Celtics MVP

[Ohio Celtics Fan]

In light of the Celtics MVP poll I thought I'd do a table of win-loss records when a player has a great game, an average game and a poor game. We'll start with Rondo (ps. this is a quick run through of stats so you can argue amongst yourselves as to how many poor, average or excellent games someone had)

                          Excellent                     Average                    Poor                Did not play
Rondo                  30-3                           28-9                      4-6                         0-2

R. Allen                16-4                           38-11                    5-5                         2-0

Pierce                   21-7                           32-12                    8-1                         0-0

Garnett                15-5                            19-5                      8-4                         17-7

Perkins                 11-3                            24-7                     21-8                       5-1


The table really doesn't say much about the intangible impact that a player has on the game but it seems that Rondo, Pierce and KG have the greatest effect on our team, which well DUH, but it also points out that Ray Ray has been the most consistent and our biggest weakness as far as consistent output is Perkins. You'd have figured that after KG went down his numbers would have spiked but that's not the case. But for that you have to give credit to how much Big Baby and Powe have stepped up. I really believe Rondo is the MVP and I mean can you argue with 30-3 when he's playing his best? 4-8 when he's playing poorly or not playing at all is pretty telling too, thank God he is for the most part consistent and has only missed two games.

[Atzar]

Just for clarification, how are you determining whether a given game is "excellent", "average", or "poor"?  Going by basketball reference's "game score" or some system like that?  Or is it more or less arbitrary?

[Ohio Celtics Fan]

Just for clarification, how are you determining whether a given game is "excellent", "average", or "poor"?  Going by basketball reference's "game score" or some system like that?  Or is it more or less arbitrary?

No, it's not arbitrary. I went onto ESPN and looked at the splits for the starting five, looking at the basic stats of: points, assists, rebounds, turnovers and for big men, blocks. It took quite a long time actually. I was trying to be fair but honest with the stats.

[Atzar]

See, how do you factor defense into that equation though?  As a fictitious example, what if Ray has a line something like 11 points on 4-12 shooting, 2 assists and 2 rebounds against the Pistons, but he has a hand in Rip's face all night and holds him to 4 points on 1-11?  How do you factor that in?  His box score is probably going to suggest "poor game", but in reality his performance would have been significantly better than that label.  In other words, this doesn't pay any attention at all to thing that don't show up in the box score.  I know that's hard to retroactively put a value on, but it's still an important part of the game.

[Ohio Celtics Fan]

See, how do you factor defense into that equation though?  As a fictitious example, what if Ray has a line something like 11 points on 4-12 shooting, 2 assists and 2 rebounds against the Pistons, but he has a hand in Rip's face all night and holds him to 4 points on 1-11?  How do you factor that in?  His box score is probably going to suggest "poor game", but in reality his performance would have been significantly better than that label.  In other words, this doesn't pay any attention at all to thing that don't show up in the box score.  I know that's hard to retroactively put a value on, but it's still an important part of the game.

You bring a good point to the table, Atzar. I was very aware of this when I was making the table, that's why I didn't intend it to be a tell all, rather just scratch the surface and provide a "decent" representation of what each of the starting five brings to the court every night. I also assumed when making the table that most of the people viewing it would have seen quite a few of the games this season and could infer their own opinion.

[xmuscularghandix]

In light of the Celtics MVP poll I thought I'd do a table of win-loss records when a player has a great game, an average game and a poor game. We'll start with Rondo (ps. this is a quick run through of stats so you can argue amongst yourselves as to how many poor, average or excellent games someone had)

                          Excellent                     Average                    Poor                Did not play
Rondo                  30-3                           28-9                      4-6                         0-2

R. Allen                16-4                           38-11                    5-5                         2-0

Pierce                   21-7                           32-12                    8-1                         0-0

Garnett                15-5                            19-5                      8-4                         17-7

Perkins                 11-3                            24-7                     21-8                       5-1


The table really doesn't say much about the intangible impact that a player has on the game but it seems that Rondo, Pierce and KG have the greatest effect on our team, which well DUH, but it also points out that Ray Ray has been the most consistent and our biggest weakness as far as consistent output is Perkins. You'd have figured that after KG went down his numbers would have spiked but that's not the case. But for that you have to give credit to how much Big Baby and Powe have stepped up. I really believe Rondo is the MVP and I mean can you argue with 30-3 when he's playing his best? 4-8 when he's playing poorly or not playing at all is pretty telling too, thank God he is for the most part consistent and has only missed two games.

i'd say according to your table the MVP is either Pierce or Rondo, not becuase of how well the team performed on their good nights but how they didn't in their absense, or course pierce also hasn't missed a game so its hard to not say him.

