Allen Iverson is a team player...

[the_Bird]

It's getting pretty self-evident how much of a downgrade it is from Billups to Stuckey.  If we're talking five years down the road, sure you'd rather have Stuckey - but Detroit is still pushing for a championship within the next few years.  Billups isn't THAT long in the tooth. 

If you're trying to rebuild for the next three years, I don't think you drop your All-Star cailber PG unless you think he's going to fall off the cliff.  It's easier to replace someone like a Rip Hamilton or a Tayshaun Prince that it is Billups (and many of the free agents you might SIGN would be replacing one of those two anyway).  Trading for Amare is intriguing; if that went down, then I might agree with the Billups trade. 

It'll just be the greatest irony in the League if they DO get an impact big, but can't get back to the big game because of weakness at the point.

[crownsy]

It's getting pretty self-evident how much of a downgrade it is from Billups to Stuckey.  If we're talking five years down the road, sure you'd rather have Stuckey - but Detroit is still pushing for a championship within the next few years.  Billups isn't THAT long in the tooth. 

If you're trying to rebuild for the next three years, I don't think you drop your All-Star cailber PG unless you think he's going to fall off the cliff.  It's easier to replace someone like a Rip Hamilton or a Tayshaun Prince that it is Billups (and many of the free agents you might SIGN would be replacing one of those two anyway).  Trading for Amare is intriguing; if that went down, then I might agree with the Billups trade. 

It'll just be the greatest irony in the League if they DO get an impact big, but can't get back to the big game because of weakness at the point.

I dont really think the above is evidant at all, stucky has looked liek a first yar starter, which he is, and shown flashes of excellence.

you could have said the same thing about billups for 4 years of his career as a starter.

[GroverTheClover]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4035415

What a shocking turn of events.

[twinbree]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4035415

What a shocking turn of events.

AI is just disappointing. I guess I've been spoiled by the Celtics but how hard could it be to try out sacrificing for the team for a couple of games. He had a few weeks to get used to the idea that he was coming off the bench. At least he could try and play 4 or 5 games before complaining.

[Redz]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4035415

What a shocking turn of events.

I'm actually okay with what he said there.  He wasn't complaining about the minutes, he was just being honest about dealing with his new reality.  All he said is that it's harder than he thought it would be.  I didn't hear him blaming anyone for playing him short minutes, or not understanding why they're playing him short minutes, just that the adjustment is difficult.  Maybe he could keep his mouth shut about it, but I'm sure someone asked him the question and he answered it honestly.

[moiso]

Not sure I totally agree with you Redz.  He implied that he wouldn't have even come back from his supposed injury if he knew he would be playing this role.  If anything, it doesn't help a team to have a 20million dollar disgruntled player on the bench.

[moiso]

Actually, he didn't imply it.  He said it.

[crownsy]

Not sure I totally agree with you Redz.  He implied that he wouldn't have even come back from his supposed injury if he knew he would be playing this role.  If anything, it doesn't help a team to have a 20million dollar disgruntled player on the bench.

Actually, he didn't imply it.  He said it.

he says nothing of the kind. in fact he says at the end that it is what it is and he'll do his best to adapt and help the team win, not that he was thinking about not coming back or something.



He said he'd rather retire than do this AGAIN i.e if this is all he's offered around the league next year, he won't be back. thats his choice.

I don't think AI's in the right here, but he said nothign like he wouldn't have tried to come back and help the pistons if he knew this would be his role. don't put words in the man's mouth. I got the same read off it that redz did, he's not happy with it but he's trying to do all he can to help off the bench.

[Finkelskyhook]

I was just looking around the league... Based on teams situations I can't see anyone bring him in! Could AI be out of the league!?  

I think it would come down to the Clippers, Bobcats or Rockets for the MLE? Is that possible?

The sad part about Iverson's situation speaks to the basketball IQ of most fans.  This team wrecking, coach killing megatalent will get megabucks to sign with some NBA team because his personna...and individual talent puts lots of people who know little about the game in seats.  The best destination guess would be to come up the top-10 most incompetent GMs...Less Charlotte because I'm guessing Brown's experience with the coach killer would trump Jordan's incompetence.

Clearly, Dumars did the trade for cap purposes.  But it is unconcionable of Dumars to stick this selfish jerk with a rookie coach.

