Rebuilding?

[USG]

If the team has a good off-season, I see absolutely no reason to believe that they won't be a contender next year.  Because of that, I'd supplement the core, rather than blowing it up.

Let's say we rebuild.  What are the chances that, as a result of that rebuilding, we're left with a team that has a good a chance of winning as next year's squad?

The thing about rebuilding is that the vast, vast majority of the time, it doesn't pay off.  Look at the post-Jordan Bulls for a shining example.

I'm not really suggesting we blow the team up next year. I suppose I worded this: "I'm not here to declare the death of the Celtics as we now know them, but if we can't win next year, should we really be looking to keep the team together?"

Incorrectly. The emphasis should very much be on the if. Beyond 2010, though, I'm not sure what we're doing. You better believe there will be at least 1 eastern superpower born of the 2010 offseason, and the Celtics payroll will still have $40 million invested in KG and Pierce, with whatever we give to Powe/Davis, 4 million to Perk, and Rajon Rondo a restricted free agent. Add in role players, and we're not looking at any real salary cap space even with Ray Allen (I could, admittedly, be wrong on this--I don't really understand this side of the business as much as I'd like).

All I'm saying is that we may have 1 more year left, and after that, I'm worried about this idea of supplementing the core given salary cap issues and how much of a supplement will be needed to really make us contenders not just for the East, but for the title.

There's little glory in just making it to the ECF, or even the finals. Only 1 team really wins every year, and if we don't have a chance to be that one team, why not look towards getting back into that race as soon as we're out of it.

[wiley]

Ray Allen to NYC for Curry, Jeffries, #8 Pick, #38 Pick.
Scal, House, Allen and Walker to CHI for Hinrich
Draft Greg Monroe and Danny Green.
Resign Pruitt.
Sign

Rondo, Pruitt
Hinrich, Wafer, Giddens
Pierce, Green
Garnett, Jeffries, Monroe
Perkins, Curry

The key is Monroe - I think he is a franchise FC in the Chris Webber mold. I also think Green is going to be Danny Granger light - a do it all small forward that can knock it down from outside and play tenacious D. Maybe sign a Von Wafer, Ronald Murray or a Dahntay Jones as your first guard off the bench.

You've downdgraded the Celtics here.  Danny Green is not ready to be as good as Tony Allen.  Monroe is not ready to be as good as Powe or Baby.  And Hinrich is a long way down from Ray Allen. 

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

This post is way pre-mature. wow.

Have you had it typed up since the trades, and been chomping at the bit to have an oppurtunity to post it?


The freaking team has has back-to-back 60+ win seasons with a 22 and 23 yr old center and PG and are defending champs. Injuries happen.
The guy we traded for KG, you may remember him, hes also out for the year, and the twolves (celtics mcdonalds team) still suck

[USG]

This post is way pre-mature. wow.

Have you had it typed up since the trades, and been chomping at the bit to have an oppurtunity to post it?


The freaking team has has back-to-back 60+ win seasons with a 22 and 23 yr old center and PG and are defending champs. Injuries happen.
The guy we traded for KG, you may remember him, hes also out for the year, and the twolves (celtics mcdonalds team) still suck

Or I could just be looking ahead towards what we should be considering in a year's time. There's nothing at all wrong with planning ahead, looking into the future, etc. I'm not talking about blowing up the team today, I'm just worried that we're going to attempt to hang on ala the Pistons in 2010-2011, 2011-2012, and so on when there's little point.

And for the record, I'd be bringing this up regardless of the injury. We knew when we made the trades we were sacrificing the future for the present, and it paid off beautifully in the first year, and could still pay off this year or next. The point is that that "future" has to come sometime, and ignoring it/living in denial pointing to our past and our regular season records in a few year's time isn't going to help.

