Say Memphis gets the first pick...

[KCattheStripe]

Do you think Toronto does this trade with Memphis' #1


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=dlqkmb

[Atzar]

No way Toronto does it, I think.  Neither Jaric or Milicic adds anything to their team, both have huge contracts that expire around the same time as Bosh so there's no noticeable cap relief.  They'd essentially be trading Bosh for Blake Griffin - an established All-Star PF for a potential All-Star PF.  Can't see it happening.

[KCattheStripe]

No way Toronto does it, I think.  Neither Jaric or Milicic adds anything to their team, both have huge contracts that expire around the same time as Bosh so there's no noticeable cap relief.  They'd essentially be trading Bosh for Blake Griffin - an established All-Star PF for a potential All-Star PF.  Can't see it happening.

Except for the fact that its an all star Power Forward who has no reason to stay with your team. Also, Griffin is a much better fit next to Bargs. Griffin would also flourish in the uptempo team Colangelo is trying to build.

[MVP]

I don't know if Memphis does this. Bosh has a year left on his contract and there's a good chance that he would bolt from Memphis after that. Even if Bosh would decide to stay, he would require a max contract while Griffin will be on a rookie contract for the next 4 years. For a team like Memphis who's probably struggling financially, having Griffin at a cheaper price will probably be a better option for them and help them resign Rudy Gay.

[Atzar]

I disagree.  You have a Power Forward who doesn't want to lose the prime years of his career on a team going nowhere.  If you convince him that you're doing your best to put pieces around him to get him a chance to win, then I don't think he has a problem playing in Toronto.  

Bosh isn't the player on that team I'd try to move.  Also, I'd much sooner get rid of Bustnani than bring in other players to complement his playstyle.  If Bargnani is really the future cornerstone of that team, then Toronto will be a bad team for a long time.

[Who]

No, it's too large of a cost for the Raptors. If the contracts where shorter, say one year remaining, then it wouldn't be an issue.

The more interesting team to ponder may be the Washington Wizards and what if they got the #1 pick.

[KCattheStripe]

I disagree that with Bosh, the Grizz would be going nowhere. In Fact Bosh would give them the stability of a #1 option that they've been missing all season. They would have two excellent scorers on the wings and a very good low post presence to compliment Bosh's face up game. I could easily see that as a situation Bosh would want to stay in.

Bargs, by the way, in the past 3 months has averaged 20 ppg for jan, 18 for Feb and 21 for March. not exactly bust numbers.

I don't think the contracts are that atrocious (Darko is done in 2010 and Jaric in 2011) especially considering you are getting a number one pick in return.

i don't think a trade with Washington makes much sense, what would Toronto get in return and where would Washington play him? they already have a face up 4 in Jamison who is locked up until 2012.

[Who]

i don't think a trade with Washington makes much sense, what would Toronto get in return and where would Washington play him? they already have a face up 4 in Jamison who is locked up until 2012.

If it were the same situation as your suggested scenario, only this time with Washington winning the first overall pick. Say they trade Blake Griffin plus two contracts (Etan Thomas + Mike James). That would be the offer.

The Wizards would play Chris Bosh at the five spot with Jamison staying at the four. Chris Bosh is equally adept at playing both big man spots. Then use Brendan Haywood as their 6th man.

I don't think the contracts are that atrocious (Darko is done in 2010 and Jaric in 2011) especially considering you are getting a number one pick in return.

Oh, that's my mistake. I clicked the link to ESPN's trade machine and misinterpreted the years left on the deals. I thought Darko had two years after this season and Jaric had three, so 2011 and 2012. My mistake.

So, it's not as bad as I thought it was. Having both of those contracts on the books heading past the summer of 2010 was a major blow in my eyes, but there's actually only one. That changes things, but I still view the Jaric contract as a problem.


To explain my initial thinking

One of the best elements of a draft pick is the level of talent you get versus the cost of the contract. If Blake Griffin is say the real deal, a perennial All-Star caliber player, he'll be earning $5-7mil for the next four years versus the $12-15mil he'd earn on his first contract extension ... and $17-20mil for Bosh's next extension. That difference is huge and can be spent elsewhere.

A huge part of the attractiveness of a proposal like this is the ability to change expensive talent for cheap talent, and then use the difference in the money to boost your squad in free agency.

