Author Topic: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)  (Read 34477 times)

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Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2009, 12:15:10 AM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Thank god theres a summer league this year, I think it'll be big for Walker, Giddens and whoever to play in this and get ready for the season. IMO they missed out last year.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2009, 12:49:12 AM »

Offline dickie777

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It semms pretty obvious to me to trade jesus +1st or jesus + BBD for Rip Hamilton

Everybody loves rays offense but his defensive is just plain offensive! If BBD is the price then you do it.

If it comes down to it I would also make a simular trade for howard of the maveriks. he would bring some size and defensive and there are looking for a stackhouse replacement

just my 2 Cents

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2009, 12:56:04 AM »

Offline dlpin

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It semms pretty obvious to me to trade jesus +1st or jesus + BBD for Rip Hamilton

Everybody loves rays offense but his defensive is just plain offensive! If BBD is the price then you do it.

If it comes down to it I would also make a simular trade for howard of the maveriks. he would bring some size and defensive and there are looking for a stackhouse replacement

just my 2 Cents

And why in the world would the pistons do that trade? They are trying to rebuild, so they would trade for an older, more expensive player signed for the same length?

In any case, given that people are always trying to trade Ray here: Ray is not going anywhere. It would be a significant blow to team chemistry and team identity if one of the cornerstones of this team was traded.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2009, 12:57:24 AM »

Offline vagrantwade

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It semms pretty obvious to me to trade jesus +1st or jesus + BBD for Rip Hamilton

Everybody loves rays offense but his defensive is just plain offensive! If BBD is the price then you do it.

If it comes down to it I would also make a simular trade for howard of the maveriks. he would bring some size and defensive and there are looking for a stackhouse replacement

just my 2 Cents

No...

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #49 on: May 18, 2009, 12:59:36 AM »

Online Who

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Hmmm ....

Firstly, the Celtics' own house

(1) Let Glen Davis walk. He isn't worth the money he'll command.
(2) Let Marbury walk. Maybe he regains his touch, maybe he doesn't, either way I'm uncomfortable with the uncertainty.
(3) Move Tony Allen. If there's no decent trade on the table, offer $3mil to someone like Memphis to take his contract off the C's hands so the team can gain some financial wiggle room
(4) I like Eddie House as the primary backup point guard and I like Gabe Pruitt as the third string point guard. Keep them. Stop trying to move House off the ball, I'd rather dump him than play him at the off guard next year.
(5) Resign Leon Powe to a contract a little above the minimum and give him a shot at his comeback.
(6) Let Mikki Moore leave
(7) Keep Giddens and Walker, but since neither established themselves this season ... those two plus Pruitt should be taking up roster spots 13-15.

Filling Some Holes

The starting lineup is set. I like the backup guards with House and Pruitt. I like Scal and Powe as the fifth and sixth big men in the rotation. The team needs two bigs and two-three wings.

[8] I'd like to see Josh Powell signed for the minimum to be the fourth big man in the rotation.
(9) Sign Grant Hill to the LLE to be the team's sixth man in his first season, and possibly a lesser role the next year.
(10) Sign Ime Udoka and Quinton Ross to minimum contracts in order to be the fourth and fifth wings in the rotation in whatever order that sorts itself out into. If Bogans would accept the minimum, I'd prefer him.
(11) Some first bigs of the bench candidates -- Anderson Varejao, Antonio McDyess, Zaza Pachulia, Rasho Nesterovic -- Dice and Nesterovic seem like possible candidates to take under $3mil if the team is unwilling to pay out the MLE. That first big off the bench looks the hardest role to fill.

That leaves me with 16 players, so someone's getting cut in training camp.

Other Thoughts

(12) Try to sign Rondo to an extension.
(13) Examine trade possibilities with Ray Allen being the centerpiece. Maybe there's a worthwhile trade there, maybe there isn't ... it's worth looking.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #50 on: May 18, 2009, 01:02:30 AM »

Offline amenhotep04

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I don't expect there to be huge moves this off-season.  I also think people have to realize that Doc misused the bench.

