Author Topic: Where did Rondo's Defense go?! (Read 5490 times)

EJPLAYA · « **on:** March 26, 2009, 09:39:02 AM »

In the last few weeks we have had a lot of threads about this guy or that guy who needs to step up and is at fault for our bad stretch. I think it pretty obvious that if we were 100% healthy we would be a different team. One thing has really bothered me though and last night it came to a head. For a guy who is arguably one of the quickest guys in the NBA and has huge long arms as well, he is playing some atrocious defense. There were three separate examples where they set up a high pick and roll that he made almost no attempt to fight through the screen, choosing instead to yell out to the guys rotating below for help. At least 2 of those plays resulted in a follow up dunk by Howard as his man had to leave to stop the guy from laying it up. If these had been perfectly executed solid picks and he was fighting hard then I would have no problem with it, but they weren't. As soon as he saw he was going to be picked he slowed down and didn't try to fight over or under the pick. He gave up almost before the play happened. There is no excuse for that.

He also has a nasty habit of gambling and getting out of position on guys and then making a weak attempt to knock it out from behind. Every once in a while it works, but usually the result is a foul or someone else having to leave their man and the defense completely breaks down. When he does this you will notice that he makes no attempt to get back in the play or rotate out to another guy and often a wide open three is the result.

There is no question that Rondo makes a huge difference to this team and when he isn't in there our offense struggles. He does however often hurt us on the defensive side of the ball. Last year he didn't play this lazy defense and I can't help but wonder why. Is it that he has gotten so full of himself that he thinks he doesn't have to? Does Thibodeau somehow neglect to get in his ear? If he keeps it up we sure aren't going to repeat as we aren't anywhere near the defensive team we were last year, even when healthy, and much of the blame has to go to the point of attack.

crownsy · « **Reply #1 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:41:19 AM »

im goign to guess with the sprained right ankle a month agoto start, and now with the other one sprained, its worse.

Defense is all about cutting and lateral movment, and its no secret he's got a bad ankle, and while its not so bad he can't play on it, he's made no bones about the fact that he is having trouble cutting when asked about it.

and now he has two, tough to play defense without that ability. He doesn't even full court pressure right now, and i don't think its laziness, its an inablity to stay with guys cutting left and right and making him plant.

Atzar · « **Reply #2 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:44:28 AM »

I really think he needs to take a break for a week or two. I hate to say it, but I'm willing to sacrifice a drop in the standings for a healthy team come playoff time.

MVP · « **Reply #3 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:45:28 AM »

Quote from: crownsy on March 26, 2009, 09:41:19 AM

im goign to guess with the sprained right ankle a month agoto start, and now with the other one sprained, its worse.

Defense is all about cutting and lateral movment, and its no secret he's got a bad ankle, and while its not so bad he can't play on it, he's made no bones about the fact that he is having trouble cutting when asked about it.

and now he has two, tough to play defense without that ability. He doesn't even full court pressure right now, and i don't think its laziness, its an inablity to stay with guys cutting left and right and making him plant.

Yep. Rondo looked liked a different player after the sprained ankle last night and it was confirmed by his comments. If both ankles are seriuosly bothering him, then we might be better off conceding the 2nd spot, getting Rondo healthy and resting up Pierce (he has looked tired out there for the past week or two).

BudweiserCeltic · « **Reply #4 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:49:29 AM »

Well, I've never felt that he was as good as people made him out to be defensively. He's never been good at staying in front of his man. He also at times has trouble fighting through picks, and his defensive stance is not good (though improved a bit). Also, he gambles unsuccesfully too often. His biggest strength is his ability to recover and come from behind to save a defensive lapse, the way he plays the passing lanes (which at times is his biggest problem too), and his sneakyness.

EJPLAYA · « **Reply #5 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:51:45 AM »

Quote from: crownsy on March 26, 2009, 09:41:19 AM

im goign to guess with the sprained right ankle a month agoto start, and now with the other one sprained, its worse.

Defense is all about cutting and lateral movment, and its no secret he's got a bad ankle, and while its not so bad he can't play on it, he's made no bones about the fact that he is having trouble cutting when asked about it.

and now he has two, tough to play defense without that ability. He doesn't even full court pressure right now, and i don't think its laziness, its an inablity to stay with guys cutting left and right and making him plant.

I'll agree with the ankle sprain hurting his defense in the last stretch (TP to you) but that doesn't explain away the rest of the year. There has been a huge dropoff in his defense all year long, especially with his refusal to play fundamental defense keeping his feet in front of his man versuse reaching. There is absolutely no reason that he can't do this considering his quickness, other than a lack of discipline or desire.

moiso · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:54:28 AM »

I think he's been ok this year defensively, and obviously the ankles have been bothering him lately. I don't think he needs to sit out and rest them if he's not doing any more damage by playing.

crownsy · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:01:17 AM »

Quote from: EJPLAYA on March 26, 2009, 09:51:45 AM

Quote from: crownsy on March 26, 2009, 09:41:19 AM
im goign to guess with the sprained right ankle a month agoto start, and now with the other one sprained, its worse.

