Anyone watching the Blazers Lakers game?

[Drucci]

It is clearly a fragrant foul and Ariza must be suspended for a couple of games. His team was down by 30 points, Rudy was going for the dunk with 3 seconds left in the third quarter... it was clearly a flagrant foul committed by a frustrated player and there should be no question about the suspension!

[crownsy]

I would love to hear Stu Jackson explain to Horford why he got suspended, and Ariza didn't.

It probably went something like this:

"Hey Al, sorry about the suspension, and please don't kick up a fuss about Ariza.  Listen, you will be on the all-star ballot as a forward next year, and we have a way of kicking you an extra 200,000 votes from our colleagues in China.  Whaddaya say?"

"Um, could you make it 400,000?"

"300,000 tops"

"Done"

while funny, count me among those that don't really think the two fouls are the same. Horford got nothing lik a defensive position, Ariza got the ball, and was clearly going for it, not the man.

Horford pretty much assisinated TJ, with no hope of a play on the ball. diffrent imo.

Go back and check the Horford foul.  The only reason the bad contact was made was because Ford tried to change direction at the last second.  Even Chris Bosh, Ford's teammate, was quoted as saying the same thing.

Ive seen it 900 times thanks to the WWL trying to work up outrage last year. I didn't think it was as bad as they made out, but IMO it was a bad foul.

while thats nice of chirs bosh to say, me and chris  don't see eye to eye on this issue . Ford changing made it worse, horford had no shot at the ball, period.

[crownsy]

It is clearly a fragrant foul and Ariza must be suspended for a couple of games. His team was down by 30 points, Rudy was going for the dunk with 3 seconds left in the third quarter... it was clearly a flagrant foul committed by a frustrated player and there should be no question about the suspension!

so you want davis suspended then, correct?

because outside of the time of the quarter and the score, two things that really shouldn't matter worth a [dang] about your defensive intensity, it was the same over the back attempt at a block.

I know we all hate the lakers, but if walker, davis, or powe had done this, all these posts would look like lakersnet this morning. I.E

"hard foul but clean!!"

you know, kinda like the game thread looked right after davis got tossed.

[cordobes]

Ariza wasn't even looking at the ball. He had no chance whatsoever of blocking the shot and he knew it when he leaped off the floor.

There was a swinging motion, the hard contact and the follow through, that's the clear definition of a flagrant 2, unlike Davis foul.

[CelticsWhat35]

Ive seen it 900 times thanks to the WWL trying to work up outrage last year. I didn't think it was as bad as they made out, but IMO it was a bad foul.

while thats nice of chirs bosh to say, me and chris  don't see eye to eye on this issue . Ford changing made it worse, horford had no shot at the ball, period.

You can claim to have watched it as many times as you like, but you lose credibility when you say that a 6'8 defender running alongside a 5'11 point guard has "no shot at the ball".  I'm no fan of Al Horford, but the video is easy to see.

[Cman]

It is clearly a fragrant foul and Ariza must be suspended for a couple of games. His team was down by 30 points, Rudy was going for the dunk with 3 seconds left in the third quarter... it was clearly a flagrant foul committed by a frustrated player and there should be no question about the suspension!

so you want davis suspended then, correct?

because outside of the time of the quarter and the score, two things that really shouldn't matter worth a [dang] about your defensive intensity, it was the same over the back attempt at a block.

I know we all hate the lakers, but if walker, davis, or powe had done this, all these posts would look like lakersnet this morning. I.E

"hard foul but clean!!"

you know, kinda like the game thread looked right after davis got tossed.

I realize your comparison with BBD is an attempt to make a point, but you would certainly agree that, if Horford's and Ariza's fouls were different (as you argue above), then BBD's foul is different as well.  Varejao wasn't sprinting full speed at the basket, and hadn't launched into the air (very much).  Also, I think Celtics were up at that point, so hard to argue that BBD was acting out of frustration for being blown out by the Cavs, same way Lakers were frustrated by being blown out by the Blazers...

[crownsy]

Ariza wasn't even looking at the ball. He had no chance whatsoever of blocking the shot and he knew it when he leaped off the floor.

There was a swinging motion, the hard contact and the follow through, that's the clear definition of a flagrant 2, unlike Davis foul.

odd, he's not looking at rudy, the guy he's supposedly out to injure, either, mabey he's stoned and doesn't know whats going on?

or, far more likely, draw a line from his eyes forward. he is looking between rudy's hands, at where the ball would be if it hadent popped out a few seconds earlier in your still frame.

I'm sure i can find a still frame where davis isn't looking at the ball through side show's shoulder, but it doesn't prove jack about intent.

It was a hard foul, defintly a fragrant one. but to try to crucify ariza and laud davis for "hustle defense" for throwing side show to the floor head first is the height of homerism.