Need One: Two bigs. One to replace Moore who will be in the regular rotation; and the second to be more of a project, but still can play when someone gets hurt.

Need Two: Resign BBD.  With Leon on the shelf, and being so thin at the four and five, BBD has to be resigned.

Need Three: Either make up your mind to go with Walker at the three or find someone you predict Doc will actually play behind Paul.

Need Four: Doc has to learn how to rotate players.  And if the bench is genetically untalented, then have the bench play a more pressing, hustle type of defense to upset the flow of the opposing team. Regardless, getting good players is fruitless if Doc doesn't utilize the players to their best abilities.

Need Five: Find an offensive coach who is the equivalent of Thibodeau on defense.  The offense is pathetic.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #51 on: May 18, 2009, 01:04:29 AM »

Offline dlpin

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I am fine with everything you've said except the "Trade Ray Allen" idea. Yeah, he has played poorly recently.

But I significantly doubt that we would get fair value for him. Any team with an interest in him would be a contender one piece away from the title, and no way do they give something of significance back.

And this is only talking about on the basketball court. Off of it, it would be a significant blow to team chemistry if we traded him. You can't go from preaching ubuntu, the importance of big stars accepting smaller roles for the good of the team, and all that to trading Ray because he struggled in a playoff series.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #52 on: May 18, 2009, 01:08:31 AM »

Offline dickie777

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It semms pretty obvious to me to trade jesus +1st or jesus + BBD for Rip Hamilton

Everybody loves rays offense but his defensive is just plain offensive! If BBD is the price then you do it.

If it comes down to it I would also make a simular trade for howard of the maveriks. he would bring some size and defensive and there are looking for a stackhouse replacement

just my 2 Cents

No...

Wow that was pretty insightful. thanks.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2009, 01:37:09 AM »

Offline vinnie

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If Eddie House is the backup point guard next year, the team will go nowhere. This team needs a real backup point guard. When it is Eddie, teams can pressure him and bad things happen.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2009, 04:18:06 AM »

Offline damntolkienreader

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Guys, here's a few thoughts on the off-season with the team's financials in mind.

The Celtics have nine players under contract for 2009-2010: Garnett, Pierce, Ray Allen, Perkins, Scalabrine, Tony Allen, Rondo, Giddens, and Walker.  These guys make a combined salary of $69.5M next season.

House has a player option for about $2.9M, which I expect him to exercise.  That would put the total at about $72.4M.

The team holds an option on Pruitt for $729K.

Now, given that the expected luxury tax threshold for next season will be about $70M, and with the first 10 players mentioned above already making more than that collectively, I cannot imagine the Celtics picking up this option, and basically committing almost $1.5M to Pruitt when you consider the dollar-for-dollar tax.  So, I believe this is it for Pruitt.

Davis and Powe are restricted free agents since both have less than four seasons of service.

Powe, because of his injury, and the fact that he will be out most of next year, will probably play out one of two ways.  Either the Celtics renounce him and have his salary come off the cap, or they will use the minimum player salary exception and offer him a one-year contract while he rehabs.  I expect they will probably do the latter, given how the team feels about his personal history, then re-evaluate him after the rehab is complete.

Davis' value is harder to estimate, but I don't think it will come to $10M given the economy and the fact that about 15 teams took up the NBA's offer of a loan to cover operating losses.  Best case scenario is that he eats up most of the team's mid-level exception of about $5.6M and ends up making something in the neighborhood of Perkin's $4.3M salary next season.

That leaves Marbury and Moore, who are unrestricted free agents.  I don't think anyone expects Moore back.

As far as Marbury goes, though, I personally would like to see him play for the Celtics with a full pre-season under his belt.  The question is whether he would take less money to stay with the team.

If so, I expect him to take the full bi-annual exception of about $2M and whatever is left over of the mid-level that didn't go to Davis.  If not, I expect Ainge to remember what he saw of Lindsey Hunter and Anthony Johnson in the playoffs and spend about half of the bi-annual to sign a veteran point guard (perhaps the selfsame Hunter, Steve Francis, or Jason Williams who wanted to come out of retirement this year).  He will likely keep the other half in his pocket with an eye towards players who might be bought out mid-season, ala Moore and Marbury.