Defense is all about cutting and lateral movment, and its no secret he's got a bad ankle, and while its not so bad he can't play on it, he's made no bones about the fact that he is having trouble cutting when asked about it.

and now he has two, tough to play defense without that ability. He doesn't even full court pressure right now, and i don't think its laziness, its an inablity to stay with guys cutting left and right and making him plant.

I'll agree with the ankle sprain hurting his defense in the last stretch (TP to you) but that doesn't explain away the rest of the year. There has been a huge dropoff in his defense all year long, especially with his refusal to play fundamental defense keeping his feet in front of his man versuse reaching. There is absolutely no reason that he can't do this considering his quickness, other than a lack of discipline or desire.

eh, i dunno, i havent seen a drop off all year, he's done what he always does. he's always been a gambler. he full court pressures extermely well, and is good at keeping people in front, but if he thinks he has you set up, he'll take a risk and go for the poke steal and trust that KG has his back if he misses.

he's always done that, and its always been something of an accepted flaw in his game to some and a good weopen to others. it really depends on wheather he's forcing steals or not i find.

celticinorlando · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:07:23 AM »

dribble penetration has been killing boston the last few games...first half last night also....maybe with KG back there full time to clean it up that will change but a lot of guards are getting in the lane on boston and wrecking shop. At this point...i have accepted the 3 seed. it is what it is. all they will need is one in orlando..sit them and get them health..esp rondo and PP. i mean after atlanta the sked is pretty easy and any tough games are at home...the cavs game is going to be meaningless other than getting some mojo for winning there

EJPLAYA · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:11:52 AM »

Quote from: crownsy on March 26, 2009, 10:01:17 AM

Quote from: EJPLAYA on March 26, 2009, 09:51:45 AM
Quote from: crownsy on March 26, 2009, 09:41:19 AM
im goign to guess with the sprained right ankle a month agoto start, and now with the other one sprained, its worse.

Defense is all about cutting and lateral movment, and its no secret he's got a bad ankle, and while its not so bad he can't play on it, he's made no bones about the fact that he is having trouble cutting when asked about it.

and now he has two, tough to play defense without that ability. He doesn't even full court pressure right now, and i don't think its laziness, its an inablity to stay with guys cutting left and right and making him plant.

I'll agree with the ankle sprain hurting his defense in the last stretch (TP to you) but that doesn't explain away the rest of the year. There has been a huge dropoff in his defense all year long, especially with his refusal to play fundamental defense keeping his feet in front of his man versuse reaching. There is absolutely no reason that he can't do this considering his quickness, other than a lack of discipline or desire.

eh, i dunno, i havent seen a drop off all year, he's done what he always does. he's always been a gambler. he full court pressures extermely well, and is good at keeping people in front, but if he thinks he has you set up, he'll take a risk and go for the poke steal and trust that KG has his back if he misses.

he's always done that, and its always been something of an accepted flaw in his game to some and a good weopen to others. it really depends on wheather he's forcing steals or not i find.

Good points. He is 4th in the NBA in steals at 1 per game, however half of those have to be coming from deflections and passing lane picks versus 1-1 picking of the guys pocket. There are at least 3-4 times a game where he puts the guys down low at risk that ends up in points the other way, so I would say that it is a negative trait vs. a positive one. It is just like fouling a jump shooter. Once in a huge while you might get a block that you feel real good about, but more often than not they just rack up free throws. If he truly wants to be deserving of the all-star honor he needs to stop gambling so much and just play good fundamental D. It will make him a better more valuable player, and it will keep our bigs from getting into so much foul trouble.

BballTim · « **Reply #10 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:18:53 AM »

Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on March 26, 2009, 09:49:29 AM

Well, I've never felt that he was as good as people made him out to be defensively. He's never been good at staying in front of his man. He also at times has trouble fighting through picks, and his defensive stance is not good (though improved a bit). Also, he gambles unsuccesfully too often. His biggest strength is his ability to recover and come from behind to save a defensive lapse, the way he plays the passing lanes (which at times is his biggest problem too), and his sneakyness.

If he can't stay in front of his man then he wouldn't be fighting through picks as there would be no need for them. And it's hard to stay in front of your man the way they call fouls. Would you say that Rondo's defenders do a better job of staying in front of him than he does staying in front of them?

