Where does Rondo rank among NBA PGs today?

[celticmaestro]

CP3
D Williams
C Billups
T Parker
S Nash/R Rondo

That's pretty much how I see it, when looking at all-around game.  If "Playoff Rondo" shows up consistently in the regular season, then I think he moves up that list.

I agree. Although I'm tempted to flip Nash/Rondo with Parker.

[Scribbles]

1- Billups
2- Paul
3- Williams
4- Parker
5- Rondo
6- Harris
7- Nash
8- Davis
9- Calderon
10-Miller

You could switch Rondo and Parker IMO.  I also find it funny how fast we forget about Baron Davis after just a few season's ago he was leading Golden State over the #1 seeded Mavs.  He may play on a bad team and is older now, but he's still top 10.  

[Roy Hobbs]

Only five players in the history of the game have ever averaged a triple double for a playoff series. To me, five is not plenty. Don't try and diminish the fact that Rondo has put up extraordinary numbers thus far in the playoffs. Though he just barely missed averaging a triple double last playoff series, Rondo was and is in elite company, not the company of "plenty of good players."

How does saying "averaging close to a triple double does not on its own make Rondo better than CP3 and Deron Williams" equate to diminishing Rondo's accomplishments? 

I'm sorry if I'm not genuflecting enough; I've described Rondo's overall post-season with words such as "excellent", "excellent", and "great", but to make some happy, it seems as though I should use a bit more hyperbole.  Or, with Rondo, can there ever truly be any hyperbole?  Best Celtic since Russell? Or is that underrating him?

By the reasoning I was disagreeing with, we should all just concede that Rondo is the fourth best point guard of all-time, only behind Magic, Oscar, and Kidd.  I'm not ready to do that.  Are you?

[Birdbrain]

From last season to post season to this season to this post season, rondo is climbing the ladder rapidly.

He should be about number 5.

By the way.. Rondo's defense is FAR superior to Chris (defensive 1st team) Paul.

Right now I'll rank:

1. Paul
2. Williams
3. Billups
4. Rondo
5. Rose
6. Parker

And the difference bewtween them all is marginal. Certainly all these guys are a head of Mo Williams, Jameer Nelson, etc...

By the way, Tony Parker has got to be the most overrated PG in the NBA. He's good, but he's no superstar. - poor to mediocre defense, streaky outside shot, undersized, average passer for a PG.

He's got speed, an improved mid range game and Tim Duncan.

He's a 2 in 1's body.

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

By the reasoning I was disagreeing with, we should all just concede that Rondo is the fourth best point guard of all-time, only behind Magic, Oscar, and Kidd.  I'm not ready to do that.

Ummm... why not?

 

[Reggie's Ghost]

How does saying "averaging close to a triple double does not on its own make Rondo better than CP3 and Deron Williams" equate to diminishing Rondo's accomplishments?

By the reasoning I was disagreeing with, we should all just concede that Rondo is the fourth best point guard of all-time, only behind Magic, Oscar, and Kidd.  I'm not ready to do that.  Are you?

I think if you go back and reread this post you might be able to see why some have taken it as a jab at Rondo's extraordinary post-season.  You do, after all, equate Rondo to Fat Lever (a good player but a comparison that suggests he is over-achieving):

I think *way* too much is made of this triple double thing.  Unless, of course, people would prefer Fat Lever over players like Bob Cousy, Isiah Thomas, John Stockon, or heck, even Larry Bird and Michael Jordan.

That being said, I don't think you'll get much of an argument here that Rondo has achieved as much as Bob Cousy, Isiah Thomas, John Stockton, Larry Bird or Michael Jordan.  If that's all you meant to say, then I think we can all agree...

[Roy Hobbs]

How does saying "averaging close to a triple double does not on its own make Rondo better than CP3 and Deron Williams" equate to diminishing Rondo's accomplishments?

By the reasoning I was disagreeing with, we should all just concede that Rondo is the fourth best point guard of all-time, only behind Magic, Oscar, and Kidd.  I'm not ready to do that.  Are you?

I think if you go back and reread this post you might be able to see why some have taken it as a jab at Rondo's extraordinary post-season.  You do, after all, equate Rondo to Fat Lever (a good player but a comparison that suggests he is over-achieving):

I think *way* too much is made of this triple double thing.  Unless, of course, people would prefer Fat Lever over players like Bob Cousy, Isiah Thomas, John Stockon, or heck, even Larry Bird and Michael Jordan.

