Scal plays while KG sits. Who risks more by playing?

[jdpapa3]

Scal should wear a padded helmet.

Haha, why not?  Players wear face shields when they break their noses.  It would provide some comic relief, but it makes sense.

Lol, good point.  TP

Haha. I'm totally feeling this idea. Get him one of those soccer goalie things.
 

He really should get one of those special concussion mouthpieces. That helped my buddy out a lot for football. He stopped having concussions after he started wearing it.

[Fafnir]

The increased risk is that a concussion tomorrow for Paul Pierce likely means nothing.  that same concussion for Scal could have grave consequences. 

and it doesnt particularly matter how many there have been, as it only takes one more for potentially very serious results.

I think the problem is there is simply not enough clean data to determine whether the clear issue of people being more susceptible to concussions (and worse ones) after having them previously is simply because they are getting the second concussion before the first one has completely healed or not. 

Exactly. The studies they are doing now are showing that concussions are serious. But we don't have enough quality studies to determine whats the best course to treat them. Or even what the true long term effects are.

We certainly don't know enough to second guess Scal when he has clearly been seeing qualified doctors about this. He's been getting regular tests and care, if he's cleared I have to trust that he's ready to play.

[yall hate]

The increased risk is that a concussion tomorrow for Paul Pierce likely means nothing.  that same concussion for Scal could have grave consequences. 

and it doesnt particularly matter how many there have been, as it only takes one more for potentially very serious results.

I think the problem is there is simply not enough clean data to determine whether the clear issue of people being more susceptible to concussions (and worse ones) after having them previously is simply because they are getting the second concussion before the first one has completely healed or not. 

I was not intending to comment that his previous concussions would make him more likely to get another.  Simply, that another concussion, however it comes about could have serious consequences.  So if Scal got another, I wouldnt necessarily say it was because of the previous but the long term effects of another could be extreme.

[EJPLAYA]

This isn't football guys! How many concussions have you heard about in the NBA in the last 10 years?! Very few.

Maybe he should just run around wearing a helmet everywhere the rest of his life just in case someone bumps into him...

The prominence of high-school football and a judicial system that promotes litigations turned the American public perception of concussions into an over-dramatic emotional response.

Scal is perfectly fine, as he's certainly been asymptomatic for awhile. He doesn't risk more than any other player - or, if he does, it's a microscopic increase, perfectly negligible.

The increased risk is that a concussion tomorrow for Paul Pierce likely means nothing.  that same concussion for Scal could have grave consequences. 

and it doesnt particularly matter how many there have been, as it only takes one more for potentially very serious results.

The prominence of high-school football and a judicial system that promotes litigations turned the American public perception of concussions into an over-dramatic emotional response.

It's funny, I am not sure I have ever seen anyone make this argument.  generally, the argument is that we dont do enough to protect and recognize concussion/post concussion syndrome.

If anything, studies are coming out more and more showing the dangers...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/26/athlete.brains/index.html

You have no proof of "grave consequences" surrounding an additional concussion, especially with a grade 1 concussion. The only consensus amongst medical professionals of what long term affects could be is that there is no way to come to a consensus.

Football players like my man Zach Thomas have had numerous higher grade concussions, yet gone out and hit guys the rest of the year leading with their heads and not had any affects from it. Although I wouldn't risk things with the contact football players deal with unless I was way past any symptoms, basketball isn't the same thing. Throwing out scare words like "grave consequences" with no backup or facts is just nonsense. If there really were the dr's wouldn't let him play.

[moiso]

What we do know is that having a recent concussion makes you more prone to additional concussions.  That's why Scal got 3 consecutive concussions after never having a problem with them before.

[yall hate]

You have no proof of "grave consequences" surrounding an additional concussion, especially with a grade 1 concussion. The only consensus amongst medical professionals of what long term affects could be is that there is no way to come to a consensus.

Football players like my man Zach Thomas have had numerous higher grade concussions, yet gone out and hit guys the rest of the year leading with their heads and not had any affects from it. Although I wouldn't risk things with the contact football players deal with unless I was way past any symptoms, basketball isn't the same thing. Throwing out scare words like "grave consequences" with no backup or facts is just nonsense. If there really were the dr's wouldn't let him play.

I never stated that any consequences were a guarantee.  I stated that it COULD happen (yes, anything could happen, but this is clearly a situation where the chances are raised).

Yes, football players continue to play after numerous concussions.  and the emerging research (which has never been done before) is showing the grave consequences of this.  dead 40+ year old football players with brains that resemble 80+ year old alzheimer patients, etc...

I also never stated that the player is going to be hit and turn to mush on the spot.  Zach Thomas will likely have long term effects from his numerous concussions, although they may not present themselves for some years.

Again, I never stated that anything was fact, or a guarantee to happen, but that getting further concussions COULD lead to those consequences.

