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A question about our bench
« on: April 28, 2009, 05:46:44 AM »

Offline vagrantwade

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Why exactly do Celtic fans here complain about our bench's productivity in a game where 3 out of 5 of our bench players didn't play more than 6 minutes in a double OT game?

Just wondering, I am new here.

Re: A question about our bench
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2009, 05:53:03 AM »

Offline pengaloo

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Mikki Moore.

Re: A question about our bench
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2009, 06:14:18 AM »

Offline vagrantwade

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Mikki Moore.

Then why don't we complain about Mikki Moore's 6 minutes?

Re: A question about our bench
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2009, 06:33:49 AM »

Offline kenmaine

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Well, IMO, our bench is Eddie House and Scal right now.
 Marbury hasn't done much of anything, TA is way too unreliable, and Mikki Moore is horrible and a whipping boy for the refs. Doc just isn't going to play Walker(I wouldn't either- too raw), and Pruitt is awful.
So, other than using House and Marbury a little more than he has, I can't question Doc too much for his use of the bench.

Re: A question about our bench
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2009, 06:49:21 AM »

Offline vagrantwade

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Well, IMO, our bench is Eddie House and Scal right now.
 Marbury hasn't done much of anything, TA is way too unreliable, and Mikki Moore is horrible and a whipping boy for the refs. Doc just isn't going to play Walker(I wouldn't either- too raw), and Pruitt is awful.
So, other than using House and Marbury a little more than he has, I can't question Doc too much for his use of the bench.

What more did you want Marbury to do in 5 minutes on the wing?

Re: A question about our bench
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2009, 07:48:11 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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Because it's so inept that the coach doesn't feel like he can afford to play the majority of them.

We've got three key players who are older - and has been proven - injury-prone. For that reason alone, if we're going to win another title we've got to have more proven talent on that bench.

Marbury's erratic, although I'd give him a little more burn. Tony Allen can't stay in the game mentally long enough to defend for one possession. The Ganja Foul Machine is pushing hard for the Patrick O'Bryant Memorial Least Valuable Celtic award. Walker's immature and raw, Pruitt isn't any good.

Hard for me to blame Doc for losing faith in that group.
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Re: A question about our bench
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2009, 02:38:29 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Why exactly do Celtic fans here complain about our bench's productivity in a game where 3 out of 5 of our bench players didn't play more than 6 minutes in a double OT game?

Just wondering, I am new here.

We lost the game by three points.  Here's the point differential (+ / -) for several of our key bench players:

Stephon Marbury: -17 (5 minutes)
Tony Allen: -12 (3 minutes)
Mikki Moore: -9 (6 minutes)

I don't think the above is coincidental.  The Celtics got killed with those three guys on the floor, especially at the beginning of the second quarter (in terms of M & M).

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Re: A question about our bench
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2009, 03:29:06 PM »

Offline vagrantwade

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Why exactly do Celtic fans here complain about our bench's productivity in a game where 3 out of 5 of our bench players didn't play more than 6 minutes in a double OT game?

Just wondering, I am new here.

We lost the game by three points.  Here's the point differential (+ / -) for several of our key bench players:

Stephon Marbury: -17 (5 minutes)
Tony Allen: -12 (3 minutes)
Mikki Moore: -9 (6 minutes)

I don't think the above is coincidental.  The Celtics got killed with those three guys on the floor, especially at the beginning of the second quarter (in terms of M & M).

Having actually been at the game, I can say it was very much so coincidental.

Marbury was playing the 2 spot, and the 5 minutes he was in basically consisted of PP, Perkins, and Big Baby(not positive about his overlap) missing shots.

So I would hardly blame the bench for the Celtics inability to make a basket while the Bulls kept making shots off anything above the key or in the paint. A lot of the shots were circus shots as well.

Re: A question about our bench
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2009, 04:24:08 PM »

Offline QuinielaBox

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Our bench play as been atrocious and could well cost us the series.
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Re: A question about our bench
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2009, 04:30:12 PM »

Offline SalmonAndMashedPotatoes

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Why exactly do Celtic fans here complain about our bench's productivity in a game where 3 out of 5 of our bench players didn't play more than 6 minutes in a double OT game?

Just wondering, I am new here.

We lost the game by three points.  Here's the point differential (+ / -) for several of our key bench players:

Stephon Marbury: -17 (5 minutes)
Tony Allen: -12 (3 minutes)
Mikki Moore: -9 (6 minutes)

I don't think the above is coincidental.  The Celtics got killed with those three guys on the floor, especially at the beginning of the second quarter (in terms of M & M).

You should know better than to use +/- stats to reach any conclusion, Roy.  It's a very limited stat and I don't think we can put the loss on the above 3 players.  TA, especially, was used in offense/defense situations where he's only going to receive a minus or zero (if he's lucky).  In his first 30 seconds of playing time (all defensive possessions), he was already a -6.  On the other hand, a guy like Eddie House, who played absolutely terrible and got burned repeatedly down the stretch of the 4th quarter, got a +7 for the game, but that was more a product of being on the floor for only offensive situations at the end of regulation and overtime, times when guys got fouled, made free throws, or hit 3s (like Ray Allen did).   

Frankly, the only guy off the bench who has done anything positive during times when the game was in doubt was Marbury during the first half of Game 3.  Other than that, the bench has been pretty useless.  I think some of that falls on Doc, in the way he plays his rotation and in the way he wastes the talents of the guys he does bring off the bench.  Why play Eddie House if you aren't going to run a play to get him open?  Why sit TA in the corner when he was a strength/height advantage against the person guarding him?  Why use Marbury as basically a spot up shooter when Chicago has demonstrated repeatedly that they can't handle penetrating guards? 

If Doc wanted to get his bench going, he'd put in a couple special plays for Eddie tonight, to try to get him off as soon as he gets in the game...or he'd play Marbury at point right off the bat and get him into some pick-and-roll situations, or he'd post up TA against Gordon/Rose/Hinrich and see if he can get to the rim.....  But that probably won't happen; instead we're just going to see that same thing we've seen all year--the 2nd unit forcing the ball to Paul (or Ray), while wasting the talents of of everybody else.  The Bulls are probably prepared for anything we run featuring Paul playing with the 2nd unit.  Why not surprise them by using Paul as a decoy and running something that plays to the strengths of the guys coming off the bench?

Doc needs to trust his bench and put them into positions to succeed, instead of giving 6 minute stints to guys in the first half and them not playing them again the rest of the game...or playing guys for the first time all night w/30 seconds left in the game...
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