Tony Allen apologists, please stop

[CoachBo]

Uh, huh. Sure.

 

I recall reading on this board frequently last summer how much better off we'd be with TA over that other fella who we wouldn't pay to stay here.

Uh, no.

Finding a quality three to replace TA is a top priority in the off-season.

Are you suggesting that there are plenty of people out there that can guard Ben Gordon?
If so, you don't realize how good Gordon is.

I have no idea whatsoever where you came up with that post.

Of course, Gordon is a tough matchup.

However, it wasn't the greatness of Ben Gordon that induced Allen to go to sleep on him twice defensively, and then go to the bench where he belongs.

The guy is not a great defender, despite substantial effort on this blog to make him one. The reason, frankly, is because he's not terribly basketball intellgent.

I can't figure where you come up with your posts either. You're not happy unless your criticizing something like the fact that Tony messed up on Gordon. You make is sound like it's easy and if you've been watching the games you would know that it isn't.  The C's had this game and let it go. I think if there's criticism due it is that Pierce played slow and lazy and forced too much.

Slow and lazy? Overloaded with minutes, double-teamed and fouled all afternoon, and slow and lazy?

Incredible ...

Job one for the summer: Accumulating proven NBA bench players.

[elcotte]

Uh, huh. Sure.

 

I recall reading on this board frequently last summer how much better off we'd be with TA over that other fella who we wouldn't pay to stay here.

Uh, no.

Finding a quality three to replace TA is a top priority in the off-season.

Are you suggesting that there are plenty of people out there that can guard Ben Gordon?
If so, you don't realize how good Gordon is.

I have no idea whatsoever where you came up with that post.

Of course, Gordon is a tough matchup.

However, it wasn't the greatness of Ben Gordon that induced Allen to go to sleep on him twice defensively, and then go to the bench where he belongs.

The guy is not a great defender, despite substantial effort on this blog to make him one. The reason, frankly, is because he's not terribly basketball intellgent.

I can't figure where you come up with your posts either. You're not happy unless your criticizing something like the fact that Tony messed up on Gordon. You make is sound like it's easy and if you've been watching the games you would know that it isn't.  The C's had this game and let it go. I think if there's criticism due it is that Pierce played slow and lazy and forced too much.

Slow and lazy? Overloaded with minutes, double-teamed and fouled all afternoon, and slow and lazy?

Incredible ...

Yes, slow and lazy. He's not the only one playing on many minutes...maybe they should play Tony more to rest him.

[CoachBo]

Well, I'll just say this, in deference to the moderators:

I could not disagree with your characterization of Pierce's play, and by inference, Tony Allen's value to this team, more strongly.

[elcotte]

Well, I'll just say this, in deference to the moderators:

I could not disagree with your characterization of Pierce's play, and by inference, Tony Allen's value to this team, more strongly.

Right back at ya.

[wdleehi]

The lack of help defense was just as big of a problem.  Davis let Gordon get around him.  Perk, Scali or KG would have overplayed him forcing him back into TA.

[ScoobyDoo]

Doc has a habit of putting guys into situations that are difficult for them. Tonight, after sitting out nearly two months and after not having Played much at all in the first three games of thisseries and barely a second if any in the second half...Doc pull a cold Tony off the bench to try to guard the hottest guy on the floor. Given the circumstances he played "ok" defense. Gordon mad ea ridiculous shot.

Personally, unless TA had been engaged all game, I wouldn've gone with someone else who was more warmed up and had played more in the series. I though marbury had done a decent job of chasing Gordon in game three.

I've never liked Doc's habit of playing a guy basically zero minutes for a sereis or a game and then puttting them in a critical situation and on the "hot guy".

If Tony is to be effective at what he's best at he needs to put more into the rhytym of the game and sereis from the beginning of the series and from the beginnings of the games.   

[Greenbean]

Doc has a habit of putting guys into situations that are difficult for them. Tonight, after sitting out nearly two months and after not having Played much at all in the first three games of thisseries and barely a second if any in the second half...Doc pull a cold Tony off the bench to try to guard the hottest guy on the floor. Given the circumstances he played "ok" defense. Gordon mad ea ridiculous shot.

Personally, unless TA had been engaged all game, I wouldn've gone with someone else who was more warmed up and had played more in the series. I though marbury had done a decent job of chasing Gordon in game three.

I've never liked Doc's habit of playing a guy basically zero minutes for a sereis or a game and then puttting them in a critical situation and on the "hot guy".

If Tony is to be effective at what he's best at he needs to put more into the rhytym of the game and sereis from the beginning of the series and from the beginnings of the games.   

Man! You beat me to it. Tony really is not a good fit for this team anymore. He needs consistent and substantial minutes to become engaged. When he is thrust into situations like today he usually tightens up. He is a confidence guy and he'll never have enough of it to fulfil his talents playing behind PP and Ray Allen. It's time to move on and let Tony have a shot at success somewhere else. I really do love watching him play when he's on and not making dumb basketball decisions. Unfortunately, those moments have been few and far between the past few years.

