LeBron

[markketch]

right, thats a foul because it directly affected the shot.

Incedintal contact post clean block is not, nor has it ever been a foul. if it was, every block perk ever makes would be a foul.

Hey, at least we agree on a thing or two  

[the TRUTH]

Seriously, do you really watch the Celtics-Cavs games when they play? In the most recent game, we outscored the Cavs 58-26 in points in the paint, yet got outshot 38-12 at the free throw line. And by the way, we were AT HOME. And, in case you forget, we are defending NBA Champions. Please explain that for me.

Explanation: Boston scored easily in the paint on tons of uncontested layups. The Celtics were extremely physically and did not allow easy, open looks to the Cavs - they made sure to foul or contest everything.  This is a large part of the point differential and FT disparity.

And there you go, a possible explanation.

That would be a legitimate explanation...unless you actually watched the game. We were getting hammered on both makes and misses, but nothing was called. Yet, as the C's were starting to pull away, we couldn't even breath on the Cavs without a foul getting called. Wonder why...?

[markketch]

And you still don't acknowledge what we're saying - Perk complains because he's actually getting in foul trouble. LeCrabDribble complains because the opponent had the audacity to challenge a shot of his. And if he actually missed a shot, the officials had the audacity to not give him free throws to compensate. Totally different situations.

I don't care why Perkins complains, he complains EXCESSIVELY. There are times where Perkins clearly fouls someone yet acts like he was accused of murder.

[markketch]

That would be a legitimate explanation...if you actually watched the game. We were getting hammered on both makes and misses, but nothing was called. Yet, as the C's were starting to pull away, we couldn't even breath on the Cavs without a foul getting called. Wonder why...?

I did watch the game, and the Celtics had so many wide open looks in the paint you would have thought the Cavs were playing 3 guys. If you don't think that contributed to the differnetial, then I don't know what to tell you.  The Celtics were physical, the Cavs were soft.

[RAcker]

I dunno, i knwo the fact that TNT didn't show a replay feeds into the conspiracy argument, but at full speed that looked pretty clean.

I'd have to see it again, which TNT decided to pass on in favor of showing a play for 3 minutes before hand. (i loath TNT's choies of replays.)

They actually did show one replay of it, and it was clean.  LeBron did hit Outlaw on the arm after the block on his follow through of the swipe, but the ball was well clear and out of Outlaw's hand when that happend.

You can't hit a guy on his follow through and have it be "clean"

if you block the ball full on before hand and then you hit him after the shot is gone, sure you can.

as long as the ball is well clear of his hand, and you block it first, you can hit the guys hand with the follow through. KG does this all the time post rejection.

Just because KG does it doesn't make it legal.  The act of shooting is defined from the beginning of the shooting motion until the completion of follow through and if a jump shot, a return to the floor.  

If this were legal, why not wrap the guy across the arm hard after release every shot.  He'd start flinching every time you challenged a shot and shooting percentages would be around 10 %.  

Sometimes the basic basketball rule arguments on this site are so ridiculous. Example, that three steps is sometimes permitted!  It is not, folks.  Not supposed to be by the rules of the game anyway.

[markketch]

If this were legal, why not wrap the guy across the arm hard after release every shot.  He'd start flinching every time you challenged a shot and shooting percentages would be around 10 %.  

There is an obvious difference between incidental contact and purposeful contact.

Also, what you just described is a foul because the shot was not blocked.  That is the key point you're neglecting - the shot is blocked cleanly first, then incidental contact is made.

You're talking about two completely different scenarios - hitting a guy after the shot is gone and not blocked, and blocking a shot and then following through.

[RAcker]

That would be a legitimate explanation...if you actually watched the game. We were getting hammered on both makes and misses, but nothing was called. Yet, as the C's were starting to pull away, we couldn't even breath on the Cavs without a foul getting called. Wonder why...?

