Ben Gordon's Post-Three Gesture in Game 4

[Neurotic Guy]

Ben Gordon drilled a brilliant 3 in overtime to tie the game after turning in an amazing performance.  Watching the highlight clip of the shot note the quick cut away just after the start of his post-shot celebration.  The clip attempts to avoid the prolonged crotch-grab that in real time seemed like it lasted a good 3-count. This was not an adjustment, but a full-fledged grab intended to communicate something.

The incident leaves me wondering a few things:
1) Since I am of an older generation, perhaps I am misunderstanding the gesture.  Please tell me if this was intended as a show of good will and friendship -- or at least something more benign than a vulgar taunt. BTW, I am not attempting to make a moral judgment here, rather, just wondering if I am interpreting this correctly given that I am 20 years older than Ben Gordon and perhaps am out of touch (so to speak) with the modern day meaning of this gesture.

2) If this were a 3-second long waving of the middle finger, would it not have received at least some reaction from a) the crowd, b) the TV analysts, 3) the referees (a technical?), 4) the league? 

3) How exactly is the prolonged crotch-grabbing less outrageous or contentious than a middle finger wave or perhaps raising your hand in something that could be interpreted  as a gang sign which would clearly have caused an uproar (see Paul Pierce)?

Not the most important issue on earth, but BG is a 30-year old who had just made the biggest shot of his career, on the biggest stage he's had, and follows it up with something I would guess David Stern would say is behavior he would not wish to condone.  Probably worse that not wearing business casual on the bench.  Yet, I haven't heard a word. 

And please don't say 'lighten up' in response -- if you are thinking that I am taking this very seriously you are misreading my intent (or I've done a poor job of expressing myself).

[yall hate]

I think he was likely saying 'suck it'.

[Neurotic Guy]

I think he was likely saying 'suck it'.

Being careful not to bring the thread down -- I'll say I agree with you and given this  likely interpretation, how is it that there is no league reaction?  Does this occur more often than I am aware?  Obviously it's not the first time I've seen this gesture, but it just seemed like it occurred so blatantly at a highly visible NBA moment -- I would think Stern would see this as behavior unbecoming a player in this league.

I am surmising by the lack of reaction to this thread that perhaps I was the only one who gave it a second thought...

[CelticHooligan3]

The gesture is basically Ben Gordon saying hes got big ones... And the confidence and B**ls to take the shot. A former Celtic was the first to use and perfect this celebratory method. He goes by the name of Alien or E.T. aka Sam Cassell. The way old sam did it was a lot more playful, entertaining, and not as blatantly obvious. When i first saw sam do it i thought it was some sort of sasquatch walk or gorilla walk cause his arms and hands were really hanging down there pretty far. But then it hit me and i realized what sam was communicating to everyone in the building including the other team lol. Im sure theres a clip of him doing it somewhere on the internet. I beleive he was on the Wolves at the time.

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

Hey Neurotic Guy:

It's been reported that the NBA contacted Gordon and the Bulls organization to warn them that another crotch grab would result in a fine.  

Personally, I think that's the way it should be handled, but, in thinking back to last year, when Pierce got his ridiculous fine for the 'menacing gesture' during Game 3 of the Hawks series, I think it shows a clear double standard.  Pierce gives an ambiguous hand gesture and the NBA steps in and divines his intent as menacing and fines him.  A year later, Gordon makes an unambiguous hand gesture where intent is pretty well establish ('suck it' is as good an interpretation as any) and he gets a warning not to do it again.  If Pierce was fined, so should Gordon.

On top of the crotch grab, Gordon also puts an "A-OK" sign (index finger and thumb make a circle) over his eye after he hits a three, which is pretty much the EXACT same thing the NBA interpreted as being a 'menacing gesture' when Pierce did it in Atlanta.  Again, another instance of double standard.

[cdif911]

but when Sam Cassell did his mine are bigger dance, it was cool

[clover]

And Cassell is supposed to have got his 'dance' from this bit in the film Major League II:

http://ballhype.com/video/the_origin_of_the_big_balls_dance_1/

[Neurotic Guy]

Hey Neurotic Guy:

It's been reported that the NBA contacted Gordon and the Bulls organization to warn them that another crotch grab would result in a fine.  

Personally, I think that's the way it should be handled, but, in thinking back to last year, when Pierce got his ridiculous fine for the 'menacing gesture' during Game 3 of the Hawks series, I think it shows a clear double standard.  Pierce gives an ambiguous hand gesture and the NBA steps in and divines his intent as menacing and fines him.  A year later, Gordon makes an unambiguous hand gesture where intent is pretty well establish ('suck it' is as good an interpretation as any) and he gets a warning not to do it again.  If Pierce was fined, so should Gordon.

On top of the crotch grab, Gordon also puts an "A-OK" sign (index finger and thumb make a circle) over his eye after he hits a three, which is pretty much the EXACT same thing the NBA interpreted as being a 'menacing gesture' when Pierce did it in Atlanta.  Again, another instance of double standard.