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

I'm sorry but I don't know what Doc was thinking inserting Tony into the game when he did. Tony came in and did nothing but damage to the tune of 2 instant turnovers. Just thought I'd start the thread.

[CoachBo]

TA's Internet posse will be along soon.

We're both lucky you can't get shot on the Web, I suppose.

 

[Change]

As much as i hate TA i feel sorry for him, NOT!

Go away please. Ainge what a waste of Celtics $$$$$$$

[ScoobyDoo]

I don't if I think Tony is a waste. But I do think if you're going to use him in the playoffs, or anyone for that matter, it seems as though it should be with some consistency...so the player klnows what to expect and is engaged.

I understand the argument that you should be a professional and always "be ready" but I still think it is very tough to come in for 2 minutes at the end of a high intensity game after sitting for 48 minutes...

If you're going to use someone that sparingly and randomly, do it to the player in the 1st quarter when not so much is on the line.

Given our lack of depth I'm suprised Tony hasn't been used more. By more I mean maybe 10-15 minutes a game at least. 

[nickagneta]

Can we please stop with the excuse making and blaming of Doc for jobs not done by the bench. I had this same discussion last year about Eddie House early on in the playoffs. Eddie was brought in cold and missed shots and somehow that was Doc's fault for not using him. But later in the playoffs when it was clear Sam wasn't doing it, Eddie was brought in cold and delivered.

Point being, bench players are paid millions of dollars to come into a game cold and produce. That is their career. It's what they get paid to do. To blame Doc because Tony wasn't mentally prepared to play at his 100% best when he was called upon is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of.

Why is it when Leon is called upon he seems to make immediate impacts? Same for Baby when he was coming off the bench. Players across the league do it game and and game out. But Tony comes in, isn't prepared mentally for the speed of the game, falls behind Gordon and allows him to get the ball and great position and that's Doc's fault for not playing him??

Now I have heard everything?

[BballTim]

Uh, huh. Sure.

 

I recall reading on this board frequently last summer how much better off we'd be with TA over that other fella who we wouldn't pay to stay here.

Uh, no.

Finding a quality three to replace TA is a top priority in the off-season.

  I recall reading all last summer how much worse the team was going to play because of our bench and that Doc would have to run the big three into the ground to win games. When KG went out in late February our record was slightly better than what we had the year before with the big three playing about as many minutes as they did the year before. Your assessment of the team was slightly better than anyone who said TA would be better than Posey but well worse than those kool-aid drinkers who said that the team could be as good or better than last year despite losing Posey because of things like improved play from our younger players, better chemistry after a year together and the confidence that comes from winning a title. Don't hurt yourself patting your back.

  You might be right about the ref not calling an offensive foul on Gordon he clearly used one hand to ward off TA and shot with the other. TA's defense might not have been perfect but Gordon made a pretty difficult shot with TA right there. I'm guessing you watched the game where Gordon went for 42 and came to the conclusion that anyone who even pretends to play defense can easily shut him down, so it shouldn't have been a problem for TA. I'm assuming you wrote volumes about how Ray Allen wasn't able to execute junior high level defense after that game...

[ScoobyDoo]

Um, no, we can't stop blaming Doc for certain things. Everything is not black and white and there is plenty of blame to go around. Some guys may be ready, others won't. Not every player is a machine that performs exactly as needed when called on. That would be like saying you run a sales team of 12 people and you expect them all to react the same way to everything you ask and to perform at the exact same level at all times, like robots. That's the equivalent to saying all people are exactly the same and will react to all situations the exact same way. THAT is one of the  the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

All players are different, some need continuity, others don't. Tony is one that probably does and Leon probably doesn't. While Tony can be blamed for lack of concentration at times, it's also Doc's job to know how his players best respond and who can and who cannot be thrown into a last minute situaiton when they havent' seen the light of day for 3 games.

That's where the phrase the "9 man playoff rotation" comes from. Why coaches narrow down there roster "for the playoffs", because those 9 players are all heavily engaged from game one every game, they're dialed in and know what to expect. If others are used for spot minutes it's generally early and not when every play could decide the outcome of the game.

It's the coaches job to maximize his bench and figure out how 'best" to use each guy, how to best motivate each guy, knowing that each guy is different. Tony is NOT a guy that can come in cold, that has been the case with him since he's been here. The more steady burn he gets the better he plays. He's a guy who needs consistency, it's been clear to see that since he's been here. You don't throw him in with 2 minutes to go.

And yea, it is ok to blame Doc on certain things, just like everything else. Doesn't eman you're saying everything is Doc's fault. He did alot right as well.   

[noro]

Tony Allen : -12 in 3 minutes. Basically enough said.

How pitiful is that? The Bulls scored TWELVE more points than us in the THREE minutes Tony was in the game. If that's not the most telling stat i have no idea what is. Plus that huge turnover he had going up for a layup at the end of regulation...