby Jackson FA
*Drew Gooden FA
*Anthony Parker FA
*Jorge Garbajosa FA
*Brevin Knight FA
Juan Dixon FA

Over the hill Players

Eddie Jones
Steve Francis
Juwon Howard
*Antoine Walker
Austin Croshere

Any names spark any interest?

I like the guys with *

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #151 on: May 18, 2009, 08:07:51 PM »

Offline LB3533

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Ricky Davis is done.  He's always been a me first player and wouldn't fit well here.  Plus he's aging and he won't be effective anymore.

Hart is a downgrade from Marbury imo, but that's just me.  I've watched Novak for years at Marquette and am a big fan of his but he's a taller version of Scal, who doesn't play near the defense Scal does.

Mardy Collins is unknown.  He has talent, but never really has put it all together.  You could say the same for Tony Allen. 

I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not but I'd stay away from all of them.  

I still think Ricky can excel in Doc's offense, especially as a bench player. He'll only be 30 by Nov '09

Hart is a downgrade from Marbury, but he won't take any ill-advised shots nor will he turn the ball over and can probably run the point better than House or Pruitt.

Novak, I just like his ability to spread the opposing defense. Scal does play way better defense, but his hesitation on shooting doesn't make him a player that opposing teams honor.

Mardy Collins, I just think at this point in time, is just a better player than Tony Allen and that's not saying much. But I was looking for someway to get value for Tony Allen.


Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #152 on: May 18, 2009, 08:36:30 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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After thinking it over, I don't think it is time for half measures.  I think it is time to think about rebuilding.

For starters, I believe that KG's injury is much worse than we have been led to believe.  It isn't just a bone spur. It's reattaching a tendon where it has ripped away from the bone.  And they have delayed the surgery.  I would not be surprised if Powe were ready to play before Garnett.

I also think that Marbury and Moore were abject failures and should be given their walking papers.  As for the rest of the bench, BBD and Powe are unrestricted free agents, House has a player option and it is clear that Rivers has zero confidence in Tony Allen, who is likely to be elsewhere next year.

And they have no draft choices.

Unless Ainge can conjure up some young depth out of thin air and Ray Allen's contract, it's going to get worse-- much worse-- before it gets better.



 

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #153 on: May 18, 2009, 09:09:18 PM »

Offline dlpin

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After thinking it over, I don't think it is time for half measures.  I think it is time to think about rebuilding.

For starters, I believe that KG's injury is much worse than we have been led to believe.  It isn't just a bone spur. It's reattaching a tendon where it has ripped away from the bone.  And they have delayed the surgery.  I would not be surprised if Powe were ready to play before Garnett.

I also think that Marbury and Moore were abject failures and should be given their walking papers.  As for the rest of the bench, BBD and Powe are unrestricted free agents, House has a player option and it is clear that Rivers has zero confidence in Tony Allen, who is likely to be elsewhere next year.

And they have no draft choices.

Unless Ainge can conjure up some young depth out of thin air and Ray Allen's contract, it's going to get worse-- much worse-- before it gets better.



 

Right now, even if not the favorites, we'd still have a pretty good chance at a title next year, and the year after.

If we start a rebuilding process right now, without any space under the cap and no draft picks, we'd be looking at a New York Knicks style rebuilding effort, one that would require multiple years to even consider making the playoffs again.

So no, thank you very much. There are about 26 teams in the league trying desperately to get to where the celtics are now.


Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #154 on: May 18, 2009, 09:24:11 PM »

Offline BballTim

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After thinking it over, I don't think it is time for half measures.  I think it is time to think about rebuilding.

For starters, I believe that KG's injury is much worse than we have been led to believe.  It isn't just a bone spur. It's reattaching a tendon where it has ripped away from the bone.  And they have delayed the surgery.  I would not be surprised if Powe were ready to play before Garnett.

I also think that Marbury and Moore were abject failures and should be given their walking papers.  As for the rest of the bench, BBD and Powe are unrestricted free agents, House has a player option and it is clear that Rivers has zero confidence in Tony Allen, who is likely to be elsewhere next year.

And they have no draft choices.