Thanks for the info, Salmon. Good to hear the NBA at least responded -- it shows at least some level of consistent practice relative to addressing behavioral expectations.  As you point out there appears to be inconsistency in how they respond to these issues -- but at least this one made it onto the radar.

Opinions: Is a sustained crotch-grab (BG's business-like version rather than the Cassell dance version) more, less or equally heinous than a raising of the middle finger?  I have to believe 'the finger' would come with an automatic fine and perhaps a 'T'.

[crownsy]

Hey Neurotic Guy:

It's been reported that the NBA contacted Gordon and the Bulls organization to warn them that another crotch grab would result in a fine.  

Personally, I think that's the way it should be handled, but, in thinking back to last year, when Pierce got his ridiculous fine for the 'menacing gesture' during Game 3 of the Hawks series, I think it shows a clear double standard.  Pierce gives an ambiguous hand gesture and the NBA steps in and divines his intent as menacing and fines him.  A year later, Gordon makes an unambiguous hand gesture where intent is pretty well establish ('suck it' is as good an interpretation as any) and he gets a warning not to do it again.  If Pierce was fined, so should Gordon.

On top of the crotch grab, Gordon also puts an "A-OK" sign (index finger and thumb make a circle) over his eye after he hits a three, which is pretty much the EXACT same thing the NBA interpreted as being a 'menacing gesture' when Pierce did it in Atlanta.  Again, another instance of double standard.

Thanks for the info, Salmon. Good to hear the NBA at least responded -- it shows at least some level of consistent practice relative to addressing behavioral expectations.  As you point out there appears to be inconsistency in how they respond to these issues -- but at least this one made it onto the radar.

Opinions: Is a sustained crotch-grab (BG's business-like version rather than the Cassell dance version) more, less or equally heinous than a raising of the middle finger?  I have to believe 'the finger' would come with an automatic fine and perhaps a 'T'.

after seeing that clip (TP btw) i have to conclude that cassells is even more hilarious than i previously thought, because i am a huge Major League mark

[Amonkey]

Remember in the WWF when that had wrestlers doing the "suck it suck it" gesture.  I don't even remember who was the wrestler that did it, but it was like the Rock's "can you smell what the Rock is cooking" line.  Anyway, the wrestler would cross his hands right at that region and say "suck it" and it was supposed to be humiliating.

[EJPLAYA]

I think he was making a circle and having the other three fingers in the air. My interpretation was that he was saying "three in your eye" as I only saw him do that when someone was draped all over him. I have no problem with that if that is the case, however if he is grabbing his crotch that has to stop. This is supposed to be family entertainment and that isn't cool.

[guava_wrench]

Ben Gordon drilled a brilliant 3 in overtime to tie the game after turning in an amazing performance in Game 2.  Watching the highlight clip of the shot note the quick cut away just after the start of his post-shot celebration.  The clip attempts to avoid the prolonged crotch-grab that in real time seemed like it lasted a good 3-count. This was not an adjustment, but a full-fledged grab intended to communicate something.

The incident leaves me wondering a few things:
1) Since I am of an older generation, perhaps I am misunderstanding the gesture.  Please tell me if this was intended as a show of good will and friendship -- or at least something more benign than a vulgar taunt. BTW, I am not attempting to make a moral judgment here, rather, just wondering if I am interpreting this correctly given that I am 20 years older than Ben Gordon and perhaps am out of touch (so to speak) with the modern day meaning of this gesture.

2) If this were a 3-second long waving of the middle finger, would it not have received at least some reaction from a) the crowd, b) the TV analysts, 3) the referees (a technical?), 4) the league? 

3) How exactly is the prolonged crotch-grabbing less outrageous or contentious than a middle finger wave or perhaps raising your hand in something that could be interpreted  as a gang sign which would clearly have caused an uproar (see Paul Pierce)?

Not the most important issue on earth, but BG is a 30-year old who had just made the biggest shot of his career, on the biggest stage he's had, and follows it up with something I would guess David Stern would say is behavior he would not wish to condone.  Probably worse that not wearing business casual on the bench.  Yet, I haven't heard a word. 

And please don't say 'lighten up' in response -- if you are thinking that I am taking this very seriously you are misreading my intent (or I've done a poor job of expressing myself).

KG grabbed his crotch the same way when Ray Allen hit the game winning 3 in game 2. In other words, Gordon was returning the favor.

[cool breeze]

Here's what KG thought about it:

[Neurotic Guy]

KG grabbed his crotch the same way when Ray Allen hit the game winning 3 in game 2. In other words, Gordon was returning the favor.

I had the game wrong. I was thinking that Gordon's crotch grab was in Game 2 when he tied the game at 115-115. But I believe you are correct that the incident I am referring to was in game 4.

The fact that Garnett did the same doesn't mitigate Gordon's actions in my view, it just makes me think that Garnett should be likewise reprimanded.