Did Baby get 2 mil. cheaper?

[GeoDim]

I love when dead posts are brought back to life and just look completely foolish.

I'm sure I was way off on the amount...but are you saying that Baby's value was predetermined before the start of these playoffs?

Could be an interesting discussion regarding young players in contract years...

I wasn't calling your thread foolish.  I'm saying that now it looks foolish, due to the outcome of tonight's game.  You obviously didn't have the ability to look two days into the future when starting the thread.  And now you'll probably get a lot of toldyasos.  It's just funny how that works out.

[wiley]

I love when dead posts are brought back to life and just look completely foolish.

I'm sure I was way off on the amount...but are you saying that Baby's value was predetermined before the start of these playoffs?

Could be an interesting discussion regarding young players in contract years...

I wasn't calling your thread foolish.  I'm saying that now it looks foolish, due to the outcome of tonight's game.  You obviously didn't have the ability to look two days into the future when starting the thread.  And now you'll probably get a lot of toldyasos.  It's just funny how that works out.

Thanks man. 

And I do think the Celts will be able to resign Glen despite his 5 million dollar performance in tonight's game

[GeoDim]

I love when dead posts are brought back to life and just look completely foolish.

I'm sure I was way off on the amount...but are you saying that Baby's value was predetermined before the start of these playoffs?

Could be an interesting discussion regarding young players in contract years...

I wasn't calling your thread foolish.  I'm saying that now it looks foolish, due to the outcome of tonight's game.  You obviously didn't have the ability to look two days into the future when starting the thread.  And now you'll probably get a lot of toldyasos.  It's just funny how that works out.

Thanks man. 

And I do think the Celts will be able to resign Glen despite his 5 million dollar performance in tonight's game

I'm confident that he'll be back with us.  He's showing tremendous game in just his second year in the pros.  But LOL at the million-dollar fluctuations from game to game. 

[wiley]

I love when dead posts are brought back to life and just look completely foolish.

I'm sure I was way off on the amount...but are you saying that Baby's value was predetermined before the start of these playoffs?

Could be an interesting discussion regarding young players in contract years...

I wasn't calling your thread foolish.  I'm saying that now it looks foolish, due to the outcome of tonight's game.  You obviously didn't have the ability to look two days into the future when starting the thread.  And now you'll probably get a lot of toldyasos.  It's just funny how that works out.

Thanks man. 

And I do think the Celts will be able to resign Glen despite his 5 million dollar performance in tonight's game

I'm confident that he'll be back with us.  He's showing tremendous game in just his second year in the pros.  But LOL at the million-dollar fluctuations from game to game. 

On the other hand, it is a game of millions, and all contract year players in the playoffs, especially the younger ones who've just barely emerged, are under one whopper of a microscope...At least that's what I've been led to believe about modern sports and the millionaires with their armies of scouts and stat geeks....Luckily Glen is a guy who looks focused on winning first and contract second...5 mil was a joke.

[GeoDim]

I love when dead posts are brought back to life and just look completely foolish.

I'm sure I was way off on the amount...but are you saying that Baby's value was predetermined before the start of these playoffs?

Could be an interesting discussion regarding young players in contract years...

I wasn't calling your thread foolish.  I'm saying that now it looks foolish, due to the outcome of tonight's game.  You obviously didn't have the ability to look two days into the future when starting the thread.  And now you'll probably get a lot of toldyasos.  It's just funny how that works out.

Thanks man. 

And I do think the Celts will be able to resign Glen despite his 5 million dollar performance in tonight's game

I'm confident that he'll be back with us.  He's showing tremendous game in just his second year in the pros.  But LOL at the million-dollar fluctuations from game to game. 

On the other hand, it is a game of millions, and all contract year players in the playoffs, especially the younger ones who've just barely emerged, are under one whopper of a microscope...At least that's what I've been led to believe about modern sports and the millionaires with their armies of scouts and stat geeks....Luckily Glen is a guy who looks focused on winning first and contract second...5 mil was a joke.

Glen is one of those guys who needs to play for a contender.  He needs KG yelling in his ear and needs the pressure of the playoffs.  If he went to start on a sub-par team, I see him getting fat and playing out of his abilities.  I'd like to see them pick up BBD and drop Leon, as much as I like him personally.