If you change the idea of your proposal from Blake Griffin versus Chris Bosh -- to Blake Griffin plus a free agent worth $10mil versus Chris Bosh .... then you can immediately see how much more attractive the situation is for the Raptors. They have an opportunity not only to add one All-Star caliber player, but possibly two such players if they spend the money wisely.

That's why it matters when the contracts expire. If the Raptors can get the #1 pick, and contracts that expire right now or by 2010, they can load up on larger contracts while Griffin is on a cheap deal and build one heck of a basketball team. Griffin will be on the books for four seasons at the money too, so the team has considerably more cap flexibility for a lengthily period of time.

One can see why I still view the Jaric contract as a problem.

The Jaric contract is an even larger issue for Toronto than most teams because of their other cap mistakes -- Jason Kapono, Marcus Banks and Kris Humphries are already on the books for $14mil in 2010/11 -- add Jaric to that and now $21mil of their cap space is eaten up on four players who figure to play very small roles, if any role, for the club in that season.

[OriginalODb]

No way Toronto does it, I think.  Neither Jaric or Milicic adds anything to their team,

Really? the chance to have Adriana Lima in the stands cheering on her hubby might be worth something

(BTW the internet police need to come up with an internationally recognized font for when your kdding so grown men don't have to use smiley faces. )

[KCattheStripe]

i don't think a trade with Washington makes much sense, what would Toronto get in return and where would Washington play him? they already have a face up 4 in Jamison who is locked up until 2012.

If it were the same situation as your suggested scenario, only this time with Washington winning the first overall pick. Say they trade Blake Griffin plus two contracts (Etan Thomas + Mike James). That would be the offer.

The Wizards would play Chris Bosh at the five spot with Jamison staying at the four. Chris Bosh is equally adept at playing both big man spots. Then use Brendan Haywood as their 6th man.

I disagree, I think a starting front court of Bosh and Jamison would be unbalanced offensively and ineffective defensively. Bosh is not a very good defensive 5, and his offensive game mirrors Jamison's too much to be effective. Also, Washington would not be able to spend the money to resign Bosh and put a team around him that can win.

[KCattheStripe]

I also do not understand the need for Toronto to get in on the 2010 free agent class if they are rebuilding without Bosh. Clearly this is not a team that would be contending right away and so would not need/ could not attract a impact free agent.

[Who]

I disagree, I think a starting front court of Bosh and Jamison would be unbalanced offensively and ineffective defensively. Bosh is not a very good defensive 5, and his offensive game mirrors Jamison's too much to be effective.

Fair enough. I disagree, but fair enough.

I don't think they'd be any great shakes defensively, but no worse than they currently are or figure to be in the near future. Adding Bosh to Haywood and Jamison is an upgrade over what they have had there over the past 3-4 years.

I don't see an issue offensively. Both are effective from anywhere on the court and very mobile. It would near impossible to send a double team at any of Washington's top four scorers because it would leave one of those guys wide open, which means everyone gets to work against single coverage far more often. It would also open up one of the toughest pick and roll games in the league. They'd be a devastating combination offensively, impossible to defend. I'd be amazed if Washington wasn't the best offensive team in the league after this trade.

Also, Washington would not be able to spend the money to resign Bosh and put a team around him that can win.

Sure they would.

Both Caron and Jamison are on extremely reasonable deals. They'd be able to keep all four players for a cost that would be somewhat comparable to what Boston will be paying the Big Three next season.

[Who]

I also do not understand the need for Toronto to get in on the 2010 free agent class if they are rebuilding without Bosh. Clearly this is not a team that would be contending right away and so would not need/ could not attract a impact free agent.

Why be bad when you can be good?

They'd have Blake Griffin, Jose Calderon, their own 2009 Lottery pick and likely a 2010 Lottery pick.

Then they would also have Andrea Bargnani if they choose to resign him, or if they choose not to pay him, then the Raptors would have another $10mil to spend in free agency, or they could even trade Bargnani and pick up some more talent through that route. Then add the extra $10mil in cap savings from the Bosh trade, which if they let Bargnani walk would give them $20-25mil in cap space. They could create even more cap space if they jettisoned a few of those bad midlevel contracts.

The combination of that talent, those lottery picks, and that type of cash to spend ...

Why is this team not making a push to be good in 2010?

[SShorefan 4.0]

I'd think they'd go with a coach first.

ohh, the Grizzlies.........never mind.

[CoachBo]

Word out of OKC is the Thunder will break up the trio of Durant, Green and Westbrook to pick first if they don't get it.