baby's got trade value

[EJPLAYA]

If we did trade BBD, why are people suggesting to do it for an athletic swing man? All our young guys that will still be here are swing men (Walker and Giddens). We need a backup big even more!

Because both Giddens and Walker are undersized at the SF spot. We need a defensive SF that is in the 6-8 to 6-9 range to be able to give players like Lebron a little difficulty. I know that no one is really going to stop Lebron, but the ability to make him alter his pull up a bit will help.

Both Giddens and Walker are also "potential" guys and if we want a chance of winning this next year or the following then we need now guys. BBD in a trade can help give us that.

[Swiss Green Cheeze]

If we did trade BBD, why are people suggesting to do it for an athletic swing man? All our young guys that will still be here are swing men (Walker and Giddens). We need a backup big even more!

Because both Giddens and Walker are undersized at the SF spot. We need a defensive SF that is in the 6-8 to 6-9 range to be able to give players like Lebron a little difficulty. I know that no one is really going to stop Lebron, but the ability to make him alter his pull up a bit will help.

Both Giddens and Walker are also "potential" guys and if we want a chance of winning this next year or the following then we need now guys. BBD in a trade can help give us that.

the guy you're describing me is Jeff Adrien. I know you will say that he is only 6-7 but he would be a real defensive stud ! If the C's get someone like him I would then trade Walker for cash and then resign the Perkins-Rondo-Davis.

If Danny can figure a way out to add a young offensive player we could jump over the couple of hellish year we will have when KG, Ray and Paul will retire.

I have to say that I can't really name a team who won and did that afterwards. The spurs aren't getting younger as well as the Pistons did etc...

The C's have the most wanted and hard to find nba position locked up for years to come in Rondo and Perkins. The swingmen positions aren't that difficult to field in. You just have to have an eye and get a prospect who turns out really nice.

By the way did i mention that even if we need a big desperatly I really like the C's working out Jermaine Taylor who is a really good shooter of the block and the pass. he could catch up some of our tears when Ray will light out due to his age !

[Fan from VT]

Here's my worry about Davis.

He definitely has stepped it up lately.

He's always been most impressive just before he is due for a contract, i.e. leading up to the draft and now approaching his first free agency period.

His production as a bench player has always been putrid.

His best production has always been as a starter.

However, if he's your starter, then he's a liability at that position.

Basically, he's a paradox. He plays his best when he's starting, but if he's starting that means you are giving up a lot at the PF position. If we could get his equivalent production as a starter when he was coming off the bench, that would be great; but he has repeatedly shown that when he comes off the bench he stinks.

Does that make sense? He's shown that he needs to start and get big minutes to approach effective production, but he's really not good enough to be your PF starter for a truly good team. If he could play this well coming off the bench for a truly good team that would be great; he's shown though that off the bench he stinks. He's stuck in a no man's land.



for the right piece, I would love to package scal, tony, possibly eddie's expiring contracts with Davis in a sign and trade for one very good player making 10-13 million.

[Jon]

Here's my worry about Davis.

He definitely has stepped it up lately.

He's always been most impressive just before he is due for a contract, i.e. leading up to the draft and now approaching his first free agency period.

His production as a bench player has always been putrid.

His best production has always been as a starter.

However, if he's your starter, then he's a liability at that position.

Basically, he's a paradox. He plays his best when he's starting, but if he's starting that means you are giving up a lot at the PF position. If we could get his equivalent production as a starter when he was coming off the bench, that would be great; but he has repeatedly shown that when he comes off the bench he stinks.

Does that make sense? He's shown that he needs to start and get big minutes to approach effective production, but he's really not good enough to be your PF starter for a truly good team. If he could play this well coming off the bench for a truly good team that would be great; he's shown though that off the bench he stinks. He's stuck in a no man's land.



for the right piece, I would love to package scal, tony, possibly eddie's expiring contracts with Davis in a sign and trade for one very good player making 10-13 million.

Well I think it makes sense that he plays better with great players.  I like Baby, but a lot of players in the NBA would look good if opposing defenses are focusing their energies on stopping two Hall of Fame swingmen and you have a top 5 PG getting you the ball.  Furthermore, his defensive shortcoming are mitigated by Perk's outstanding defense (something that doesn't happen when Powe's out there next to him). 

Still, usually I'd be all for trading him.  I think his value will go down and that he never can be a starter on an elite team.  Still, given this team's relatively short window of opportunity, part of me wants to hold on to him for next year.  He fits in with the team and knows his role.  Furthermore, I'm not sure how much this team needs if it stays healthy.  If they can win 66 games two years ago with Ray Allen not integrated into the system and with Rondo, Perk, and Baby a shadow of what they are now, what can they do with Ray fully integrated into the system, Rondo playing at an All Star level, Perk playing like an all defensive center, and Baby putting up 15 ppg? 

Still, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing him go.  But I am curious to see what this team can do just staying together and adding a few FAs. 

