Big Baby's contract

[BballTim]

They could have signed BBD to the MLE instead of Pruitt.

I remember it being public knowledge at the time that BBD wasn't interesting in a 3rd year.

From what I understand, the Celtics also have a policy to negotiate first with their first pick, and then with their second pick. So that Gabe grabbed the 3-year deal, let's us know that Davis had little chance of getting that contract.

That after Davis signed, he and his agent concocted a story so that Davis doesn't lose face by having a two year deal instead of a 3 year deal, and looking at the positives says little of how "greedy" he is and doesn't change the fact that someone was picked before him and depleted the MLE in his contract.

Now, it is possible that Davis and his agent were shooting for a 2 year deal... but who cares? Why do some people get so offended by some player having confidence in his skills and trying to get paid? (This is not directed at you, don't know your position on the matter).

  No, I also remember at the time of the signing that  reporters were saying that Danny wanted to sign him for 3 years but Davis and his agent wanted a 2 year deal.

And where did that leave Pruitt then? Again, only one of the two was going to get a 3 year contract. Danny could want all he wants, but he couldn't sign both of them to 3 year contacts.

  Maybe they were going to offer Posey less money and upped the offer when Davis didn't take the deal. Maybe they'd have offered House less. I'd have to go back and look at the sequence of transactions but it was widely stated that Danny wanted to sign them to 3 year deals like he had 2nd round picks in the past.

Eddie House was the first person they signed, about a month earlier than Posey, Pruitt, Davis.

Sign Posey for even less? Something that was already considered a discount by many, with him having other suitors. Really? This isn't realistic in the least.

Filling the bench with experienced players that could actually play was the number one priority of that offseason, and they would not jeopardize that just so that they could give a fat unproven rookie a 3 year deal. Sorry, but it makes zero sense. You ask to pay Posey about 500,000-650,000 less, and you lose him... guaranteed.

  Right. All the reports from the time were wrong, you're the expert. It's an absolute guarantee that Posey wouldn't take less, just like it's a guarantee that he wouldn't be sitting around unsigned about 2 months into free agency and willing to sign a 1 year deal for short money. If you don't believe nay of the reports that came out at the time it's of no concern to me.

So, you're also ignoring some of the reports that they didn't expect to sign Posey? That they were quite surprised that he chose them? Really, offering about half a million less to Posey would be quite disastrous, our offer was already low as it was (and there were reports that he had better offers in other places, or are we ignoring those?). It's no mystery why rookies are left to be signed at the end... they're signed with what's left over.

If Danny went "Sorry Posey, we won't offer you any more because we need to leave some for Big Baby... in fact, we need to offer you even less" I would've smacked him in the head.

It's not that I'm an expert. Is that first, I'm doubting your full recollection of things. I also know that reports are often inaccurate or wrong. I also don't need reports to know what makes sense or what doesn't.

  If you think the reports are wrong (while, of course, relying on "reports" to bolster your argument), good for you. The fact that I'm the 3rd or 4th person on this thread that was aware that Ainge wanted to sign BBD for a 3 year deal makes it less likely that my recollection's wrong. What doesn't make sense to me is that you know so much about Danny's efforts to sign Posey but are oblivious as to what was reported about the Davis signing.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'm not disputing that Ainge might've wanted to sign Davis to a three year deal. I'm disputing the feasability and the resources available to make that happen.

It's my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, that they have a policy of negotiating first with their top draft choice. When Pruitt signed, the MLE was gone.

Is it possible to sign Davis to a three year deal still? I'm not sure, maybe, but it would be based on minimum-salary, and that being the case, there's really no incentive to sign that type of contract (if at all possible).

So, when excactly did Ainge say that he wanted to sign Davis to three years? Did he make mention of this before they signed Posey, or before Posey was in their radar? Did he mention it after they signed Posey? Did Ainge had a priority to sign Davis over Pruitt, and that's why he made some comment of wanting Davis for 3 years? In what context were the comments made? Were there comments at all? Source?