That being said, I don't think you'll get much of an argument here that Rondo has achieved as much as Bob Cousy, Isiah Thomas, John Stockton, Larry Bird or Michael Jordan.  If that's all you meant to say, then I think we can all agree...

Two things:

1) You can't analyze the statement without looking at what came immediately before it, i.e., that Rondo was better than CP3 and Deron because he almost averaged a triple double; and

2) As discussed in another thread, Fat Lever was a pretty good player, and in his prime was putting up better numbers than Rondo did this year, even when adjusted for pace.  However, the fact that he averaged a triple double over a series did not elevate him above those players who never did (Isiah, Stockton, Cousy etc. among point guards, Larry and Michael among others).

My point was that I don't buy into the argument that "because Rondo almost averaged a triple double and CP3 / Williams didn't, Rondo must be better".  In my opinion, that's an abuse of statistics, and ignores a lot of facts (like the entire body of the regular season).  Nobody is arguing whether Rondo is a talented player, or is having a great playoffs.  However, to argue that he's better than Chris Paul or Deron Williams at this point, based solely upon 8 games, doesn't seem justifiable.

[ToppersBsktball10]

I agree, if he gets a more consistent jump shot then he's gonna be number 2.

[Reggie's Ghost]

Two things:

1) You can't analyze the statement without looking at what came immediately before it, i.e., that Rondo was better than CP3 and Deron because he almost averaged a triple double; and

2) As discussed in another thread, Fat Lever was a pretty good player, and in his prime was putting up better numbers than Rondo did this year, even when adjusted for pace.  However, the fact that he averaged a triple double over a series did not elevate him above those players who never did (Isiah, Stockton, Cousy etc. among point guards, Larry and Michael among others).

My point was that I don't buy into the argument that "because Rondo almost averaged a triple double and CP3 / Williams didn't, Rondo must be better".  In my opinion, that's an abuse of statistics, and ignores a lot of facts (like the entire body of the regular season).  Nobody is arguing whether Rondo is a talented player, or is having a great playoffs.  However, to argue that he's better than Chris Paul or Deron Williams at this point, based solely upon 8 games, doesn't seem justifiable.

Yeah, obviously I agree with all of that, although there is something to be said about playing well when it matters most that highlights playoff achievement over regular season play.  Also, Rondo has been playing brilliantly like this all season, esp since the Garnett injury.

I still understand why folks took that original post of yours to be a jab, though.  It does have an implication that Rondo's achievement doesn't correlate at all to his abilities as a player overall.  Some folks see their tone and other don't, either way I put Paul over Rondo any day of the week at this point in their careers...

[Roy Hobbs]

I still understand why folks took that original post of yours to be a jab, though.  It does have an implication that Rondo's achievement doesn't correlate at all to his abilities as a player overall. 

That's the thing, though:  if people feel that way, it's because they have very little appreciation for Fat Lever.  No, he's not a Hall of Famer, but he was a good player.  One year, he averaged 19.8 ppg / 9.8 rpg / 7.9 apg / 2.7 spg (albeit playing in a fast-paced offense).  Even if I was drawing a direct correlation between the two players (which I wasn't) why is it an insult?

Fat Lever was a good player, but he wasn't as good as players who never averaged a triple double (Cousy, Stockton, Isiah, etc.)  Rondo is a good player, but he isn't as good as players that have never nearly averaged a triple double, such as Chris Paul. 

Anyway, this has been beat to death.

[kenmaine]

1- Chris Paul
2- Rondo
3- Williams/Parker?
4- D. Rose(maybe #2 by next year)

[housecall]

Because i place consistency high on my list when evaluating a player,Rondo probably will be around #7-8 in the league at this time and thats still high considering all the pg's in the league.

[Reggie's Ghost]

Anyway, this has been beat to death.

Agreed.  Good game, see you out on the field...  

[pearljammer10]

If your just looking at playoff Rondo he gets the number one slot easily...A few decimals off of a triple double...My oh my is he exciting.

[MMacOH]

Rondo is definiely coming into his own, but lets make sure to consider the caliber of team he has been playing against in these games.  Derrick Rose and Raefer Alston don't play good defense.

Rondo knows his strengths:  penetrating the lane, dishing the ball and playing defense.  He is definitely one of the top 7-10 PGs in the league, but to compare him to CP3 and Deron Williams is a being a bit biased.