Feel free to read the articles on the recent studies which discuss the alarming facts...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/27/AR2009012703116.html
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/region/legislature/stories/04/06/0406concussion.html
http://wbztv.com/sports/patriots/ted.johnson.brain.2.824157.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/sports/football/24concussions.html?hp


Maybe Scal fit's into these categories...maybe not.  I dont think any of us can state definitively since we dont have his med records and no studies have proved conclusively the results...but my stating that it is possible is no different then your stating it isnt.

[yall hate]

It should also be noted that this is at least Scal's 5th concussion.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2009/03/02/diagnosis_is_real_jarring/

"There's more knowledge about it now - think about the old football players who had all those concussions and, unfortunately, you read about it now, them having health problems, severe. I think there is more education."

Doc Rivers

[Chris]

I never stated that any consequences were a guarantee.  I stated that it COULD happen (yes, anything could happen, but this is clearly a situation where the chances are raised).

This is the problem.  We don't even know if the chances are raised.  All we really know with any kind of certainty is that the chances are raised of further (and worse) concussions if they occur before the previous trauma has fully healed.  There is very little data so far dealing with traumas after the initial trauma has healed.

[Fafnir]

You have no proof of "grave consequences" surrounding an additional concussion, especially with a grade 1 concussion. The only consensus amongst medical professionals of what long term affects could be is that there is no way to come to a consensus.

Football players like my man Zach Thomas have had numerous higher grade concussions, yet gone out and hit guys the rest of the year leading with their heads and not had any affects from it. Although I wouldn't risk things with the contact football players deal with unless I was way past any symptoms, basketball isn't the same thing. Throwing out scare words like "grave consequences" with no backup or facts is just nonsense. If there really were the dr's wouldn't let him play.

Maybe Scal fit's into these categories...maybe not.  I dont think any of us can state definitively since we dont have his med records and no studies have proved conclusively the results...but my stating that it is possible is no different then your stating it isnt.

You did state that he should retire right now though. That is a very strong thing to say when you yourself acknoweledge the evidence isn't clear to what is dangerous and what isn't, and that none of us have access to Scal's medical records.

[yall hate]

You have no proof of "grave consequences" surrounding an additional concussion, especially with a grade 1 concussion. The only consensus amongst medical professionals of what long term affects could be is that there is no way to come to a consensus.

Football players like my man Zach Thomas have had numerous higher grade concussions, yet gone out and hit guys the rest of the year leading with their heads and not had any affects from it. Although I wouldn't risk things with the contact football players deal with unless I was way past any symptoms, basketball isn't the same thing. Throwing out scare words like "grave consequences" with no backup or facts is just nonsense. If there really were the dr's wouldn't let him play.

Maybe Scal fit's into these categories...maybe not.  I dont think any of us can state definitively since we dont have his med records and no studies have proved conclusively the results...but my stating that it is possible is no different then your stating it isnt.

You did state that he should retire right now though. That is a very strong thing to say when you yourself acknoweledge the evidence isn't clear to what is dangerous and what isn't, and that none of us have access to Scal's medical records.

Yea, I stated that I thought he should retire.  Because I dont think the risk is worth it. that is just a judgment call based on my perception of the risk.

[EJPLAYA]

You have no proof of "grave consequences" surrounding an additional concussion, especially with a grade 1 concussion. The only consensus amongst medical professionals of what long term affects could be is that there is no way to come to a consensus.

Football players like my man Zach Thomas have had numerous higher grade concussions, yet gone out and hit guys the rest of the year leading with their heads and not had any affects from it. Although I wouldn't risk things with the contact football players deal with unless I was way past any symptoms, basketball isn't the same thing. Throwing out scare words like "grave consequences" with no backup or facts is just nonsense. If there really were the dr's wouldn't let him play.

I never stated that any consequences were a guarantee.  I stated that it COULD happen (yes, anything could happen, but this is clearly a situation where the chances are raised).

Yes, football players continue to play after numerous concussions.  and the emerging research (which has never been done before) is showing the grave consequences of this.  dead 40+ year old football players with brains that resemble 80+ year old alzheimer patients, etc...

I also never stated that the player is going to be hit and turn to mush on the spot.  Zach Thomas will likely have long term effects from his numerous concussions, although they may not present themselves for some years.

Again, I never stated that anything was fact, or a guarantee to happen, but that getting further concussions COULD lead to those consequences.

Feel free to read the articles on the recent studies which discuss the alarming facts...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/27/AR2009012703116.html
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/region/legislature/stories/04/06/0406concussion.html
http://wbztv.com/sports/patriots/ted.johnson.brain.2.824157.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/sports/football/24concussions.html?hp


Maybe Scal fit's into these categories...maybe not.  I dont think any of us can state definitively since we dont have his med records and no studies have proved conclusively the results...but my stating that it is possible is no different then your stating it isnt.

Which is exactly why I said that if I was a football player I wouldn't risk it. I think Aikman and Steve Young both did the smart thing and retired. If Scal was playing football I'd say the same. He is NOT however, and a fully healed grade 1 concussion in the sport of basketball is not open to the same types of risks and consequences that a football player has. You already know the Dr's held him out longer than he wanted to be held out to make sure that it fully healed. If it is fully healed he can take the "chance" of getting another grade 1 concussion with very small negative effects if any.