BudweiserCeltic · « **Reply #11 on:** March 26, 2009, 11:38:25 AM »

Quote from: BballTim on March 26, 2009, 10:18:53 AM

Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on March 26, 2009, 09:49:29 AM
Well, I've never felt that he was as good as people made him out to be defensively. He's never been good at staying in front of his man. He also at times has trouble fighting through picks, and his defensive stance is not good (though improved a bit). Also, he gambles unsuccesfully too often. His biggest strength is his ability to recover and come from behind to save a defensive lapse, the way he plays the passing lanes (which at times is his biggest problem too), and his sneakyness.

If he can't stay in front of his man then he wouldn't be fighting through picks as there would be no need for them. And it's hard to stay in front of your man the way they call fouls. Would you say that Rondo's defenders do a better job of staying in front of him than he does staying in front of them?

"Can't" and "never been good" are not the same. Secondly, pick and rolls are plays that are run constantly by just about everyone, regardless of how well a player defends one on one... it's just a play that opens quite a number of options. I should've mentioned screens instead of picks though, sorry about that... that's really what I was reffering to.

The problem on your other question is that Rondo doesn't exploit the deficiencies of his defenders as often as he should be. He can blow by just about everyone on the court.

This has more to do with how he defends, not using his feet as he should, keeping players between his knees, sliding appropiately... he uses his upper body. He doesn't spread his leg and is constantly in an upright position playing catchup.

BballTim · « **Reply #12 on:** March 26, 2009, 12:07:19 PM »

Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on March 26, 2009, 11:38:25 AM

Quote from: BballTim on March 26, 2009, 10:18:53 AM
Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on March 26, 2009, 09:49:29 AM
Well, I've never felt that he was as good as people made him out to be defensively. He's never been good at staying in front of his man. He also at times has trouble fighting through picks, and his defensive stance is not good (though improved a bit). Also, he gambles unsuccesfully too often. His biggest strength is his ability to recover and come from behind to save a defensive lapse, the way he plays the passing lanes (which at times is his biggest problem too), and his sneakyness.

If he can't stay in front of his man then he wouldn't be fighting through picks as there would be no need for them. And it's hard to stay in front of your man the way they call fouls. Would you say that Rondo's defenders do a better job of staying in front of him than he does staying in front of them?

"Can't" and "never been good" are not the same. Secondly, pick and rolls are plays that are run constantly by just about everyone, regardless of how well a player defends one on one... it's just a play that opens quite a number of options. I should've mentioned screens instead of picks though, sorry about that... that's really what I was reffering to.

The problem on your other question is that Rondo doesn't exploit the deficiencies of his defenders as often as he should be. He can blow by just about everyone on the court.

This has more to do with how he defends, not using his feet as he should, keeping players between his knees, sliding appropiately... he uses his upper body. He doesn't spread his leg and is constantly in an upright position playing catchup.

I agree that his defensive stance isn't always what I'd like to see but I also think it's incredibly easy to pick up cheap fouls playing proper defense on someone who's driving. People lunge into Rondo when he's backing up and the whistle blows. It's not like Powe pr BBD having set position when a player runs into them. Also, quite a few of the picks on Rondo are simply designed to separate him from the player he's guarding and not a pick and roll, at least not in the sense that the player with the ball even glances back at the player who set the pick.

As for my other question, my point was that if you just look at Rondo you might not like his defense but if you compare him to other pgs it doesn't look as bad.

xmuscularghandix · « **Reply #13 on:** March 26, 2009, 12:17:15 PM »

he's slacking, and his defense is reputation alone, if someone tested him they'd get right by. too much trust on his big men, and that's why they're all getting in foul trouble.

crownsy · « **Reply #14 on:** March 26, 2009, 12:24:04 PM »

Quote from: xmuscularghandix on March 26, 2009, 12:17:15 PM

he's slacking, and his defense is reputation alone, if someone tested him they'd get right by. too much trust on his big men, and that's why they're all getting in foul trouble.

of course they would get by him right now. he has two sprained ankles. keeping another gaurd infront of you is all about cuts, planting your foot, and lateral movement, three thigns that are nearly impossable to do well if your ankle is hurt.

He has made no secret, none, that he hasen't been able to plant and cut correctly since the sprain last month, and after the game last night he says the other ankle feels worse.

IMO, he should sit. immeditly. you can't play defense against gaurds with sprained ankles, its impossable.

Author Topic: Where did Rondo's Defense go?! (Read 5490 times)

Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

EJPLAYA

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

crownsy

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

Atzar

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

MVP

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

BudweiserCeltic

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

EJPLAYA

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

moiso

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

crownsy

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

celticinorlando

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

EJPLAYA

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

BballTim

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

BudweiserCeltic

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

BballTim

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

xmuscularghandix

Re: Where did Rondo's Defense go?!

crownsy

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