Unless Ainge can conjure up some young depth out of thin air and Ray Allen's contract, it's going to get worse-- much worse-- before it gets better.



 

  On the other hand, what if KG isn't much worse than we've been led to believe?

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #155 on: May 18, 2009, 09:46:16 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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After thinking it over, I don't think it is time for half measures.  I think it is time to think about rebuilding.

For starters, I believe that KG's injury is much worse than we have been led to believe.  It isn't just a bone spur. It's reattaching a tendon where it has ripped away from the bone.  And they have delayed the surgery.  I would not be surprised if Powe were ready to play before Garnett.

I also think that Marbury and Moore were abject failures and should be given their walking papers.  As for the rest of the bench, BBD and Powe are unrestricted free agents, House has a player option and it is clear that Rivers has zero confidence in Tony Allen, who is likely to be elsewhere next year.

And they have no draft choices.

Unless Ainge can conjure up some young depth out of thin air and Ray Allen's contract, it's going to get worse-- much worse-- before it gets better.



 

  On the other hand, what if KG isn't much worse than we've been led to believe?


go listen to the bill simmons podcast with the guest doctor. they don't know much about his particular injury (tendon tearing a piece of the bone away from the femur, i believe). the surgery option is to screw the tendon to the bone. the other option is to let it heal on its own, timetable unknown.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #156 on: May 18, 2009, 09:53:16 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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go listen to the bill simmons podcast with the guest doctor. they don't know much about his particular injury (tendon tearing a piece of the bone away from the femur, i believe). the surgery option is to screw the tendon to the bone. the other option is to let it heal on its own, timetable unknown.

Will Carroll isn't a doctor.  Here's what he said in terms of his qualifications:

Quote
RWBB: I'm curious. Are you an MD?

Will: That's probably the most common question I'm asked. I am not a physician, nor medical professional of any type. I have a background in sports medicine, but I am not a certified athletic trainer.

The next question I generally get is the following: "If you're not a doctor, why should I listen to you?" I figured out the answer after about a hundred failed attempts. I'm a translator and a pattern recognizer. If you have a medical background, you'll understand what a Grade II+ medial collateral sprain with meniscal involvement means without me. If you're a baseball fan, you know who B.J. Surhoff is. If you're not both--and who is, really?--then you're missing half the picture. I sit in the middle, trying to give my readers as much overlap as I can. Without talking down to anyone, I can usually translate the medical info into a baseball context and the baseball info into a medical context. I take what the medical professionals do and try to make it mean something to the BP reader, which is at a pretty high level to begin with. If I can do it in an entertaining fashion, it's all the better.

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2003/11/tossing_bp_with.php

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Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #157 on: May 18, 2009, 10:51:33 PM »

Offline RebusRankin

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First off, the guy that Simmons has admitted he basically knows nothing. He can call it a translator but when you admit you're not a doctor or even a medical professional, that's reality.

To the topic at hand, Would you trade Scal and TA to Indiana for Foster and Daniels. On our end, it give us a quality back-up center and a wing who can play the 2 and 3, score and defend. For the Pacers, it gives them two expiring contracts and they lost $ this year as they have for many years in their history.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #158 on: May 18, 2009, 11:08:55 PM »

Offline Reyquila

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From here we go stinking it up for the next ten years. Why can we expect some miracle cure for the fact that we mortgaged our future for last year's banner and we dont even have a decent draft pick this year? Why do we insist on putting possible trades in the table in which we are giving our remaining garbage for other teams'good players and still think that we are going to lure them into bad trades for them? We took very drastic measures last year to win one flag. We got our flag. Our aging three are in the accident prone age zone; so relax and review our last year's taped playoffs wins, cause the winds of mediocrity are in the horizon. Or you can continue to concoct dream trades.
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Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #159 on: May 19, 2009, 10:47:12 AM »

Offline JSD

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According to hoopshype.com Tay expires in 2011 and the Pistons only have 8 players under contract for the 2010 season.

Cordrobes, Stackhouse for Tay doesn't help the Pistons fill out their roster. A value you don't seem to appreciate.