[dark_lord]

rebuild? u got to be kidding me.  we are one season away from a title, when healthy we got out to the best start of the season in the nba, and we are 5 wins short of total wins from a year ago (which was considered a historic year).

if rebuilding consists of adding better players to our bench and finding role players that fit our system better, then im all for it.  but if rebuilding consists of anything other than that, count me out.  

we dont need to rebuild, we need to be healthy

[USG]

rebuild? u got to be kidding me.  we are one season away from a title, when healthy we got out to the best start of the season in the nba, and we are 5 wins short of total wins from a year ago (which was considered a historic year).

if rebuilding consists of adding better players to our bench and finding role players that fit our system better, then im all for it.  but if rebuilding consists of anything other than that, count me out.  

we dont need to rebuild, we need to be healthy

Right, but in 2010-2011, we might be 3 years from a title, and with the prospects of re-signing old guys at significant cost just to hang around in the east.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS YEAR OR THE NEXT. I AM TALKING ABOUT IN 2 YEAR'S TIME AT LEAST

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

This post is way pre-mature. wow.

Have you had it typed up since the trades, and been chomping at the bit to have an oppurtunity to post it?


The freaking team has has back-to-back 60+ win seasons with a 22 and 23 yr old center and PG and are defending champs. Injuries happen.
The guy we traded for KG, you may remember him, hes also out for the year, and the twolves (celtics mcdonalds team) still suck

Or I could just be looking ahead towards what we should be considering in a year's time. There's nothing at all wrong with planning ahead, looking into the future, etc. I'm not talking about blowing up the team today, I'm just worried that we're going to attempt to hang on ala the Pistons in 2010-2011, 2011-2012, and so on when there's little point.

And for the record, I'd be bringing this up regardless of the injury. We knew when we made the trades we were sacrificing the future for the present, and it paid off beautifully in the first year, and could still pay off this year or next. The point is that that "future" has to come sometime, and ignoring it/living in denial pointing to our past and our regular season records in a few year's time isn't going to help.

This team has nothing to do with pistons. the comparisons are moot.

The future...so what do you suggest we do for the future? dump the big 3 and tank for lottery picks?

[dark_lord]

rebuild? u got to be kidding me.  we are one season away from a title, when healthy we got out to the best start of the season in the nba, and we are 5 wins short of total wins from a year ago (which was considered a historic year).

if rebuilding consists of adding better players to our bench and finding role players that fit our system better, then im all for it.  but if rebuilding consists of anything other than that, count me out.  

we dont need to rebuild, we need to be healthy

Right, but in 2010-2011, we might be 3 years from a title, and with the prospects of re-signing old guys at significant cost just to hang around in the east.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS YEAR OR THE NEXT. I AM TALKING ABOUT IN 2 YEAR'S TIME AT LEAST

so your basically saying one year more than i indicated.....big difference    

ray is coming off one of his better years, pierce has been great, rondo looks to be turning the corner from role player to major contributor, perk has come into his own offensively and has been excellent defensively.   the only question mark for the core that could be brought up is kg's health.  the injury does not appear to be career threatening at all, so im sure he will be back to his old self next season, especially if he gets the knee scoped.

u want to rebuild?  maybe you have a different interpretation of what rebuilding is.  to me it means taking a few steps back and putting pieces together that MAY POTENTIALLY put you in a better situation in the future.  with where this team is, you just dont do that.

[Michael Anthony]

Ray Allen to NYC for Curry, Jeffries, #8 Pick, #38 Pick.
Scal, House, Allen and Walker to CHI for Hinrich
Draft Greg Monroe and Danny Green.
Resign Pruitt.
Sign

Rondo, Pruitt
Hinrich, Wafer, Giddens
Pierce, Green
Garnett, Jeffries, Monroe
Perkins, Curry

The key is Monroe - I think he is a franchise FC in the Chris Webber mold. I also think Green is going to be Danny Granger light - a do it all small forward that can knock it down from outside and play tenacious D. Maybe sign a Von Wafer, Ronald Murray or a Dahntay Jones as your first guard off the bench.

You've downdgraded the Celtics here.  Danny Green is not ready to be as good as Tony Allen.  Monroe is not ready to be as good as Powe or Baby.  And Hinrich is a long way down from Ray Allen. 

Let's break it down. Monroe is not ready to be as good as Powe or Baby. You are correct, but he is four inches taller, five years younger, and shows a lot of promise if he gets the right coaching (Clif Ray?). Plus, Eddy Curry is bigger and better than both of those players, and I bet KG can motivate him.

