Back to the Future (not the movie, fate of the C's)

[screwedupmaniac]

Alright, I know we're all tired of panicking over the status of KG's knee, whether the Celtics organization is being straight forward with us about it, etc. etc. etc.

I'm not standing on the edge of a bridge as I type this, and I'm not about to get on the edge anytime soon. However, I thought it would be interesting to hear some thoughts and opinions on what I'm about to type, and give people a chance to display their mad General Manager skills haha.

God forbid KG's knee be something that a good summer's rest can't fix, but I was just watching ESPN, and they said something in regard to KG having some loose cartilage in the knee, and we all know that something like that will involve scoping the knee in the offseason. This scares me, as this could easily be the beginning of the end for the KG area. However, this doesn't mean it has to be the end of our ability to contend for championships for another 20 years. Ainge has stated in the past that he would have traded away the original Big 3 while they were still good if he had been GM. My question is this: if KG is damaged goods and will never be able to play at 100% all star level again, how do we continue to contend? Do we stick with what we have? KG at 75% is better than most PF's in the league. Or do we look to shuffle and trade some combination of either KG, Ray, and young guys to put ourselves in position to acquire young FA superstars and lottery picks?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to push Ray and KG out the door, I am very connected to each of them and would love to see them retire as Celtics. At the same time, however, I can't bear to think of another 20 years of "potential", bad decisions (see trading away chauncey, joe johnson), etc.  If we can win another championship, then that'll be warrant enough for them to stick around a while longer and possibly retire as Celtics. But one championship? One and done? Are we ready to pull a Detroit Pistons here?

Another thing that worries me is Rajon Rondo. Call me crazy, but I've never heard him express genuine interest in being a life long Celtic. Paul Pierce has said it multiple times, and I felt bad for Delonte and Big Al because they both shared the same good sentiments for the Celtics. Rondo gives me the feel that once his contract is up, he's got money on the brain moreso than loyalty to the organization. Maybe it's just me...I hope so.

Ok, enough talking, how would you handle things this off season if KG's knee requires surgery?

[Jon]

Well, I think it's a little premature to get too down on things.  Right now I don't have any reason to believe that KG won't be back in two weeks and by no means do we have any reason to believe that the injury he has now will affect him next season.  In any case, unless there was an injury that we absolutely knew would prevent KG from ever being the same again, I wouldn't look to change anything about the team. 

Let me be very clear: I really don't care all that much about the future.  Will I be singing that tune 4 years from now?  Maybe, maybe not, but what the C's have going right now is too good to give up on prematurely.

The simple fact of that matter is that it's not every day that three stars of this caliber are on the same team, and it's certainly not every day that they all mesh as well as these three do.  It's also not every day you can add a cheap, borderline All Star PG, a thuggish, rugged young center, and an energetic, defensive-minded bench into the mix. 

For those of you anxious to get onto the transition process, I'd hold off.  Even if Ainge does everything perfectly, it's far more likely he creates the new Dallas Mavericks or Phoenix Suns (teams that got close to a title, but never won), than another version of these C's, particularly if KG isn't a part of the mix.  And that's if everything goes perfectly, which is probably won't.  If it was that easy to build a championship team like this one, more teams would win titles. 

Plus, let's not forget that the Lakers and Cavs could potentially get even better over the next few years.  The last thing we need to do is to prematurely cut short this team's run at a title to simply create a new team that LeBron will destroy in the ECF every year for the next 10 years. 

So for that reason, even if KG has a torn Achilles or a ACL (which I DO NOT think is the case), I'd still consider waiting it out.  We know what we have with this team; we don't know what rebuilding/transitioning will bring the team.  And from a simple statistical standpoint, the chances of Ainge putting something together like this again is quite slim.   

[MaxPowers]

Nice Bone reference Jon. I'll see you at the crossroads. As far as the future of the Celtics go...I haven't been able to get my mind off it...even during the playoffs last season. When we were marching to the finals last season, after every game we won...every series, including the Finals, instead of feeling relief, I started worrying about what we were gonna do at the 2 & 3 positions for the future...seriously...it was a problem...to say the least. There were two guys who were gonna be possibly available where we were picking who I was throwing salt over  my shoulders for. Guess who they were...Bill Walker & J.R. Giddens. And this is a recurring theme ever since D.A. took over. It started with my obsession with Rondo in '05, carried over to the selections of Gerald(albeit a misfire-but u know he cringed when Granger went off the board the selection before) & Gomes. My cousin & I battled over who would be a better pick come draft day in '06...Millsap or Powe-sure enough, D.A. cashed in again. Anyways...
   My point being, as long as D.A. is pulling players late in the 1st & the 2nd(i.e. Gomes, D. West, T.Allen, Powe, Baby, Billy Walker, even Big Al at 16) and is as keen at evaluating talent as he has been, I'm much more at ease about our future than I was before he arrived. And the future is bright to me. These C's remind me a bit of the Red C's squads, in which they brought in players to learn under their stars & be groomed to replace these legends. And I cant help but think of past C's legends when I look at the young talent on this roster. Powe reminds me of a young Silas, when I think of Baby...I can't help but think of Cowens...with his hustle and athleticism...combined with his short stature at the C position. Rondo...well, I think we can all envision all star appearances in his future. Bill Walker reminded me of a Pierce like player before I even had an inkling that he would end up being available to the C's in the draft. We also have roughly $9 mil. available in expiring contracts next season in T.A., Scal, House & Pruitt...in a year that is preceding the most highly anticipated free agent class in the past 10 to 15 years. I also really believe that despite recent nagging injuries, K.G. & Ray are the type of players who can be very productive into their late 30's. They are supremely conditioned athletes who are excellent shooters at their positions. Most scouts will tell you that the two things that transcend age & loss of athleticism in the NBA are shooting ability & height. So I trust that they will be meaningful contributers for a few more years at least. And lest I forget Perk...all you have to do is look at Jeff's article about the Beast today to tell you what we have in him. We'll be just fine...& that's coming from a C's fan who started watching them the year we got bounced by Zo' & the Hornets and witnessed the Reggie Lewis Tragedy first hand. I watched a team that my family swore up and down was the class of the NBA since it's inception wander incoherently for 15+ years through the landfills & retirement homes of NBA vets for core players. I dread experiencing that again.