Others see my perspective:

Quote
Expiring contracts: The Cs have several contracts that expire in 2010, for players of marginal value to the team: Scalabrine; Tony Allen; Eddie House, if he does not opt to become a free agent; Gabe Pruitt. Many teams are desperate to dump long-term contracts, either to get under the cap for the 2010 free agent market or to simply save money. The Cs could get into this market to score a veteran player and/or to get a future no. 1 pick. (e.g. Scal and Tony Allen could probably net Nazr Mohammed and a future no. 1 from Charlotte.) This option is dependent upon Wyc Grousbeck’s willingness to assume more salary. If he is, the Cs should be able to tango.

http://realgm.com/src_feature_pieces/775/20090518/mission_impossible_all_eyes_on_danny_ainge/



Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #160 on: May 19, 2009, 11:01:11 AM »

Offline crownsy

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From here we go stinking it up for the next ten years. Why can we expect some miracle cure for the fact that we mortgaged our future for last year's banner and we dont even have a decent draft pick this year? Why do we insist on putting possible trades in the table in which we are giving our remaining garbage for other teams'good players and still think that we are going to lure them into bad trades for them? We took very drastic measures last year to win one flag. We got our flag. Our aging three are in the accident prone age zone; so relax and review our last year's taped playoffs wins, cause the winds of mediocrity are in the horizon. Or you can continue to concoct dream trades.


Im getting sorta tired of this, im going to start a new thread on it when i get a chance at home so i can type something out.

Aside from the draft pick, which could have been a bust (we were going to take YI, who stinks so far in his career) and the future draft pick that could or could not be good this year (what if we were decent this year with big al, and got into the dead zone of the 11-15 area?) what exactly did we morgage?

Lets look at the guys going out.

Big Al- obviously, This guy is very good. Recently his injuries have reasserted themselves however, and he doesn't play any sort of defense. However, i think we are all aware he is a very good low post man in this league, he's a 20/10 guy, and solid. So we gave up a good to great PF here to get on back.

Ryan gomes- Now lets get into these future guys we mortgaged. Ryan is a good kid, i love what he brings, but he's not a guy showing me the talent to replace paul pierce, as we were being sold during the rebuilding era. He's a decent defender, a streaky shooter, and a solid help defender. I would say right now he's projecting to be 7th or 8th on a good teams bench. So, not much "future" here, he's more of a bench player in training.

Wally- I had zero problems shipping his overrated self out, already lost his starting job twice in CLEV and somehow remains on the team in a limited role post trade deadline.

Telfiar- Once billed as a great up and coming PG, he's shown that while he is better than i thought when he left, he's not going to be the high caliber starter we were told he would evolve into. He might be a serviceable starter someday, but not right now.

GG- stinks, and has now failed on 3 teams.

west- has proved to be a very good starter with lebron, good defense, good shooter when left alone, developed better finishing around the basket, and is generally, in my mind, a solid starter.


So, if your keeping score, we traded one good big man with injury issues, 2 sucky players, 2 bench players, and one solid starter to get 2 HOF'ers and a championship. and we kept the one young player outside of Al who has a chance to be an all star in rondo.

The notion that we "mortgaged our future" has always been so laughable to me. I know we all bought into how great our core of young players was going to get, but look at how these "can't miss" guys danny sold us on turned out. outside of AL and D west (who many thought wouldn't make it above bench player WHILE HE WAS HERE) who is in that trade that is the key to a this championship squad in training we had?

The simple fact is, that team was going to be mediocre, despite what danny told you. Ascending to contender would have required us to hit on the 1st pick in the durant/ oden sweapstakes, and that didn't happen. This team will be in no worse a position in 2-3 years when we start to rebuild than we would have been if we kept rondo and big al and were mediocre for the foreseeable future till paul came off the books.
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Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #161 on: May 19, 2009, 11:03:10 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Here are some names that I am going to throw out there.