It's no coincidence that the Pistons, Sixers, and Nuggets are better without him

Clippers
Raptors
Heat
Suns
Wolves
Nuggets (?) If Karl is fired
Rockets
Mavericks
Warriors (If Nelson is fired or retired)
Wizards
Bulls

At least he could try and play 4 or 5 games before complaining.

It's hard to tell the difference with Iverson between talking and whining. 

[moiso]

Not sure I totally agree with you Redz.  He implied that he wouldn't have even come back from his supposed injury if he knew he would be playing this role.  If anything, it doesn't help a team to have a 20million dollar disgruntled player on the bench.

Actually, he didn't imply it.  He said it.

he says nothing of the kind. in fact he says at the end that it is what it is and he'll do his best to adapt and help the team win, not that he was thinking about not coming back or something.



He said he'd rather retire than do this AGAIN i.e if this is all he's offered around the league next year, he won't be back. thats his choice.

I don't think AI's in the right here, but he said nothign like he wouldn't have tried to come back and help the pistons if he knew this would be his role. don't put words in the man's mouth. I got the same read off it that redz did, he's not happy with it but he's trying to do all he can to help off the bench.

Yes, he spoke after tuesdays game in which he played 18 minutes and scored 11pts off the bench.

[makaveli]

I've never had a good opinion about him, I knew that any team he played in would not win a championship. He needs to look to Ray, Paul and KG as an example.
He doesn't like the game, he just likes to score a lot, 'cause nobody taught him better.

[crownsy]

I've never had a good opinion about him, I knew that any team he played in would not win a championship. He needs to look to Ray, Paul and KG as an example.
He doesn't like the game, he just likes to score a lot, 'cause nobody taught him better.

I think he plays a style of basketball that went out with the allowing of zone defenses, thats his problem.

Also, his style is based on being the quickest guy on the floor, and father time has caught up with him.

[LarBrd33]

Allen Iverson is one of the most overrated players I've ever seen.

I remember when the Iverson-to-Boston rumors were floating around... I hit this forum hard with lots of posts calling Iverson a "6 foot shooting guard who shoots 41%".   I even suggested that Boston would be better off with a guy like Stephon Marbury, because at least Marbury got some assists and shot a slighty more respectable 44-45%... I went as far as to say that Iverson was the product of old basketball politics and entitlement (much like Walker getting to jack up shots in Boston despite shooting 39%) and that if you gave a random scrub like Sebastian Telfair the freedom to jack up 24 shots a night... he too would be able to muster a 20 point average.   Ok, that last part was taking it too far, but still...

I wasn't surprised at all that Denver got worse after they dumped Andre Miller for Iverson.  Get rid of a true pass-first point guard for a ballhog 6 foot shooting guard who shoots 41% and you get worse??  Shocking!   I wasn't surprised at all that Philly got better once Iverson was gone.    I wasn't surprised at all that Denver suddenly improved with the arrival of Billups.  And I'm not surprised in the slightest that Detroit has been a mess since Iverson's arrival.

But I still don't want to deal with them in the 1st round.

[moiso]

Allen Iverson is one of the most overrated players I've ever seen.

I remember when the Iverson-to-Boston rumors were floating around... I hit this forum hard with lots of posts calling Iverson a "6 foot shooting guard who shoots 41%".   I even suggested that Boston would be better off with a guy like Stephon Marbury, because at least Marbury got some assists and shot a slighty more respectable 44-45%... I went as far as to say that Iverson was the product of old basketball politics and entitlement (much like Walker getting to jack up shots in Boston despite shooting 39%) and that if you gave a random scrub like Sebastian Telfair the freedom to jack up 24 shots a night... he too would be able to muster a 20 point average.   Ok, that last part was taking it too far, but still...

I wasn't surprised at all that Denver got worse after they dumped Andre Miller for Iverson.  Get rid of a true pass-first point guard for a ballhog 6 foot shooting guard who shoots 41% and you get worse??  Shocking!   I wasn't surprised at all that Philly got better once Iverson was gone.    I wasn't surprised at all that Denver suddenly improved with the arrival of Billups.  And I'm not surprised in the slightest that Detroit has been a mess since Iverson's arrival.

But I still don't want to deal with them in the 1st round.

I agree with the whole post except I really don't care if we face them in the first round.  I like that you mentioned AI's shooting percentage.  When your highest volume shooter makes a low percentage like that, the team is going to suck. 

[Finkelskyhook]

If Iverson is on the Piston's roster, I'd much rather play them than anybody else that comes out of the bottom 4...Except the Heat.  They picked up O'Neal, another malcontent coach killer.