They both deserved flagrant 1's, which they both got. they shouldn't have been tossed, but thats the NBA. Toss now, reduce later is the rule of law. move on with your lives.  

[ACF]

Look at Ariza's facial expression!
He is clearly mad and is going for the
tough foul here. One more reason to
hate on the Lakers 

[Drucci]

It is clearly a fragrant foul and Ariza must be suspended for a couple of games. His team was down by 30 points, Rudy was going for the dunk with 3 seconds left in the third quarter... it was clearly a flagrant foul committed by a frustrated player and there should be no question about the suspension!

so you want davis suspended then, correct?

because outside of the time of the quarter and the score, two things that really shouldn't matter worth a [dang] about your defensive intensity, it was the same over the back attempt at a block.

I know we all hate the lakers, but if walker, davis, or powe had done this, all these posts would look like lakersnet this morning. I.E

"hard foul but clean!!"

you know, kinda like the game thread looked right after davis got tossed.

The fact that it happened during the last seconds of the quarter when his team was blown out by 30+ points can't be overlooked. I don't think that Ariza wanted to hurt Rudy that much but the fact is that he pushed his head. Moreover he really discussed the foul (like if there was no foul at all) and was ready to fight with the Blazers. I mean, his whole behaviour was quite aggressive, don't you think so?

The Davis foul was really different. It deserved an ejection but no further suspensions. As Cman pointed out, Varejao wasn't at full speed, in the air, and leading the fastbreak. Moreover, Big Baby was clearly going for the ball and didn't discuss the call nor tried to fight with Ilgauskas when he rushed at him.

Howewer, I think that the Perkins' foul on Maxiell deserved further suspensions because he wasn't going for the ball and he just slashed Maxiell (while the Celtics were leading though). It's hard to understand why he did that but he clearly deserved an ejection and further suspensions. Ariza deserves the same "punishment" but the NBA doesn't think so... as it didn't think so for Perk.

[D Dub]

It is clearly a fragrant foul and Ariza must be suspended for a couple of games. His team was down by 30 points, Rudy was going for the dunk with 3 seconds left in the third quarter... it was clearly a flagrant foul committed by a frustrated player and there should be no question about the suspension!

so you want davis suspended then, correct?

because outside of the time of the quarter and the score, two things that really shouldn't matter worth a [dang] about your defensive intensity, it was the same over the back attempt at a block.

I know we all hate the lakers, but if walker, davis, or powe had done this, all these posts would look like lakersnet this morning. I.E

"hard foul but clean!!"

you know, kinda like the game thread looked right after davis got tossed.

Apples and Oranges.  One was an uncontested break away dunk.  One was a putback in a crowd under the basket.

Davis went up strong and ended up around AV's head with his foul through.  In a crowd of bodies all boxing out and fighting for the putback in close game, that can happen.  It should have been a flagrant 1, and I believe the league review agrees with me.

Ariza and Rudy on the other hand were all alone in the open court.  He made his mind up at half court that Rudy wasn't getting that shot off.  By winding up and delivering the forearm to the back of the head he shows clear intent to cause harm.  

Nate McMillian after the game said it best (no stranger to hard fouls himself), you can break up that play without it being so dangerous.  Ariza showed clear intent that he was only interested in taking Rudy to the ground very hard.  Its not like that deuce put the game out of reach.  It was violent reaction caused out of frustration and exactly the type of thing the league should be penalizing players for.

Apples and Oranges.

[crownsy]

Ive seen it 900 times thanks to the WWL trying to work up outrage last year. I didn't think it was as bad as they made out, but IMO it was a bad foul.

while thats nice of chirs bosh to say, me and chris  don't see eye to eye on this issue . Ford changing made it worse, horford had no shot at the ball, period.

You can claim to have watched it as many times as you like, but you lose credibility when you say that a 6'8 defender running alongside a 5'11 point guard has "no shot at the ball".  I'm no fan of Al Horford, but the video is easy to see.

you lose crediblity with me when you disregard every circimstance of davis foul in the other thread that was bad (like making sure sideshow went down hard) and crucify ariza because he was "running harder"

I realize we all hate the lakers, I do to, but you don't need to make crazy conspiracy theroies about ariza out to end rudy's life to try to make it liek the NBA should suspened him 10 games.

They were both (davis and ariza) hard fouls. flagrant 1's to be sure. but as i said, not one person who is currently trying to convince me that trevor ariza had a intent to end rudy's life would ever make the same argument if he was wearing green.

Fan blinders are fun, but they shouldn't override fact. The NBA was right not to suspend him, just as they were with davis. I feel horrable for rudy, i love the kid, one of my top 10 non celtics to watch. but those are the breaks, its a physical game, despite stern's best efforts.

now odom, on the other hand, should get a one game suspension, since while ridculous, the rule is if you take one step, your gone.