Don't make it sound like there are these "grave consequences" that are going to happen and that he needs to retire, and then follow it up with backpedaling. If you believe it then stick to it. If not, then don't exxagerate.

[yall hate]

I never stated that any consequences were a guarantee.  I stated that it COULD happen (yes, anything could happen, but this is clearly a situation where the chances are raised).

This is the problem.  We don't even know if the chances are raised.  All we really know with any kind of certainty is that the chances are raised of further (and worse) concussions if they occur before the previous trauma has fully healed.  There is very little data so far dealing with traumas after the initial trauma has healed.

from what I have read, I havent seen the distinction between whether the concussions occur before or after an injury has healed.  the studies (to my knowledge, I could be wrong) deal simply with the cumulative effects of multiple concussions... (http://www.neuroskills.com/pr-athletes.shtml)  I easily could be wrong, but I havent seen that distinction made...

[yall hate]

You have no proof of "grave consequences" surrounding an additional concussion, especially with a grade 1 concussion. The only consensus amongst medical professionals of what long term affects could be is that there is no way to come to a consensus.

Football players like my man Zach Thomas have had numerous higher grade concussions, yet gone out and hit guys the rest of the year leading with their heads and not had any affects from it. Although I wouldn't risk things with the contact football players deal with unless I was way past any symptoms, basketball isn't the same thing. Throwing out scare words like "grave consequences" with no backup or facts is just nonsense. If there really were the dr's wouldn't let him play.

I never stated that any consequences were a guarantee.  I stated that it COULD happen (yes, anything could happen, but this is clearly a situation where the chances are raised).

Yes, football players continue to play after numerous concussions.  and the emerging research (which has never been done before) is showing the grave consequences of this.  dead 40+ year old football players with brains that resemble 80+ year old alzheimer patients, etc...

I also never stated that the player is going to be hit and turn to mush on the spot.  Zach Thomas will likely have long term effects from his numerous concussions, although they may not present themselves for some years.

Again, I never stated that anything was fact, or a guarantee to happen, but that getting further concussions COULD lead to those consequences.

Feel free to read the articles on the recent studies which discuss the alarming facts...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/27/AR2009012703116.html
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/region/legislature/stories/04/06/0406concussion.html
http://wbztv.com/sports/patriots/ted.johnson.brain.2.824157.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/sports/football/24concussions.html?hp


Maybe Scal fit's into these categories...maybe not.  I dont think any of us can state definitively since we dont have his med records and no studies have proved conclusively the results...but my stating that it is possible is no different then your stating it isnt.

Which is exactly why I said that if I was a football player I wouldn't risk it. I think Aikman and Steve Young both did the smart thing and retired. If Scal was playing football I'd say the same. He is NOT however, and a fully healed grade 1 concussion in the sport of basketball is not open to the same types of risks and consequences that a football player has. You already know the Dr's held him out longer than he wanted to be held out to make sure that it fully healed. If it is fully healed he can take the "chance" of getting another grade 1 concussion with very small negative effects if any.

Don't make it sound like there are these "grave consequences" that are going to happen and that he needs to retire, and then follow it up with backpedaling. If you believe it then stick to it. If not, then don't exxagerate.

I dont believe I have backpeddled.  I maintain that grave consequences are possible.

my question for you - why is a concussion for a football player different then a concussion for a basketball player?  it isnt.  so who cares if we are talking about football or basketball...multiple concussions have grave consequences for athletes.  are you finding the distinction in the fact that there is a greater chance of a football player having a concussion?  because if thats the case, it is irrelevant.  what is relevant is whether another concussion happens.

[Roy Hobbs]

are you finding the distinction in the fact that there is a greater chance of a football player having a concussion?  because if thats the case, it is irrelevant.  what is relevant is whether another concussion happens.

Out of curiosity, in terms of risk assessment why is it irrelevant?  In making a decision about his career, shouldn't Scal weigh both the risks (grave consequences) with the likelihood that those risks will come to fruition?  In football, the risks are the same as in basketball, but the chances of those risks occurring have to be much less.  In deciding whether it's a good idea to continue playing, I think the players have to take both things into account.

[cordobes]

The Dr. Cantu that is mentioned on those magazine articles as the leader of the research program and director of the Neurological Sports Injury Center is exactly the guy who cleared Scal to play.

are you finding the distinction in the fact that there is a greater chance of a football player having a concussion?  because if thats the case, it is irrelevant.  what is relevant is whether another concussion happens.

Why? Why do you think Scal is in such a danger if another concussion happens? That would be risky if he was still suffering from PCS, risking a second-impact syndrome.

About the long-term impact of concussions, is Scal pondering to start a boxing career after leaving basketball or something? Because if not, I'm not exactly seeing the problem...