I did watch the game, and the Celtics had so many wide open looks in the paint you would have thought the Cavs were playing 3 guys. If you don't think that contributed to the differnetial, then I don't know what to tell you.  The Celtics were physical, the Cavs were soft.

LeCrabDribble IS soft.  Thus why he will not beat a healthy Celtics team with or without homecourt.  Anybody that lies on the floor for 20 seconds or so after a foul every night (especially at his size) is soft.

Get the man some Kotex and some Midol.  He's already worried about the C's in the playoffs.  He SHOULD hope for a series rematch, but I get the impression from their head to head games that he cannot believe the C's aren't frightened of him like every other team in the league.  This is a soft mindset.  I bet he is hoping we get knocked out before meeting up with him, and this makes him a coward.

[RAcker]

If this were legal, why not wrap the guy across the arm hard after release every shot.  He'd start flinching every time you challenged a shot and shooting percentages would be around 10 %.  

There is an obvious difference between incidental contact and purposeful contact.

Also, what you just described is a foul because the shot was not blocked.  That is the key point you're neglecting - the shot is blocked cleanly first, then incidental contact is made.

You're talking about two completely different scenarios - hitting a guy after the shot is gone and not blocked, and blocking a shot and then following through.

Um, blocking the shot while kicking a man in the jibblies ain't legal either just because you blocked it first and the refs aren't suppose to interview you to see if you meant to hit him or not. 

Incendental contact is not a basketball term.  It's a football term.  Contact is contact in basketball and it it impedes the shot, it is illegal.

By your theory, when PP up fakes you and you land on him as he goes up, it's NOT a foul because you didn't mean to?  Law help us.

[markketch]

LeCrabDribble IS soft.  Thus why he will not beat a healthy Celtics team with or without homecourt.  Anybody that lies on the floor for 20 seconds or so after a foul every night (especially at his size) is soft.

Get the man some Kotex and some Midol.  He's already worried about the C's in the playoffs.  He SHOULD hope for a series rematch, but I get the impression from their head to head games that he cannot believe the C's aren't frightened of him like every other team in the league.  This is a soft mindset.  I bet he is hoping we get knocked out before meeting up with him, and this makes him a coward.

Oh, you talked to LeBron and he said he's worried?  

Maybe he can borrow Paul's wheelchair?

[CelticsWhat35]

There's a difference between the refs letting something go and it not being a foul.  It doesn't matter how far away the ball is, if the shooter gets fouled, it's a foul.  We've seen plenty of times where a defender jumps to contest a three pointer and bumps the shooter after they've both already landed, and a shooting foul is called.

It was NOT a foul. It was a clean block, and the contact AFTER the block is incidental. The contact has no bearing on the shot, since the shot is effectively dead once it has been blocked.

This is completely different than an offensive player forcing contact.

I'm not saying the play was a foul.  I didn't see it.  I was just saying that, based on your description, that's a foul.

[crownsy]

I dunno, i knwo the fact that TNT didn't show a replay feeds into the conspiracy argument, but at full speed that looked pretty clean.

I'd have to see it again, which TNT decided to pass on in favor of showing a play for 3 minutes before hand. (i loath TNT's choies of replays.)

They actually did show one replay of it, and it was clean.  LeBron did hit Outlaw on the arm after the block on his follow through of the swipe, but the ball was well clear and out of Outlaw's hand when that happend.

You can't hit a guy on his follow through and have it be "clean"

if you block the ball full on before hand and then you hit him after the shot is gone, sure you can.

as long as the ball is well clear of his hand, and you block it first, you can hit the guys hand with the follow through. KG does this all the time post rejection.

Just because KG does it doesn't make it legal.  The act of shooting is defined from the beginning of the shooting motion until the completion of follow through and if a jump shot, a return to the floor.  

If this were legal, why not wrap the guy across the arm hard after release every shot.  He'd start flinching every time you challenged a shot and shooting percentages would be around 10 %.  