[dksidey]

I know this is from the New York Daily News (so the accuracy can and should be questioned). But what are people's thoughts on what it would take to acquire Yi? a sign and trade of Baby (and or Tony/Scal) + draft pick for Yi next year? Danny supposedly loved this guy and was going to draft him that year.

PROs: Good shooting ability (a must from PFs playing in the Celtics system.), Good height (a backup PF taller than Pierce), Good athleticism.

CONs: Developed Rep as soft player, not a great rebounder for size, doesn't appear to have developed much since he entered the league, appears to be a high maintenance type of player (See the early contract issues with the Bucks).

I could see him developing into a legit backup in the Celtics system. I could equally see him becoming the next Paddy O'Blount. What do you think?


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/2009/05/16/2009-05-16_kings_hoping_to_hit_lottery.html (Relevant portion half way down on the right)

[Fan from VT]

I think we're saying very similar things.

My concern with Davis is that when his role is bench player, he's been very bad.

He's played much better (but still only about league average) as a starter. Even though he's much better as a starter, that's still not enough to be a very good starter.

15 ppg would be great from Davis in 20-25 minutes off the bench; unfortunately he's giving us 16 points and 5.8 rebounds in about 37 minutes per game, which is still less than average (and a far cry from good or very good) for a starting power forward.

What it comes down to is that if we need to start Davis at PF next year or in the future, we're in trouble. And he has never demonstrated he can be really effective in short minutes off the bench. He knows his role when KG and Powe are out; does he have a role for which he is suited when the roster is full?

If we do re-sign him it has to be because the team is sure he will be able to transition from adequate emergency starter into an effective short minutes 6-8 man, because signing him to be a future starter is probably a mistake. If we are looking for a future KG replacement at starting PF, we should be looking elsewhere.

[Jon]

If we do re-sign him it has to be because the team is sure he will be able to transition from adequate emergency starter into an effective short minutes 6-8 man, because signing him to be a future starter is probably a mistake. If we are looking for a future KG replacement at starting PF, we should be looking elsewhere.

Agreed.  I'm not averse to him coming back--in some ways I think it could work out--but by no means do I want him back at starting PF money.  Too many players have looked good on good teams then fallen off when teams started to lean on them to merit giving Baby more than backup money. 

We'll have to see how much the economy affects NBA salaries.  It could work out for the C's that no one will offer Baby much money. 

[KungPoweChicken]

Let Baby receive his payday somewhere else. Honestly, I see him as nothing more than a backup in this league. Yes, he can be a serviceable starter but that doesn't warrant big money. There are other options that will be available to the Celtics, mainly, McDyess and Hill--man would that be sweet. As far as using Big Baby as trade bait, I don't see any suitors.

I feel like Davis is playing over his head right now. He knows that he is playing for a contract. Now I'm not saying he is going to pull a Mark Blount, but you have to be wary in these kinds of situations. Especially when it pertains to an undersized, overweight power forward. But I love the kid's hustle thus far in the playoffs.

[guava_wrench]

I know this is from the New York Daily News (so the accuracy can and should be questioned). But what are people's thoughts on what it would take to acquire Yi? a sign and trade of Baby (and or Tony/Scal) + draft pick for Yi next year? Danny supposedly loved this guy and was going to draft him that year.

PROs: Good shooting ability (a must from PFs playing in the Celtics system.), Good height (a backup PF taller than Pierce), Good athleticism.

CONs: Developed Rep as soft player, not a great rebounder for size, doesn't appear to have developed much since he entered the league, appears to be a high maintenance type of player (See the early contract issues with the Bucks).

I could see him developing into a legit backup in the Celtics system. I could equally see him becoming the next Paddy O'Blount. What do you think?


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/2009/05/16/2009-05-16_kings_hoping_to_hit_lottery.html (Relevant portion half way down on the right)

How could he become the next POB when he is already much better than POB?

I'm wondering what kind of contract people think other teams are going to offer BBD.

It is also interesting to see him contribute this playoffs far more than Posey did in last year's playoffs. If BBD show this same ability and we won a championship, we would probably see far more 'throw money at him' posts.

I am not sold on BBD, but I doubt many GMs are either. I think people are overestimating his value.

[Thruthelookingglass]

Maybe before Kevin McHale officially leaves the T-wolves, we can swing a Baby for Big Al swap.  Yes, I still miss him.

I would not criticize Ainge for making that swap.  That said, I really like what we get to see from BBD and I'm not looking forward to him departing.  He's good in green.

[greg683x]

Lots a good points on here.

I'm sure Danny already has a limit on the amount of money hes gonna be willing spend on BBD, the factor is gonna be how much is he going to want and what are other teams gonna offer.

If other teams beat Dannys dollar amount, Im sure Danny will do the same he did with James Posey, shake his hand, say thanks for the hard work and best of luck.