The facts are these:
Posey was already signed (to an already low offer)
650,000 left of the MLE to use to sign the rookies to offers above the minimum.
The minimum rookie contract is for $427,163, so you can't split the MLE between Davis and Pruitt.
Pruitt took the 3 year offer (who coincidentally was picked before Davis)
Davis was then signed to the minimum to a 2-year deal.
Then Davis made some comments after the fact, which you can interpret in any way you wish... I don't put too much importance in them because I understand there's motivation to make the comments he made.

So in all, after Pruitt was signed, Davis getting a 3-year contract wasn't much of an option, if an option at all.

[Roy Hobbs]

I'm not sure, maybe, but it would be based on minimum-salary, and that being the case, there's really no incentive to sign that type of contract (if at all possible).

No, it's not possible.  The "minimum salary exception" only applies to deals for two years or less.  Any contract beyond two years has to be done with the MLE, even if the player is earning the minimum in the third year.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'm not sure, maybe, but it would be based on minimum-salary, and that being the case, there's really no incentive to sign that type of contract (if at all possible).

No, it's not possible.  The "minimum salary exception" only applies to deals for two years or less.  Any contract beyond two years has to be done with the MLE, even if the player is earning the minimum in the third year.

Thanks, and it also rules out the use of the Bi-Annual exception (or a portion of it) since I understand you can only make two year deals with that.

[BballTim]

I'm not disputing that Ainge might've wanted to sign Davis to a three year deal. I'm disputing the feasability and the resources available to make that happen.

It's my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, that they have a policy of negotiating first with their top draft choice. When Pruitt signed, the MLE was gone.

Is it possible to sign Davis to a three year deal still? I'm not sure, maybe, but it would be based on minimum-salary, and that being the case, there's really no incentive to sign that type of contract (if at all possible).

So, when excactly did Ainge say that he wanted to sign Davis to three years? Did he make mention of this before they signed Posey, or before Posey was in their radar? Did he mention it after they signed Posey? Did Ainge had a priority to sign Davis over Pruitt, and that's why he made some comment of wanting Davis for 3 years? In what context were the comments made? Were there comments at all? Source?

The facts are these:
Posey was already signed (to an already low offer)
650,000 left of the MLE to use to sign the rookies to offers above the minimum.
The minimum rookie contract is for $427,163, so you can't split the MLE between Davis and Pruitt.
Pruitt took the 3 year offer (who coincidentally was picked before Davis)
Davis was then signed to the minimum to a 2-year deal.
Then Davis made some comments after the fact, which you can interpret in any way you wish... I don't put too much importance in them because I understand there's motivation to make the comments he made.

So in all, after Pruitt was signed, Davis getting a 3-year contract wasn't much of an option, if an option at all.

  You're assuming that Ainge never discussed a deal with Davis until Posey and Pruitt had signed. I'm not sure that was the case. Also you're assuming that Posey was willing to sign a 1 year deal for 1/2 his previous salary but would have absolutely refused to play for a few hundred thousand less. Ainge also had a history of offering 3 year deals to his 2nd round picks.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'm not assuming that Ainge never discussed a deal with Davis until Posey. I do assume though that he wouldn't have offered him a contract until Ainge was done with free-agency. And yes, I'm assuming that Posey wouldn't have signed for a "few hundred thousand less", especially when the offer was as low as it was, with better offers out there... I also assume that Ainge wouldn't have played with fire and offered him even less and risk him going somewhere else.

Ainge has a history of offering 3 year deals to his 2nd round picks. Ainge also had the resources to make it so, especially considering that he was stacking up cheap young assets in the past. The priorities and circumstances where completely different.

[winsomme]

if the reports coming from BBDs agent that he didn't want a three year deal came out when the Cs still had the space to offer a three year deal, then it would lend more credibility to that stance. coming after could seem like spin....

personally, i think if Danny had the space for three years for both Baby and Pruitt they both would have been singed that way. but i'm really not sure how it ultimately was decided that Pruitt would get three and Baby two...

maybe this has already been discussed but...does it matter? can't we still go over the cap to sign Baby?

[Who]

I remember there was only enough space leftover from the MLE to offer one of those two players a third year, and being upset that Danny choose Pruitt over Davis.