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Top PG Debate
« on: April 24, 2009, 03:23:51 PM »

Offline rutzan

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There has been a considerable amount of debate as to who is the Top PG between CP, Deron Williams, Tony Parker and Rondo.  I think that debate is best answered by who fits the best with their team.  With that in mind, I feel the Top PG is Rondo, especially for the Celtics when you consider his rebounding, defense and above all his mentality.  You may disagree, but I think you can rule out CP and Deron Williams until they win a championship.  Tony Parker is a champion and a great fit for SA but I would still take Rondo as the Top PG based on the fact that he was the starting PG for an NBA champion and based on the fact that Rondo's mentality is a perfect fit for the Celtics.
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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2009, 03:32:36 PM »

Offline 2short

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I LOVE Rondo but the only debate is who is the #2 pg in the league.  Chris Paul is one of the best pgs I've EVER seen and yes I've seen quite a few.
Would I trade williams for rondo NO.
I actually posted this before but no one noticed.  :(
CP is the best pg in the league at already at the top of his game.  Williams is good (parker also but I don't consider him this level)
Our boy Rondo has even more room to improve his game.  He is a game changer, like bird, jordan , magic.  He can dominate without scoring.  Buuuuut he is averaging or close now a triple double in this series.  wow
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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2009, 03:39:53 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Agree with 2short - it's Paul, then it's everyone else jockeying for silver.  Rondo won a championship, but he was godawful for most of the Finals (he played virtually no part in the Game 4 comeback, for example).  Rondo plays with All-Star teammates - Paul makes mediocre teammates look like All-Stars (see West, David).

Here's my ranking for PGs:

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams (Williams is responsible for carrying his team and has to bring it every night for them to succeed - not true of Rondo yet)
3. Rondo
4. Chauncey Billups (still not getting enough credit despite all he's done in Denver)
5. Tony Longoria

Next group is the fading stars like Kidd and Nash, along with consistently solid guys like Andre Miller and rising stars like Nelson and Rose.
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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2009, 03:55:20 PM »

Offline rutzan

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another harsh and maybe unfair reality is evidenced and illustrated by the following:

stockton: great player but didn't win championship
malone: great player but didn't win championship
barkley: great player but didn't win championship
ewing: great player but didn't win championship
drexler: great player and won championship

I would argue that Rondo had as much pressure being the PG for an NBA champion and being accepted by 3 HOF as CP does in making his teammates better...West, Chandler and Peja are not HOF but they are not slouches either...

plus, I still think Rondo has huge upside still...he is just starting to hit his jumper...
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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2009, 03:59:09 PM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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Quote from: rutzan on April 24, 2009, 03:55:20 PM
another harsh and maybe unfair reality is evidenced and illustrated by the following:

stockton: great player but didn't win championship
malone: great player but didn't win championship
barkley: great player but didn't win championship
ewing: great player but didn't win championship
drexler: great player and won championship

There's absolutely a reality evidenced here, which is that it's absurd to compare players on an individual level simply by who has a championship and who doesn't, especially ones as early into their careers as some of those mentioned on this thread.

But if that's what we're doing, props to Derek Fisher for being on the receiving end of a metric that currently ranks him the fourth best active point guard in the NBA.

-sw
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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2009, 04:05:17 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Quote from: fairweatherfan on April 24, 2009, 03:39:53 PM
Agree with 2short - it's Paul, then it's everyone else jockeying for silver.  Rondo won a championship, but he was godawful for most of the Finals (he played virtually no part in the Game 4 comeback, for example).