Players

*ZaZa Pachulia FA
*Grant Hill FA
*Ronald Murray FA
*Linton Johnson FA
Aarron Gray FA
*James Singleton FA
*Chris Anderson FA
Anthony Carter FA
Walter Hermann FA
*Antonia McDyess FA
CJ Watson FA
Rob Kurz FA
Luther Head FA
*Von Wafer FA
*Rasho Nesterovic FA
Chris Mihm FA
*Quinton Ross FA
*Jamario Moon FA
*Ramon Sessions FA
Ryan Bowen FA
Melvin Ely FA
*Chris Wilcox FA
Malik Rose FA
Desmond Mason FA
*Kareem Rush FA
*Matt Barnes FA
Stromile Swift FA
*Bobby Jackson FA
*Drew Gooden FA
*Anthony Parker FA
*Jorge Garbajosa FA
*Brevin Knight FA
Juan Dixon FA

Over the hill Players

Eddie Jones
Steve Francis
Juwon Howard
*Antoine Walker
Austin Croshere

Any names spark any interest?

I like the guys with *


I think grabbing Hill, Bobby Jackson and Wallace would set the Celtics bench up perfect (while keeping House, Davis, Scali and Powe)

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #162 on: May 19, 2009, 11:24:52 AM »

Offline Galiza Ceive

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Just a heads-up: Nachbar ended his contract with Dynamo Moscow, he's an unrestricted free-agent now. Personally, I'm not interested on him, but a propos, I'll paste here something I wrote in the comments section of a fanpost:

I believe the Celtics should look at the european leagues in the free-agency market. There are always some good players available to grab there. Off the top of my head: Will Bynum, Stephen Jackson, Bruce Bowen, Udonis Haslem, Anthony Parker, José Calderon, Andreas Nocioni, Luis Scola, Raja Bell, Nocioni, James Singleton; or in the past guys like Bill Laimbeer, PJ Brown, Mario Ellie, Antonio Davis, Darrell Armstront, etc.: all of them were free-agents in Europe before joining the NBA.

I'm pretty sure there are some players currently in Europe that are legit NBA rotation players. You can pick from guys with NBA experience like Childress, Delfino, Nachbar, Pargo, etc.; former NBA busts who have developed their games like Marcus Haislip or Rakocevic;  undrafted free-agents like Bourousis, McIntyre, Romain Sato, Austin Nichols; or guys who were drafted but are still to join the league, like Fran Vasquez, Andersen or Lorbek.

I think it's stupid to limit yourself to the current crop of NBA players; most of those guys (and others I didn't cite) are good enough to play in the NBA and maybe you can get them for cheaper.

IMO Andersen (drafted by Atlanta) would fit better than Vázquez (drafted by Orlando). Fran Vázquez has the physical tools to become a very good PF/C in the NBA (first off the bench or even a starter on a weak team), but unfortunately he is not smart enough. Additionally, he cannot speak English at all and I doubt he would be able to learn some.
On the contrary Andarsen is a really gifted played (although worse defender than Vázquez) who would fit well any NBA team.

Also Cabezas, the Spanish PG is looking for a chance in the NBA. He can be a decent back up if we dont sign Marbury.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #163 on: May 19, 2009, 02:53:01 PM »

Offline WedmanIsMyHero

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I posted this elsewhere, but then realized this may be a better place for it. . .

Here's a question: There is one type of the player the Celtics lack (well, excluding Bill Walker, but Doc doesn't seem to like him all that much) and have lacked ever since the beginning of the Pierce era -- the athletic, exciting, jump out of the gym swing player.  Guys who are not necessarily starters, but can provide huge boosts off the bench when they are playing well and matchup problems for opponents.  Think Mickael Pietrus or Trevor Ariza.  Do Ainge and Doc just not see value in these types of players?


Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #164 on: May 19, 2009, 02:56:32 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I posted this elsewhere, but then realized this may be a better place for it. . .

Here's a question: There is one type of the player the Celtics lack (well, excluding Bill Walker, but Doc doesn't seem to like him all that much) and have lacked ever since the beginning of the Pierce era -- the athletic, exciting, jump out of the gym swing player.  Guys who are not necessarily starters, but can provide huge boosts off the bench when they are playing well and matchup problems for opponents.  Think Mickael Pietrus or Trevor Ariza.  Do Ainge and Doc just not see value in these types of players?


  We've had thletic, exciting, jump out of the gym swing players. They've just not been the smartest players. Tony Allen, Ricky Davis, Gerald Green...