Sometimes the basic basketball rule arguments on this site are so ridiculous. Example, that three steps is sometimes permitted!  It is not, folks.  Not supposed to be by the rules of the game anyway.

your not understanding what were saying. that would be clearly be a foul because it affected the shot and was intentional. thats why when guys get bumped hard post shot its called even though the shot is gone. it affects there right to a followthrough.

 but go ahead and qoute me the rule that says your not allowed to touch a shooter at all after you block his shot clean. The rule has always been if it affects the shooter (like thsi example you gave which doesn't fit into what we were dicussing) or his follow through, its called, but if it doesn't (like when you spike the ball into his face if your kg and then bump his hand on the way down) its not.

[CelticsWhat35]

LeCrabDribble IS soft.  Thus why he will not beat a healthy Celtics team with or without homecourt.  Anybody that lies on the floor for 20 seconds or so after a foul every night (especially at his size) is soft.

Get the man some Kotex and some Midol.  He's already worried about the C's in the playoffs.  He SHOULD hope for a series rematch, but I get the impression from their head to head games that he cannot believe the C's aren't frightened of him like every other team in the league.  This is a soft mindset.  I bet he is hoping we get knocked out before meeting up with him, and this makes him a coward.

Oh, you talked to LeBron and he said he's worried?  

Maybe he can borrow Paul's wheelchair?

I don't know about that, but I'm sure Paul would let him try on his championship ring.  

[RAcker]

LeCrabDribble IS soft.  Thus why he will not beat a healthy Celtics team with or without homecourt.  Anybody that lies on the floor for 20 seconds or so after a foul every night (especially at his size) is soft.

Get the man some Kotex and some Midol.  He's already worried about the C's in the playoffs.  He SHOULD hope for a series rematch, but I get the impression from their head to head games that he cannot believe the C's aren't frightened of him like every other team in the league.  This is a soft mindset.  I bet he is hoping we get knocked out before meeting up with him, and this makes him a coward.

Oh, you talked to LeBron and he said he's worried?  

Maybe he can borrow Paul's wheelchair?

Here is the difference between me and you...I want you 100% healthy and confident and wanting a piece of us.  It makes crushing your dreams that much sweeter.

Were you that kid that PP dissed on the high five?  Maybe that's what has your Cavalier panties in a wad.

[crownsy]

There's a difference between the refs letting something go and it not being a foul.  It doesn't matter how far away the ball is, if the shooter gets fouled, it's a foul.  We've seen plenty of times where a defender jumps to contest a three pointer and bumps the shooter after they've both already landed, and a shooting foul is called.

It was NOT a foul. It was a clean block, and the contact AFTER the block is incidental. The contact has no bearing on the shot, since the shot is effectively dead once it has been blocked.

This is completely different than an offensive player forcing contact.

I'm not saying the play was a foul.  I didn't see it.  I was just saying that, based on your description, that's a foul.

and i know you think your right celtic, but your not. If you are, go copy and paste the rule that says its a foul.

unintetinal contact after a block isn't a foul unless it directily affects the shooters right to a follow through. This didn't, out law was already blocked (in fact the ball was approaching his noggin at an impressive rate) when his hand got bumped.


ugh. i can't belive im having to defend lebron on this one.

[NoraG1]

LeCrabDribble IS soft.  Thus why he will not beat a healthy Celtics team with or without homecourt.  Anybody that lies on the floor for 20 seconds or so after a foul every night (especially at his size) is soft.

Get the man some Kotex and some Midol.  He's already worried about the C's in the playoffs.  He SHOULD hope for a series rematch, but I get the impression from their head to head games that he cannot believe the C's aren't frightened of him like every other team in the league.  This is a soft mindset.  I bet he is hoping we get knocked out before meeting up with him, and this makes him a coward.

Oh, you talked to LeBron and he said he's worried?  

Maybe he can borrow Paul's wheelchair?

And you can tell he is not worried?