  This might not be common knowledge but Rondo sprained his ankle in the middle of game 3. This accounts for much of his godawful play. He was great in game 2, he was great in game 6, and his game 1 (15 points, 5 boards, 7 assists) wasn't bad either.
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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2009, 04:09:30 PM »

Offline rutzan

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therein lies the fact that one needs an objective method and not a subjective method as a litmus test....obviously you can compare points, assists and rebounds, etc but a chamionship is an objective measure that one can use...this is still flawed but based on how much weight you give to a championship which is still subjective...i personally give a lot of weight to a championship when added to someone's overall play which unfortunately is still measured by statistics...case in point...AI...one of the great scorers of all time...how is he viewed...i think we all know the answer to that...it may be splitting hairs but when players are subjectively being compared with statistics as the best tool...championship pedigree pushes someone over the top...
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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2009, 04:10:14 PM »

Offline ToppersBsktball10

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cp3 is definitly #1
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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2009, 04:26:29 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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CP3 is the best right now becuase he's so good offensively but he can't shut down other elite PG's. Being a defensive guy i'd say Rondo becuase he can go out and give you 20pts10ast8reb, or 35pts8ast8reb on any given night. plus he's top 5 in steals. His star is starting to glow real bright.
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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2009, 04:36:13 PM »

Offline Celtics17

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Who is the best is always a confusing discussion because you never know for sure if people are talking about right now or in the near future. I will say, right now CP is the best. I will also say that he is certainly one of the best I have seen. Now, that being said, Rondo is quickly approaching the top 3 level status and quite frankly I would not trade Rondo for CP. Call me crazy but there is more to being the best pg then just passing and scoring. Defense is where Rondo has the overwhelming advantage and rebounding as well. Maybe he doesnt average as many assists or points but it's not because he cant. Let's have this same discussion after next year.
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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2009, 04:49:10 PM »

Offline cordobes

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Rondo is not in this conversation because he still isn't consistent. As I've always said, he needs to keep taking and hitting the open jumpers and punish teams for sagging off of him - once he sustains that effort for a longer period of time, and stops playing lackadaisical defence, he becomes a top PG in the league.

I was a big fan of Paul before he was the unanimous choice as the best PG in the league. In the last 2 seasons or so, I've changed my opinion and if I was to built a franchise, I'd pick Deron Williams ahead of Paul. Chris Paul is an amazing player and the top-2 in my list though.
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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2009, 04:56:40 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Rondo is playing out of his freakin mind right now.  His first 3 playoff games have been absurd.  So far only LeBron and Billups have put up better numbers.

But it's only been 3 games.   Until he starts putting up these kind of numbers consistently he's not close to CP and Deron... and probably below Parker, Nash, Kidd, Billups... and then somewhere in the list with Harris, Nelson, Mo Williams and of course Rose.
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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2009, 04:58:28 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Quote from: Celtics17 on April 24, 2009, 04:36:13 PM
Who is the best is always a confusing discussion because you never know for sure if people are talking about right now or in the near future. I will say, right now CP is the best. I will also say that he is certainly one of the best I have seen. Now, that being said, Rondo is quickly approaching the top 3 level status and quite frankly I would not trade Rondo for CP. Call me crazy but there is more to being the best pg then just passing and scoring. Defense is where Rondo has the overwhelming advantage and rebounding as well. Maybe he doesnt average as many assists or points but it's not because he cant. Let's have this same discussion after next year.

I wish you were running the Hornets.

Btw... I think Rondo is now my 2nd favorite Celtic behind Pierce.

But still...

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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2009, 06:13:34 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

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Somehow I have a feeling this will turn out like the Powe/Davis debacle.

I remember someone posting that he'll never be even an average shooter...ha that was just earlier this year.  The guy has made leaps and bounds in the department and he's only going to get better.  He'll be making a 3 a game by this time next year.

He is the 3rd best PG right now and clearly the best in the East.  He's a better defender than both Williams ( the best PG in league ) or Paul ( ESPNs favorite PG ). Tougher than both as well.
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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2009, 06:28:46 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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Quote from: LarBrd33 on April 24, 2009, 04:56:40 PM
Rondo is playing out of his freakin mind right now.  His first 3 playoff games have been absurd.  So far only LeBron and Billups have put up better numbers.

But it's only been 3 games.   Until he starts putting up these kind of numbers consistently he's not close to CP and Deron... and probably below Parker, Nash, Kidd, Billups... and then somewhere in the list with Harris, Nelson, Mo Williams and of course Rose.

I swear dog, you're a flat out hater.
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