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Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« on: April 16, 2009, 04:31:06 PM »

Offline Spfldkid

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  Well there are some pluses and some minuses to Docs coaching...The number one thing on my mind right now is what a lot of people have been saying
ALL ALONG, Doc, you should have rested the big 3 a lot more.....As the Captain of the ship, you need to be able to see the weather coming, prepare for the long voyage.....you didn't do that......coaching isn't easy.....You should have played POB more, to sub in for KG, giddens, walker, MM.....you are lucky that is the only remaining injury....! KG should have NEVER played in that all-star game....that 3-5 day rest could have made the difference....Less playing time in the last half of the year for sure. Doc couldn't ever play more than 6 guys before the bidg 3 came...he couldn't ever see past the minute...Now we have no extra height (uhm POB is hitting it in Toronto) ( because they are PLAYING HIM)......Look iy up..! No, POB isn't going to replace KG, but could help..could have rested KG, developed a young player, that is how it works....!
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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2009, 04:38:03 PM »

Offline cordobes

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It's kind of ironic the injured guy was the one whose playing time was more limited and controlled.

With the benefit of hindsight, I'd say Doc was very smart. Having HCA over Orlando is a big reason why we have a decent chance of eliminating them (in spite of the fact that they're the clear favourites, IMO). Overplaying Pierce and Ray Allen those 40 minutes or whatever during an entire season was a smart move from Doc; it may be worth playing the Conference Finals and they wouldn't be much fresher without those 40 minutes in their legs.
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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2009, 04:41:38 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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I knew this thread was coming, and frankly, it's not fair.

First, there's no medical evidence to suggest that playing extended minutes contributed to KG's injury.  Intuitively, it may make sense to draw the "more minutes = greater risk of injury" conclusion, but that's not proven in this instance.

Secondly -- and more importantly -- KG didn't average a lot of minutes this season.  Here are his average minutes by month, from October until January:  31.0, 32.9, 33.4, 31.4.  Only three times all season did KG play over 40 minutes.  His minutes this season were the lowest since his rookie year, and were even lower than the 32.8 minutes he averaged last year.  The year before we acquired KG, he averaged 39.8 minutes in Minnesota.

The last two seasons have been the only two seasons outside of his rookie year where KG has averaged less than 37.9 minutes per game.  If anything, Doc has gone out of his way to make sure that KG *hasn't* played extended minutes.  Again, blaming this injury on Doc is unfair.

(If Pierce was injured during the stretch where Doc refused to play Walker, there might be something to the argument.  Here, it's without merit, in my opinion.)
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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2009, 04:43:18 PM »

Offline Spfldkid

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  Really...? You think so...? Players wear down, reaction gets slower, over playing is like over training.....from what i have seen......but maybe you are right, it forced them to get more endurance......? I soooo wish we had everyone.....imagine Cleve without LBJ, LA without Kobe.....is that equal..? Orlando without Howard...?
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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2009, 04:43:44 PM »

Offline yall hate

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Quote from: Spfldkid on April 16, 2009, 04:31:06 PM

  Well there are some pluses and some minuses to Docs coaching...The number one thing on my mind right now is what a lot of people have been saying
ALL ALONG, Doc, you should have rested the big 3 a lot more.....As the Captain of the ship, you need to be able to see the weather coming, prepare for the long voyage.....you didn't do that......coaching isn't easy.....You should have played POB more, to sub in for KG, giddens, walker, MM.....you are lucky that is the only remaining injury....! KG should have NEVER played in that all-star game....that 3-5 day rest could have made the difference....Less playing time in the last half of the year for sure. Doc couldn't ever play more than 6 guys before the bidg 3 came...he couldn't ever see past the minute...Now we have no extra height (uhm POB is hitting it in Toronto) ( because they are PLAYING HIM)......Look iy up..! No, POB isn't going to replace KG, but could help..could have rested KG, developed a young player, that is how it works....!

Roy is right.  I was getting ready to type a similar response and then I saw he beat me to it. 

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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2009, 04:47:28 PM »

Offline Spfldkid

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  Well, i am not going against what you guys said...but too much playing had to be the reason.....it wore down...too much repetition.....how else....he just jumped up and that was it....no impact....no nothing else...?  I mean i did things like that b4 from like playing hoop, lifting weights and boxing...my shoulders got really sore.....so i had to rest.....same idea...?
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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2009, 04:51:55 PM »

Offline housecall

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I think KG was hurt a lot longer than anyone knew he was hurt. He made references to his knee when yelling at BBD.Sounds like he could have come into the regular season with a problem.If Doc doesn't know whats going on,how can he do anything about it?
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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2009, 04:54:01 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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You mention "but too much playing had to be the reason". "Had to be"? Sorry doctor. The problem isn't too much playing this season. The problem was too long of a career. As players get older, they are likely to get injured.