So, that leaves two roster spots open vacated by Pruitt and Moore.  We definitely need size, but with only $1M left in exceptions and no first round pick next season, I do not know how we will fill this with a quality big man.

The only bargaining chips the team has left are the expiring contracts of Scalabrine and Tony Allen.  House will technically have an expiring contract, as will Ray Allen, but I do not expect either to be moved.

The best case scenario is that one or both of Allen and Scalabrine is/are traded for a serviceable big man, leaving up to three roster spots open for which Ainge can scrape the bargain bin.

Pachulia will likely be out of reach financially, as will Rasheed Wallace, Odom, Gooden, Marion, and maybe even Nesterovic and Jeff Foster.

Some free agent big-man bets (with a few SFs) -- old friends Mihm and (I hate to say it) Antoine Walker, Ryan Hollins (loved what he did for Dallas in the playoffs), Brandon Bass (too much of a Powe/Davis clone IMO), McDyess (probably won't sign here given his history with Garnett), Chris Anderson (on whom the team passed in favor of O'Bryant), Jason Collins, Stromile Swift, Sean Marks, Melvin Ely, Chris Wilcox, Joe Smith, Gortat, Grant Hill, Matt Barnes, Garbajosa, Jarron Collins, Millsap (clone, too), and Josh Powell (clone).

Others who are running on fumes or career-long scrubs -- Juwan Howard, Dwayne Jones, Aaron Gray, Lorenzen Wright, Mbenga, Foyle, Fazekas, Brian Skinner, Magloire, Ratliff, La Frentz, Calvin Booth, and Voskuhl.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2009, 04:26:14 AM »

Offline dlpin

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If next season the FA class is full of big names, this FA class is full of MLE level guys who could really complement a team like Boston. Between RFAs and UFAs, we have people like Ariza, Marvin Williams, Boozer, Wilcox, Andersen, Pachulia, Shawn Marion, and many more.

A good MLE and an LLE at the 3 and 4/5 positions, a healthy team, and either powe or davis back and we're back in business.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2009, 04:46:59 AM »

Offline star18

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Somehow get Carlos Boozer, if we can get him and keep the Big 3, Rondo & Perkins we can do it. Boozer plays hard and won't let us down.

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2009, 05:17:39 AM »

Offline greenwise

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To me the biggest factors for our early exit have been:

1. KG's injury

2. Too many minutes for Ray and Paul
(which leads to..)

3. No backup 3/2: We've missed Posey, and we've been lucky that we've had the best Scal of his career. But let's face it, he is not as good as Posey and that killed Paul's legs. Also, Tony Allen was a failure, he said he was as good as Pose in the offseason but he didn't manage to break into the team's playoff rotation

4. No back up 5: O'Bryant, Moore...nobody satisfied Doc's style. We missed someone like PJ finally

So in my opinion we should keep the core intact, with House and Scalabrine included, resign Powe or Davis (for the right price) and try and make a little trade with one of the previously mentioned plus Allen and Giddens. We need:

1. To know if Marbury is our back up guard. If not, we need to sign a new player
2. Get a 3: Posey, Nocioni, Hill...someone to play 20 min off the bench with talent
3. Get a 5: A nice solid center

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2009, 05:50:35 AM »

Offline LB3533

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1. Get REST

2. Get Healthy

3. Get AWAY from basketball

4. Get a bench

5. Get number 18

Re: Where Do We Go Now? (Celts off season plan)
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2009, 06:53:27 AM »

Offline beantownboy171

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What about a sign and trade of BBD for Noccioni, I know the contracts wouldn't match straight out, but it would just take TA or Scal to make them even.

Would the kings do that?

I feel like they would. Give us a back up 3, and then we resign leon powe for as little as possible, and then go hard after one the free agent centers.

Should be an interesting offseason.