Danny Green is better that Tony Allen today. He is probably equal on defense (Less athletic, but fewer missed rotations), and is a much better shooter and dribbler. Plus, Jeffries can fill the wing stopper role while he gets situated.

Hinrich is a big step down from Allen, but but he is much younger, so lets focus on what he can do. He is a very good defender, can play the one or two, and can knock down the three ball. All of those skills will help him fit in on this team, with the added bonus of complimenting the continued growth of our new third option - Rajon Rondo.

In sum, we get a potential franchise big, youth and versatility on the wings, and very good depth underneath.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Ray Allen to NYC for Curry, Jeffries, #8 Pick, #38 Pick.
Scal, House, Allen and Walker to CHI for Hinrich
Draft Greg Monroe and Danny Green.
Resign Pruitt.
Sign

Rondo, Pruitt
Hinrich, Wafer, Giddens
Pierce, Green
Garnett, Jeffries, Monroe
Perkins, Curry

The key is Monroe - I think he is a franchise FC in the Chris Webber mold. I also think Green is going to be Danny Granger light - a do it all small forward that can knock it down from outside and play tenacious D. Maybe sign a Von Wafer, Ronald Murray or a Dahntay Jones as your first guard off the bench.

You've downdgraded the Celtics here.  Danny Green is not ready to be as good as Tony Allen.  Monroe is not ready to be as good as Powe or Baby.  And Hinrich is a long way down from Ray Allen. 

Let's break it down. Monroe is not ready to be as good as Powe or Baby. You are correct, but he is four inches taller, five years younger, and shows a lot of promise if he gets the right coaching (Clif Ray?). Plus, Eddy Curry is bigger and better than both of those players, and I bet KG can motivate him.

Danny Green is better that Tony Allen today. He is probably equal on defense (Less athletic, but fewer missed rotations), and is a much better shooter and dribbler. Plus, Jeffries can fill the wing stopper role while he gets situated.

Hinrich is a big step down from Allen, but but he is much younger, so lets focus on what he can do. He is a very good defender, can play the one or two, and can knock down the three ball. All of those skills will help him fit in on this team, with the added bonus of complimenting the continued growth of our new third option - Rajon Rondo.

In sum, we get a potential franchise big, youth and versatility on the wings, and very good depth underneath.

are you even being serious with all this rubbish about breaking up this team to get young and crappy?

[wiley]

Ray Allen to NYC for Curry, Jeffries, #8 Pick, #38 Pick.
Scal, House, Allen and Walker to CHI for Hinrich
Draft Greg Monroe and Danny Green.
Resign Pruitt.
Sign

Rondo, Pruitt
Hinrich, Wafer, Giddens
Pierce, Green
Garnett, Jeffries, Monroe
Perkins, Curry

The key is Monroe - I think he is a franchise FC in the Chris Webber mold. I also think Green is going to be Danny Granger light - a do it all small forward that can knock it down from outside and play tenacious D. Maybe sign a Von Wafer, Ronald Murray or a Dahntay Jones as your first guard off the bench.

You've downdgraded the Celtics here.  Danny Green is not ready to be as good as Tony Allen.  Monroe is not ready to be as good as Powe or Baby.  And Hinrich is a long way down from Ray Allen. 

Let's break it down. Monroe is not ready to be as good as Powe or Baby. You are correct, but he is four inches taller, five years younger, and shows a lot of promise if he gets the right coaching (Clif Ray?). Plus, Eddy Curry is bigger and better than both of those players, and I bet KG can motivate him.

Danny Green is better that Tony Allen today. He is probably equal on defense (Less athletic, but fewer missed rotations), and is a much better shooter and dribbler. Plus, Jeffries can fill the wing stopper role while he gets situated.

Hinrich is a big step down from Allen, but but he is much younger, so lets focus on what he can do. He is a very good defender, can play the one or two, and can knock down the three ball. All of those skills will help him fit in on this team, with the added bonus of complimenting the continued growth of our new third option - Rajon Rondo.