[wiley]

I love when dead posts are brought back to life and just look completely foolish.

I'm sure I was way off on the amount...but are you saying that Baby's value was predetermined before the start of these playoffs?

Could be an interesting discussion regarding young players in contract years...

I wasn't calling your thread foolish.  I'm saying that now it looks foolish, due to the outcome of tonight's game.  You obviously didn't have the ability to look two days into the future when starting the thread.  And now you'll probably get a lot of toldyasos.  It's just funny how that works out.

Thanks man. 

And I do think the Celts will be able to resign Glen despite his 5 million dollar performance in tonight's game

I'm confident that he'll be back with us.  He's showing tremendous game in just his second year in the pros.  But LOL at the million-dollar fluctuations from game to game. 

On the other hand, it is a game of millions, and all contract year players in the playoffs, especially the younger ones who've just barely emerged, are under one whopper of a microscope...At least that's what I've been led to believe about modern sports and the millionaires with their armies of scouts and stat geeks....Luckily Glen is a guy who looks focused on winning first and contract second...5 mil was a joke.

Glen is one of those guys who needs to play for a contender.  He needs KG yelling in his ear and needs the pressure of the playoffs.  If he went to start on a sub-par team, I see him getting fat and playing out of his abilities.  I'd like to see them pick up BBD and drop Leon, as much as I like him personally.

Agree completely.  Discipline needed.  And he'll have more lift when he's not forced to play 35 minutes or whatever he's been playing.  More lift and general spark-plugginess.
Until Garnett is back to full-time playing with no trouble, I dont' mind the strategic aspect of resigning Leon as well as Glen.   I think we should collect a swarm of bigs for next year.  We can hope for Leon as insurance towards the end of next year.  Also a big fan of his mental makeup.

[Cman]

So basically the Cs MLE will be used on BBD this offseason.

Hopefully we can also sign a decent vet PG for the vet min (Anthony Carter?), and then use the LLE (which I think we still have, or is that what we used on POB?) on a backup Center.  Then trade Tony, Scal and Walker for a backup SF.

Why would we use the MLE? Isn't he a restricted free agent? I don't see us renouncing rights. Are the restrictions to how much of a raise we can give him without using the MLE?

I may have this wrong, so feel free to correct me.... 

I believe that since BBD only signed a 2 year deal, we can offer him something like 130% of what he was making this year.  Since BBD makes about $700M this year, that equates to about $900M.  If that is the max the Cs are willing to offer him, he will leave and sign elsewhere.  The only way to avoid that happening is for the Cs to use a portion of the MLE to sign BBD.

To give an idea of the going rate for a good backup big man, Ronny Turiaf gets over $4M per year; Carl Landry gets $3M per year.  It is not unreasonable to imagine BBD getting a 3-4 yr contract starting at close to $4M per year.

All that said, I am fine with using that kind of money to pay BBD.  He has shown that he is clutch, and he has the heart of a champion. 

[GeoDim]

I love when dead posts are brought back to life and just look completely foolish.

I'm sure I was way off on the amount...but are you saying that Baby's value was predetermined before the start of these playoffs?

Could be an interesting discussion regarding young players in contract years...

I wasn't calling your thread foolish.  I'm saying that now it looks foolish, due to the outcome of tonight's game.  You obviously didn't have the ability to look two days into the future when starting the thread.  And now you'll probably get a lot of toldyasos.  It's just funny how that works out.

Thanks man. 

And I do think the Celts will be able to resign Glen despite his 5 million dollar performance in tonight's game

I'm confident that he'll be back with us.  He's showing tremendous game in just his second year in the pros.  But LOL at the million-dollar fluctuations from game to game. 

On the other hand, it is a game of millions, and all contract year players in the playoffs, especially the younger ones who've just barely emerged, are under one whopper of a microscope...At least that's what I've been led to believe about modern sports and the millionaires with their armies of scouts and stat geeks....Luckily Glen is a guy who looks focused on winning first and contract second...5 mil was a joke.

Glen is one of those guys who needs to play for a contender.  He needs KG yelling in his ear and needs the pressure of the playoffs.  If he went to start on a sub-par team, I see him getting fat and playing out of his abilities.  I'd like to see them pick up BBD and drop Leon, as much as I like him personally.