[crownsy]

It is clearly a fragrant foul and Ariza must be suspended for a couple of games. His team was down by 30 points, Rudy was going for the dunk with 3 seconds left in the third quarter... it was clearly a flagrant foul committed by a frustrated player and there should be no question about the suspension!

so you want davis suspended then, correct?

because outside of the time of the quarter and the score, two things that really shouldn't matter worth a [dang] about your defensive intensity, it was the same over the back attempt at a block.

I know we all hate the lakers, but if walker, davis, or powe had done this, all these posts would look like lakersnet this morning. I.E

"hard foul but clean!!"

you know, kinda like the game thread looked right after davis got tossed.

The fact that it happened during the last seconds of the quarter when his team was blown out by 30+ points can't be overlooked. I don't think that Ariza wanted to hurt Rudy that much but the fact is that he pushed his head. Moreover he really discussed the foul (like if there was no foul at all) and was ready to fight with the Blazers. I mean, his whole behaviour was quite aggressive, don't you think so?

The Davis foul was really different. It deserved an ejection but no further suspensions. As Cman pointed out, Varejao wasn't at full speed, in the air, and leading the fastbreak. Moreover, Big Baby was clearly going for the ball and didn't discuss the call nor tried to fight with Ilgauskas when he rushed at him.

Howewer, I think that the Perkins' foul on Maxiell deserved further suspensions because he wasn't going for the ball and he just slashed Maxiell (while the Celtics were leading though). It's hard to understand why he did that but he clearly deserved an ejection and further suspensions. Ariza deserves the same "punishment" but the NBA doesn't think so... as it didn't think so for Perk.

can you go ahead and link my the rule that says your not allowed to play hard and take away a break away layup when your down big or up big?

I'll wait, TP's in hand.

he got tossed, which was the correct move to keep control of the game, and he got a flagrant 1 and no time, also the correct call.


and again, it's easy to say "man i would still want him suspended if this was a celtics player!!!" but deep down, you all know that isn't true.

again, ariza got what was warented. My only problm with the NBA is if odom doesn't get a suspension for coming off the bench.

[fugazzi24]

I thought in the rule any blow to the head or to a player from behind was a flagrant.  It is clearly a case of a hard frustration foul which not only the Lakers but all teams commit.  He should get a flagrant foul and serve a one game suspension. 

Also if you watched last nights game, Gasol was pushing guys all over the place with no fouls called.  I think because he is tall and thin and labeled as a softer player he can pretty much do whatever he wants to get the ball.  Particularly just before halftime LA was shooting a freethrow and he pushed Pryzbilla with two hands all the way under the basket with no call.  Gasol is always getting put back layups because he pushes his man under the basket.

[CelticsWhat35]

Ive seen it 900 times thanks to the WWL trying to work up outrage last year. I didn't think it was as bad as they made out, but IMO it was a bad foul.

while thats nice of chirs bosh to say, me and chris  don't see eye to eye on this issue . Ford changing made it worse, horford had no shot at the ball, period.

You can claim to have watched it as many times as you like, but you lose credibility when you say that a 6'8 defender running alongside a 5'11 point guard has "no shot at the ball".  I'm no fan of Al Horford, but the video is easy to see.

you lose crediblity with me when you disregard every circimstance of davis foul in the other thread that was bad (like making sure sideshow went down hard) and crucify ariza because he was "running harder"

I realize we all hate the lakers, I do to, but you don't need to make crazy conspiracy theroies about ariza out to end rudy's life to try to make it liek the NBA should suspened him 10 games.

They were both (davis and ariza) hard fouls. flagrant 1's to be sure. but as i said, not one person who is currently trying to convince me that trevor ariza had a intent to end rudy's life would ever make the same argument if he was wearing green.

Fan blinders are fun, but they shouldn't override fact. The NBA was right not to suspend him, just as they were with davis. I feel horrable for rudy, i love the kid, one of my top 10 non celtics to watch. but those are the breaks, its a physical game, despite stern's best efforts.

now odom, on the other hand, should get a one game suspension, since while ridculous, the rule is if you take one step, your gone.

Nice see that you're picking and choosing what you want to read from other posters to get to your point.  I've said that I have no problem with those who think it was a flagrant 1 and can see there point.  My question was that how can that be considered a flagrant 1, and Horford's a flagrant 2?  You're really starting to reach when you bring in Davis' foul, when it has nothing to do with my original question that you responded to.

[Cman]

again, ariza got what was warented. My only problm with the NBA is if odom doesn't get a suspension for coming off the bench.

I'll agree with you that it is much more of a head shaker if Odom doesn't get a suspension.  The rules are very clear on that.