KG has been playing a long time. His body is worn out and heals slower than a younger player. The only way to avoid such problems is to retire.
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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2009, 04:59:16 PM »

Offline twinbree

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If it was a injury that was caused from playing a certain number of minutes in the season then eventually KG would have gotten hurt anyway. Maybe later in the season or even in the playoffs. At least this way they've had time to learn to play through the injuries.

I've complained about Paul and Ray's minutes but Doc did make an effort to manage KG's minutes from the start so I can't really blame him here. Besides it doesn't matter if we determine whose fault it is. It won't make KG ready for the playoffs.
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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2009, 05:04:46 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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i want them to just say he's out for the season so we can get it over with and move on. put it to end and allow BBD and Leon to step up.
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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2009, 05:05:48 PM »

Offline cdif911

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Quote from: Spfldkid on April 16, 2009, 04:47:28 PM


  Well, i am not going against what you guys said...but too much playing had to be the reason.....it wore down...too much repetition.....how else....he just jumped up and that was it....no impact....no nothing else...?  I mean i did things like that b4 from like playing hoop, lifting weights and boxing...my shoulders got really sore.....so i had to rest.....same idea...?

you're completely speculating, thats all anyone can do, but to blame Doc when he actually reduced KG's minutes is farcical.  Just looking for a reason to jump on Rivers... sometimes injuries just kind of happen, it was an awkward takeoff when it went, sorta the opposite to a sprained ankle coming down... the answer is, we don't know why he got hurt, but he did, and we need to work through it - pointing fingers isn't going to get us anywhere
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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2009, 05:09:23 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Quote from: Spfldkid on April 16, 2009, 04:47:28 PM


  Well, i am not going against what you guys said...but too much playing had to be the reason.....it wore down...too much repetition.....how else....he just jumped up and that was it....no impact....no nothing else...?  I mean i did things like that b4 from like playing hoop, lifting weights and boxing...my shoulders got really sore.....so i had to rest.....same idea...?

so what is limiting his minutes to you, considering doc kept him at 30?

should we shoot for 25 next year? 20? 15?

whats the number you would have been happy with?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 05:19:20 PM by crownsy »
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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2009, 05:11:04 PM »

Offline cdif911

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Quote from: crownsy on April 16, 2009, 05:09:23 PM
Quote from: Spfldkid on April 16, 2009, 04:47:28 PM


  Well, i am not going against what you guys said...but too much playing had to be the reason.....it wore down...too much repetition.....how else....he just jumped up and that was it....no impact....no nothing else...?  I mean i did things like that b4 from like playing hoop, lifting weights and boxing...my shoulders got really sore.....so i had to rest.....same idea...?

so what is limiting his minutes to you, considering doc kept him at 30?

should we shoot for 25 next year? 25? 15?

whats the number you would have been happy with?

he should have played 1 minute per game - take the tip off then get him out of there...basketball is dangerous man, someone could get hurt!
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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2009, 05:14:03 PM »

Offline Hoops

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Quote from: Roy Hobbs on April 16, 2009, 04:41:38 PM
I knew this thread was coming, and frankly, it's not fair.

First, there's no medical evidence to suggest that playing extended minutes contributed to KG's injury.  Intuitively, it may make sense to draw the "more minutes = greater risk of injury" conclusion, but that's not proven in this instance.

Secondly -- and more importantly -- KG didn't average a lot of minutes this season.  Here are his average minutes by month, from October until January:  31.0, 32.9, 33.4, 31.4.  Only three times all season did KG play over 40 minutes.  His minutes this season were the lowest since his rookie year, and were even lower than the 32.8 minutes he averaged last year.  The year before we acquired KG, he averaged 39.8 minutes in Minnesota.

The last two seasons have been the only two seasons outside of his rookie year where KG has averaged less than 37.9 minutes per game.  If anything, Doc has gone out of his way to make sure that KG *hasn't* played extended minutes.  Again, blaming this injury on Doc is unfair.

(If Pierce was injured during the stretch where Doc refused to play Walker, there might be something to the argument.  Here, it's without merit, in my opinion.)

The longer I'm on CelticsBlog, the more I appreciate the reasonable posts. Thanks, Roy, for being reasonable.
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Re: Well Doc....(KG's = you!)
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2009, 05:15:26 PM »

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the thing is, he has played a long career.  he could have gotten hurt in preseason.  he could have gotten hurt the first minute of the season.
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