In sum, we get a potential franchise big, youth and versatility on the wings, and very good depth underneath.

I'd love to get Monroe for the long term.  But not at the expense of ruining our chances for next year.  Let Powe and Baby go?  Jeffries and Curry?  I also don't dislike Hinrich, but why downgrade?  Danny Green may be a less mistake-prone player today, but he's not a better N.B.A. player today, not even close.  Can you find another way to land us Monroe?

[housecall]

The only thing i see a need for is at the backup wing/pg/C(length) spots,...Keep BBD or Powe,House,maybe another,but as far as the core,they are set for awhile.

[Michael Anthony]

Ray Allen to NYC for Curry, Jeffries, #8 Pick, #38 Pick.
Scal, House, Allen and Walker to CHI for Hinrich
Draft Greg Monroe and Danny Green.
Resign Pruitt.
Sign

Rondo, Pruitt
Hinrich, Wafer, Giddens
Pierce, Green
Garnett, Jeffries, Monroe
Perkins, Curry

The key is Monroe - I think he is a franchise FC in the Chris Webber mold. I also think Green is going to be Danny Granger light - a do it all small forward that can knock it down from outside and play tenacious D. Maybe sign a Von Wafer, Ronald Murray or a Dahntay Jones as your first guard off the bench.

You've downdgraded the Celtics here.  Danny Green is not ready to be as good as Tony Allen.  Monroe is not ready to be as good as Powe or Baby.  And Hinrich is a long way down from Ray Allen. 

Let's break it down. Monroe is not ready to be as good as Powe or Baby. You are correct, but he is four inches taller, five years younger, and shows a lot of promise if he gets the right coaching (Clif Ray?). Plus, Eddy Curry is bigger and better than both of those players, and I bet KG can motivate him.

Danny Green is better that Tony Allen today. He is probably equal on defense (Less athletic, but fewer missed rotations), and is a much better shooter and dribbler. Plus, Jeffries can fill the wing stopper role while he gets situated.

Hinrich is a big step down from Allen, but but he is much younger, so lets focus on what he can do. He is a very good defender, can play the one or two, and can knock down the three ball. All of those skills will help him fit in on this team, with the added bonus of complimenting the continued growth of our new third option - Rajon Rondo.

In sum, we get a potential franchise big, youth and versatility on the wings, and very good depth underneath.

are you even being serious with all this rubbish about breaking up this team to get young and crappy?

Not really breaking up the team, more like reshuffling some pieces:

Rondo < Rondo
Allen > Hinrich
Pierce - Pierce
Garnett - Garnett
Perkins < Perkins
------------------------
Davis < Curry
Powe > Jeffries
House - Wafer
Allen - Green
------------------------
Scalabrine < Monroe
Pruitt < Pruitt
Giddens < Giddens
Moore -
Walker -

The continued improvement of Rondo and Perkins helps makeup for the downgrade to Hinrich i.e. the starting unit does not fall off.

The upgrade from Davis to Curry helps makeup for the downgrade from Powe to Jeffries. House and Allen to Wafer and Green is probably favorable, but I will call it a wash. In all, the second unit is neutral, but we do see a significant size upgrade.

This team will be better than the projected 2009-2010 eddition, with a solid foundation of Rondo-Hinrich-Green-Monroe-Perkins for beyond 2012.

[Mr October]

2008 was a fairly crappy class of free agents. Heck we were all battling over POB vs Birdman vs resigning Pollard, etc!!! It was terrible.

We made solid attempts at Maggette and Posey and then chose to hold our chips for a year.

The summer of 2009 is loaded with minimum-to-MLE players at many positions. I expect some nice retooling via 2 solid pickups and perhaps swing a trade with some of our expiring contracts (Scal, TA and or House); and then boom we're back on top for a another year or 2.

I'll go into more detail on specific thoughts after the playoffs. First I wanna enjoy the rest of this ride. Go Celtics!!

[twinbree]

All I ask for in the offseason no more undersized players and no one who'll be forced to play out of position. Mikki and Stephon are the only rotation players on the bench now who are respectably sized and playing their natural position and they probably won't be back.