Agree completely.  Discipline needed.  And he'll have more lift when he's not forced to play 35 minutes or whatever he's been playing.  More lift and general spark-plugginess.
Until Garnett is back to full-time playing with no trouble, I dont' mind the strategic aspect of resigning Leon as well as Glen.   I think we should collect a swarm of bigs for next year.  We can hope for Leon as insurance towards the end of next year.  Also a big fan of his mental makeup.

You can't question Powe's will or toughness, but he is very early in his career and this year alone he's had problems with both knees.  Putting my own personal feelings aside, I would vote to not resign him.  He's an undersized PF that can't stay healthy.  If they can afford to resign him, that's great, but I wouldn't resign him if it hurts our chances in getting some size or a backup at the 3 spot.

[Fafnir]

So basically the Cs MLE will be used on BBD this offseason.

Hopefully we can also sign a decent vet PG for the vet min (Anthony Carter?), and then use the LLE (which I think we still have, or is that what we used on POB?) on a backup Center.  Then trade Tony, Scal and Walker for a backup SF.

Why would we use the MLE? Isn't he a restricted free agent? I don't see us renouncing rights. Are the restrictions to how much of a raise we can give him without using the MLE?

I may have this wrong, so feel free to correct me.... 

I believe that since BBD only signed a 2 year deal, we can offer him something like 130% of what he was making this year.  Since BBD makes about $700M this year, that equates to about $900M.  If that is the max the Cs are willing to offer him, he will leave and sign elsewhere.  The only way to avoid that happening is for the Cs to use a portion of the MLE to sign BBD.

To give an idea of the going rate for a good backup big man, Ronny Turiaf gets over $4M per year; Carl Landry gets $3M per year.  It is not unreasonable to imagine BBD getting a 3-4 yr contract starting at close to $4M per year.

All that said, I am fine with using that kind of money to pay BBD.  He has shown that he is clutch, and he has the heart of a champion. 

You are wrong. We have the ability to sign him up to the MLE with our early bird rights. No other team can offer him more than the MLE, this is the Gilbert Arenas rule.

From http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q27 :

With the previous CBA it was sometimes possible to sign restricted free agents to offer sheets their original teams couldn't match. This happened when a player was an Early Bird or Non-Bird free agent (see question number 19) and the team didn't have enough cap room to match a sufficiently large offer. For example, Gilbert Arenas was Golden State's second round draft pick in 2001, and became an Early Bird free agent in 2003. Golden State therefore could only match an offer sheet (or sign Arenas themselves) for up to the average salary (see question number 24), which was about $4.9 million. Washington signed Arenas to an offer sheet with a starting salary of about $8.5 million, which Golden State was powerless to match.

This loophole was addressed in the current CBA (although not closed completely -- see below). Teams are now limited in the salary they can offer in an offer sheet to a restricted free agent with one or two years in the league. The first-year salary in the offer sheet cannot be greater than the average salary (see question number 24). Limiting the first year salary in this way guarantees that the player's original team will be able to match the offer sheet by using the Early Bird exception (if applicable -- see question number 19), or Mid-Level exception (provided they haven't used it already).

EARLY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is a weaker form of the Larry Bird exception, and is also a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. A player qualifies for this exception essentially after playing two seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent (see question number 25 for details). Using this exception, a team may re-sign its own free agent for 175% of his salary the previous season or the average player salary, whichever is greater (see question number 24 for the definition of "average salary." Also note that for 2005-06 they used a defined figure of $5 million). Early Bird contracts must be for at least two seasons (which limits this exception's usefulness -- it's often better to take a lower salary for one more season and then have the full Bird exception available the next season) and no longer than five seasons. A player can receive raises up to 10.5% of the salary in the first season of the contract using this exception.

If the player was a first round draft pick and just completed the second year of his rookie scale contract, but his team did not exercise their option to extend the contract for the third season (see question number 38), then this exception cannot be used to give him a salary greater than he would have received had the team exercised their third year option. In other words, teams can't decline the option in order to get around the salary scale and give the player more money.