Paul Pierce

[Ohio Celtics Fan]

In light of the Celtics MVP poll I thought I'd do a table of win-loss records when a player has a great game, an average game and a poor game. We'll start with Rondo (ps. this is a quick run through of stats so you can argue amongst yourselves as to how many poor, average or excellent games someone had)

                          Excellent                     Average                    Poor                Did not play
Rondo                  30-3                           28-9                      4-6                         0-2

R. Allen                16-4                           38-11                    5-5                         2-0

Pierce                   21-7                           32-12                    8-1                         0-0

Garnett                15-5                            19-5                      8-4                         17-7

Perkins                 11-3                            24-7                     21-8                       5-1


The table really doesn't say much about the intangible impact that a player has on the game but it seems that Rondo, Pierce and KG have the greatest effect on our team, which well DUH, but it also points out that Ray Ray has been the most consistent and our biggest weakness as far as consistent output is Perkins. You'd have figured that after KG went down his numbers would have spiked but that's not the case. But for that you have to give credit to how much Big Baby and Powe have stepped up. I really believe Rondo is the MVP and I mean can you argue with 30-3 when he's playing his best? 4-8 when he's playing poorly or not playing at all is pretty telling too, thank God he is for the most part consistent and has only missed two games.

i'd say according to your table the MVP is either Pierce or Rondo, not becuase of how well the team performed on their good nights but how they didn't in their absense, or course pierce also hasn't missed a game so its hard to not say him.

Paul Pierce

I could agree with you on that one, it's almost too close to call between Rondo and Pierce.

[twistedrico]

My vote is for the truth. He is the MVP of the Celtics and should be in the top in the league voting.

[threats13]

We are a team and we play as a team.  When we went through that stretch of injuries all bunched together we really saw how important each piece of the puzzle is.  Were not like other teams in the league where we can lose a few guys and maintain our outstanding play.  Mainly because those other teams put HUGE loads on the shoulders of specific players.  For example Lebron and Kobe.  Bynum goes down and the Lakers dont miss a beat because the majority of the offense is through Kobe not Bynum.  However, the Celtics choose to run a team game where the offense is run through everyone and the ball is shared and we play our best when our assists to made baskets ratio is closer to 1.


So with all that said and making a decision on the one guy that is most valuable to us I would say it is Rondo.  Timely rebounds, great passing, dribble penetration. He does everything his role asks him to do and sometimes more.  He has OUTSTANDING games where he barely scores any points.  Then you look at the rest of his box score and you see 9 rebounds 12 assists 4 steals and the intangible of keeping the PG out of the paint.  I love em all but Rondo is my man.

[Ohio Celtics Fan]

We are a team and we play as a team.  When we went through that stretch of injuries all bunched together we really saw how important each piece of the puzzle is.  Were not like other teams in the league where we can lose a few guys and maintain our outstanding play.  Mainly because those other teams put HUGE loads on the shoulders of specific players.  For example Lebron and Kobe.  Bynum goes down and the Lakers dont miss a beat because the majority of the offense is through Kobe not Bynum.  However, the Celtics choose to run a team game where the offense is run through everyone and the ball is shared and we play our best when our assists to made baskets ratio is closer to 1.


So with all that said and making a decision on the one guy that is most valuable to us I would say it is Rondo.  Timely rebounds, great passing, dribble penetration. He does everything his role asks him to do and sometimes more.  He has OUTSTANDING games where he barely scores any points.  Then you look at the rest of his box score and you see 9 rebounds 12 assists 4 steals and the intangible of keeping the PG out of the paint.  I love em all but Rondo is my man.

Well said, sir!