Im sure some people will complain that what Danny did with Posey was a mistake but honestly, you dont want to give a lot of money to guy whos gonna be backing up a guy whos gonna be playing 35min a game.  Yes Baby can play center, but it's a mis match.  If were gonna throw out some dollars I want a guy who can fully guard both 4's and 5's, and if teams are gonna overpay for big baby, we could get one of those guys for less, and still have money left to bring in a backup SF, because WE DO need one.  Bill Walker will not be ready.  Lets not make that mistake two years in a row.

and no thanks to Yi.

Just to be clear though, Im on board for keeping BBD here as long as it's a reasonable price, it's not worth overpaying b/c I'd roll the dice and say hes not gonna be the future starting PF on this team.

[Galiza Ceive]

Here's my worry about Davis.

He definitely has stepped it up lately.

He's always been most impressive just before he is due for a contract, i.e. leading up to the draft and now approaching his first free agency period.

His production as a bench player has always been putrid.

His best production has always been as a starter.

However, if he's your starter, then he's a liability at that position.

Basically, he's a paradox. He plays his best when he's starting, but if he's starting that means you are giving up a lot at the PF position. If we could get his equivalent production as a starter when he was coming off the bench, that would be great; but he has repeatedly shown that when he comes off the bench he stinks.

Does that make sense? He's shown that he needs to start and get big minutes to approach effective production, but he's really not good enough to be your PF starter for a truly good team. If he could play this well coming off the bench for a truly good team that would be great; he's shown though that off the bench he stinks. He's stuck in a no man's land.



for the right piece, I would love to package scal, tony, possibly eddie's expiring contracts with Davis in a sign and trade for one very good player making 10-13 million.

He has been on a contract year 2 out of the last three years. And even in his rookie season he played quite ok in a championship caliber team. I dont buy the idea he is playing great just for the contract.

Also, asking him to score 16points per game in 20/25 minutes is a bit too much. His play off production has been as good as anyone.

And finally, even if he is a back up his entire career I wouldnt mind giving 4 million a yearto the first big from the bench. Basically, it is what Scal has been earning for much less.

[Jon]

Lots a good points on here.

I'm sure Danny already has a limit on the amount of money hes gonna be willing spend on BBD, the factor is gonna be how much is he going to want and what are other teams gonna offer.

If other teams beat Dannys dollar amount, Im sure Danny will do the same he did with James Posey, shake his hand, say thanks for the hard work and best of luck.

Im sure some people will complain that what Danny did with Posey was a mistake but honestly, you dont want to give a lot of money to guy whos gonna be backing up a guy whos gonna be playing 35min a game.  Yes Baby can play center, but it's a mis match.  If were gonna throw out some dollars I want a guy who can fully guard both 4's and 5's, and if teams are gonna overpay for big baby, we could get one of those guys for less, and still have money left to bring in a backup SF, because WE DO need one.  Bill Walker will not be ready.  Lets not make that mistake two years in a row.

and no thanks to Yi.

Just to be clear though, Im on board for keeping BBD here as long as it's a reasonable price, it's not worth overpaying b/c I'd roll the dice and say hes not gonna be the future starting PF on this team.

While I'd like to see Baby back, I think he actually has less value to this team than Posey.  Up until Powe went down with his injury, it was highly debatable which undersized 4 was more valuable to this team.  If Powe can make it back by the playoffs next year and this team can get a serviceable backup center, this team might not miss Baby at all.  The same can obviously not be said about Posey.  Though some people fancied that TA could step in where he left off, that obviously didn't happen. 

[cordobes]

Davis is not worth nearly as much money as Posey was. Posey is a bona-fide 6th man who could play 3 positions, with a skill-set that complements a starting 5 filled with shot-creators and that would handle that role for as long as this core is competing. He alone would solve a lot of your bench problems - all that the team would need to add every year of this window would be a serviceable guard and a solid defensive, rebounding big man; then a couple of kids and min. salary type of veterans to add depth.

Davis you have to ponder very well who else is in the market,  which role he can fill for you and other needs the team has. If there's no budgetary restriction whatsoever, well, just sign him to a short-term contract, 2 years at most. But if there's one, I'd say there's a good chance Davis has already priced himself out of what Boston should offer.

[Jon]

Davis is not worth nearly as much money as Posey was. Posey is a bona-fide 6th man who could play 3 positions, with a skill-set that complements a starting 5 filled with shot-creators and that would handle that role for as long as this core is competing. He alone would solve a lot of your bench problems - all that the team would need to add every year of this window would be a serviceable guard and a solid defensive, rebounding big man; then a couple of kids and min. salary type of veterans to add depth.

Davis you have to ponder very well who else is in the market,  which role he can fill for you and other needs the team has. If there's no budgetary restriction whatsoever, well, just sign him to a short-term contract, 2 years at most. But if there's one, I'd say there's a good chance Davis has already priced himself out of what Boston should offer.

Just talking about Pose makes me regret how much we don't have him on this team this year.  He'd have come in quite handy with his ability to play the 4 with Garnett out.  He'd also be quite handy guarding Lewis.