If the player is a restricted free agent with two years of service and receives an offer sheet from a new team, the player's prior team may use the Early Bird exception to match the offer sheet (see question number 36 for restricted free agency).

Starting January 10 of each season, this exception begins to reduce in value. See question number 20 for details.

[Roy Hobbs]

Backing up what Fafnir said (and for those who don't like reading Larry Coon), we can resign BBD for any amount up to and including the amount of the MLE using "early Bird" rights.  By doing so, we wouldn't need to use our MLE.

Other teams are limited to giving BBD a deal for the amount of the MLE in the first two years of his next contract.  However, after that, they can give him a big raise in the third year and beyond.  If they do that, we could still match his contract, but I believe we'd have to use our MLE to do so.  (This last part isn't completely clear to me.  However, it should be a moot point, as I doubt any team wants to pay BBD more than the MLE amount in the third year of his deal).

[Cman]

I may have this wrong, so feel free to correct me.... 

You are wrong. We have the ability to sign him up to the MLE with our early bird rights. No other team can offer him more than the MLE, this is the Gilbert Arenas rule.

From http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q27 :

Backing up what Fafnir said (and for those who don't like reading Larry Coon), we can resign BBD for any amount up to and including the amount of the MLE using "early Bird" rights.  By doing so, we wouldn't need to use our MLE.

Other teams are limited to giving BBD a deal for the amount of the MLE in the first two years of his next contract.  However, after that, they can give him a big raise in the third year and beyond.  If they do that, we could still match his contract, but I believe we'd have to use our MLE to do so.  (This last part isn't completely clear to me.  However, it should be a moot point, as I doubt any team wants to pay BBD more than the MLE amount in the third year of his deal).

Thanks for the corrections.

I usually don't like being wrong, but I am happy to be wrong in this case as it means the Cs will have more flexibility in the offseason. 

[Fafnir]

Yeah the C's can resign BBD this offseason. Whether we will or not remains to be seen. Hopefully he doesn't get a full MLE type of offer and we can get him for a little bit more reasonable price. But Turiaf got a big offer sheet, I expect baby will get a similar deal.

Perk's 4 years at around 4 per worked out for us well. Maybe Baby would too for that type of money...

[bknova]

I'm just saying here, but other than those jumpers at the end of the game, he played like crap throughout the game.  His defense outside the paint is atrocious.  His D is pretty good in the post.  His moving screens are abundant, and he doesn't rebound well.  Personally I think he and Scal are the biggest beneficiaries of playing with three HOFs, and a borderline fourth all star.  Anyone who overpays him next year is seriously gonna regret it. 

[nickagneta]

I'm just saying here, but other than those jumpers at the end of the game, he played like crap throughout the game.  His defense outside the paint is atrocious.  His D is pretty good in the post.  His moving screens are abundant, and he doesn't rebound well.  Personally I think he and Scal are the biggest beneficiaries of playing with three HOFs, and a borderline fourth all star.  Anyone who overpays him next year is seriously gonna regret it. 

ESPN's Daily Dime had a decent article concerning Baby but also an amazing stat look at Baby's fourth quarter versus that of the entire rest of the Celtics team.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-090511

Anyway in the fourth quarter yesterday.

Baby had 7 points...rest of Celtics 9
Baby was 3-4...rest of Celtics 4-12
Baby had 5 rebounds...rest of Celtics 5
Baby was 1-2 from the FT line...rest of Celtics 1-2.

So I find it interesting that you say Baby's last two shots were the only good things he did last night when he almost single handedly outplayed the rest of the Celtics team, statistically. He had an awesome fourth quarter and was even victimized by a horrible call against him in that Lewis foul with 11 seconds remaining as just about every ref in the league but the ref that blew that whistle, would have let that go.

[jdpapa3]

I'm just saying here, but other than those jumpers at the end of the game, he played like crap throughout the game.  His defense outside the paint is atrocious.  His D is pretty good in the post.  His moving screens are abundant, and he doesn't rebound well.  Personally I think he and Scal are the biggest beneficiaries of playing with three HOFs, and a borderline fourth all star.  Anyone who overpays him next year is seriously gonna regret it. 

He's covering a guy he simply can not stay with. He can't really be blamed for letting Lewis get by him.