[illantari]

Loose cartilage, even if that is what it is, is relatively easy to come back from.  Hopefully, in the unfortunate scenario where it is that, he'll recover and be 100% at least by next year.

Whether or not Rondo would leave for money is an interesting topic.  To be fair, after the Chauncey Billups thing I wouldn't fault any 23 year old for not wanting to make too definitive statements about his future.  But him leaving assumes three things:
1. That we would actually let him reach free agency before extending him (wasn't that the plan when we picked up his option for next year?)
2. That some other team would overpay for him in this nonexistent economy of our when he does fit free agency, which if I'm not mistaken is the mystical year of 2010, when teams will have bigger names to worry about, no offense to Rajon.
3. That we won't pay enough for him.  Somehow, I have a feeling that extension or free agency, Danny will do his best to keep Rondo.  I mean, he's not going to give him anything unreasonable, but he'll prob be a little bit more willing to pay then he was for Pose.

[Roy Hobbs]

My question is this: if KG is damaged goods and will never be able to play at 100% all star level again, how do we continue to contend? Do we stick with what we have? KG at 75% is better than most PF's in the league. Or do we look to shuffle and trade some combination of either KG, Ray, and young guys to put ourselves in position to acquire young FA superstars and lottery picks?

If KG needs surgery, I think you continue to do the same thing as if he doesn't require surgery:  add vets to keep this team in a good position to contend in the immediate future.

If KG is damaged goods, I can't imagine that we'd get very much for him on the market; he's still owed three years and around $56.5 million on his contract.  What team is going to give up a lot of prospects and expiring contracts if the prognosis is that he'll be 25% less effective?

A core of Pierce, Ray, Rondo, and Perk is good enough to be a solid playoff team.  Adding even a reduced KG and a couple of veterans, along with keeping House and Powe/BBD, puts this team in a much better position, in my opinion, than we could realistically hope for in a rebuild.

[CoachBo]

My question is this: if KG is damaged goods and will never be able to play at 100% all star level again, how do we continue to contend? Do we stick with what we have? KG at 75% is better than most PF's in the league. Or do we look to shuffle and trade some combination of either KG, Ray, and young guys to put ourselves in position to acquire young FA superstars and lottery picks?

If KG needs surgery, I think you continue to do the same thing as if he doesn't require surgery:  add vets to keep this team in a good position to contend in the immediate future.

If KG is damaged goods, I can't imagine that we'd get very much for him on the market; he's still owed three years and around $56.5 million on his contract.  What team is going to give up a lot of prospects and expiring contracts if the prognosis is that he'll be 25% less effective?

A core of Pierce, Ray, Rondo, and Perk is good enough to be a solid playoff team.  Adding even a reduced KG and a couple of veterans, along with keeping House and Powe/BBD, puts this team in a much better position, in my opinion, than we could realistically hope for in a rebuild.

I guess I remain confused by the "torn ACL" type of mindset that continues to dominate the discussion of Garnett's knee. There's absolutely no evidence to support the kind of long-term pessimism about his future that continues to be expressed on this board.

As for the future, management went all-in when they dealt for Ray and KG. It would make little or no sense to start backing off that strategy by moving some of those star parts at this juncture, unless you have a morbid fascination with the mediocrity of rebuilding with youth.

[cordobes]

As for the future, management went all-in when they dealt for Ray and KG. It would make little or no sense to start backing off that strategy by moving some of those star parts at this juncture, unless you have a morbid fascination with the mediocrity of rebuilding with youth.

Ditto. Someday it will have to happen, but let me enjoy the pleasures of having a good team filled with great players for a while more. I had enough years of "rebuilding" teams already, I still don't miss spending this part of the year more focused on the draft than on the NBA season.

[QuinielaBox]

My question is this: if KG is damaged goods and will never be able to play at 100% all star level again, how do we continue to contend? Do we stick with what we have? KG at 75% is better than most PF's in the league. Or do we look to shuffle and trade some combination of either KG, Ray, and young guys to put ourselves in position to acquire young FA superstars and lottery picks?

If KG needs surgery, I think you continue to do the same thing as if he doesn't require surgery:  add vets to keep this team in a good position to contend in the immediate future.

If KG is damaged goods, I can't imagine that we'd get very much for him on the market; he's still owed three years and around $56.5 million on his contract.  What team is going to give up a lot of prospects and expiring contracts if the prognosis is that he'll be 25% less effective?

A core of Pierce, Ray, Rondo, and Perk is good enough to be a solid playoff team.  Adding even a reduced KG and a couple of veterans, along with keeping House and Powe/BBD, puts this team in a much better position, in my opinion, than we could realistically hope for in a rebuild.

I guess I remain confused by the "torn ACL" type of mindset that continues to dominate the discussion of Garnett's knee. There's absolutely no evidence to support the kind of long-term pessimism about his future that continues to be expressed on this board.

As for the future, management went all-in when they dealt for Ray and KG. It would make little or no sense to start backing off that strategy by moving some of those star parts at this juncture, unless you have a morbid fascination with the mediocrity of rebuilding with youth.

But Bo, would you trade KG back to Minnesota for Al Jefferson?  Al is recovering from a serious knee injury.