Author Topic: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:  (Read 29884 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2009, 12:04:49 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2644
  • Tommy Points: 447
I'd rather lose a few more games if we have to in order to have Pierce rested for the playoffs. We've had a lot of injuries this year. If Tony and Scal were healthy I think Pierce would be getting the rest he needs. But they aren't.

Therefore, play Bill walker at the 3...for 10-15 minutes. If he's playing well and not hurting you, play him until he fouls out or is hurting you.

Play him as much as you can get away with.

A rested Pierce in the fourth can win you games anyway... 

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2009, 12:08:04 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2644
  • Tommy Points: 447
Also, while TAllen and Scal "can play" the small forward, TAllen is really an off guard who's too small and Scal a Power forward who's too slow...so I agree with coachbo that we should have brought in any average small forward who could play 10-15 minutes a night. Matt Barnes, Ira Newble, Heck, Justin Reed to play 10 minutes of energy ball or brandon Wallace, anyone with normal small forward height who could just hold their own for 10-12 minuts behind Pierce...didn't have to be a superstar.

Ainge bascially chose to go into this season with:

No legt back up center
No legit back up small forward
No legit back up point

Tough way to try ad repeat...   

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2009, 12:08:52 PM »

Offline Change

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6666
  • Tommy Points: 544
Danny also needs to take some of the blame here for drafting two wings one of whom he thinks is NBA ready and not consulting with Doc about their chances of cracking the rotation

Actually you are wrong. Do these guys actually poses any talent? Yes. Why draft a guy that already hit his peak (which is not good enough) JR & Billy upside is huge. And time will prove this Right.

These guys have the natural talent but are missing the knowledge of this game. I was hoping for PP to mentor Billy and Ray to mentor JR. But it looks like no mentoring has happened yet due to their absence playing @ D-league. 

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2009, 12:09:29 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
Also, while TAllen and Scal "can play" the small forward, TAllen is really an off guard who's too small and Scal a Power forward who's too slow...so I agree with coachbo that we should have brought in any average small forward who could play 10-15 minutes a night. Matt Barnes, Ira Newble, Heck, Justin Reed to play 10 minutes of energy ball or brandon Wallace, anyone with normal small forward height who could just hold their own for 10-12 minuts behind Pierce...didn't have to be a superstar.

Ainge bascially chose to go into this season with:

No legt back up center
No legit back up small forward
No legit back up point

Tough way to try ad repeat...   

eddie house/ sam cassell from last year was a "legit" backup point but a former all star isnt?

tough crowd, though i agree on the SF with you.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2009, 12:12:05 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19003
  • Tommy Points: 1833
I really don't buy into the "we can't play them because we're going to lose games" philosophy. We have games were Rondo plays poorly, and we still win. We have games were Ray plays poorly, and we still win. We have games were Pierce plays poorly, and we still win. We have games were Garnett plays poorly and we still win... House, Scal, TA, Perk, Pruitt, Powe, Davis, etc. etc.

Games are fluid, and so should be the decisions made in them. When something is not working on that particular day, you go elsewhere... it's quite simple in that regard. Fact is that there's room for this guy to get some minutes in, there's no doubt about that. All that's missing is the opportunity to be provided for them, and for Doc to do some in-game coaching to make sure we don't lose games if there are poor performances (maybe they give out some excellent performances, then what?).

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2009, 12:29:48 PM »

Offline MVP

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 374
  • Tommy Points: 35
Just put Bill Walker out there in the 2nd quarter with the starters when they come back in and give Pierce a few minutes rest. What's the big deal? We would have Rondo, Ray out there (and KG when he comes back). Walker wouldn't have much pressure on him but to play hard. He is a type of guy who could get you an offensive rebound or two in a short stint and of course he's always a threat for a big dunk, especially if he plays with Rondo. I don't know why Doc is so stubborn in not playing Walker or Giddens for a few minutes.

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2009, 12:33:29 PM »

Offline illantari

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 741
  • Tommy Points: 112
Not to be too shameless but... Join the Free Billy Campaign everyone!

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2009, 12:36:45 PM »

Offline elcotte

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 438
  • Tommy Points: 52
Yeah, Danny has said the same thing.  Playing Paul Pierce 48 minutes when he has complained about fatigue concerns is ridiculous.  Danny needs to sit Doc down and tell him he's going to kill our guys heading into the playoffs.

Doc was put in a bad situation with the roster he's been handed, but he's got to make the best of it.  In February, Paul averaged 41.1 minutes.  Last night, he played 48.  That's disgusting, especially in light of Paul's previously voiced concerns about wearing down.

Doc has had this roster since day one...it's up to him to make sure he utilizes it correctly. You cannot tell me that he couldn't work in some minutes all along for Walker or Giddens. Now it's crunch time...let's see what he does.

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2009, 12:46:09 PM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
I am a big Doc supporter, and think he has done a tremendous job the last two years...but I have to jump on the bandwagon here.  And to be honest, I think the whole burning them out for the playoffs angle is a little overdone.  My concern is that when he is playing Pierce these rediculous minutes...and particularly playing him the entire second half without a rest...it leaves him without anything left in crunch time. 

I don't think its a coincidence that the C's have had some trouble finishing off games lately.  Pierce, and Allen to a lesser extent have looked exhausted at the end of games, and it has shown in their inability to make shots, and missing defensive assignments.

I know its tough to throw someone you don't trust out there, but at some point, you need to do it, even for a few minutes, or else your starters are just not going to be able to finish the game strong.

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2009, 01:13:44 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10726
  • Tommy Points: 830
I thought this thread was going to be about how he said he'd retire if and when Doc leaves.

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2009, 01:16:04 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

  • In The Rafters
  • The Natural
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33333
  • Tommy Points: 6430
  • Doc could learn a thing or two from Norman Dale
Yeah, Danny has said the same thing.  Playing Paul Pierce 48 minutes when he has complained about fatigue concerns is ridiculous.  Danny needs to sit Doc down and tell him he's going to kill our guys heading into the playoffs.

Doc was put in a bad situation with the roster he's been handed, but he's got to make the best of it.  In February, Paul averaged 41.1 minutes.  Last night, he played 48.  That's disgusting, especially in light of Paul's previously voiced concerns about wearing down.

Doc has had this roster since day one...it's up to him to make sure he utilizes it correctly. You cannot tell me that he couldn't work in some minutes all along for Walker or Giddens. Now it's crunch time...let's see what he does.

Well, earlier in the year Doc had Tony and Scal that he needed to incorporate, so I can understand not giving Giddens or Walker minutes earlier.  That's why I'm not blaming him for not having Walker ready.

However, there's no excuse now not to give the kids minutes.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2009, 01:19:04 PM »

Offline Jon

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6500
  • Tommy Points: 385
Hopefully, as Marbury gets more integrated, the C's will be able to play Walker and/or Giddens with even less reserve.  Marbury's ability to create offense should mitigate Doc's concerns about having the young guys out there. 

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2009, 02:00:01 PM »

Offline celts55

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2680
  • Tommy Points: 579
I might be wrong, but didn't the Celtics loss yesterday, with Pierce playing all 48 minutes? I could almost understand it, if it worked, but he looked beat in the 4th quarter. It seems to me they would have had a much better shot with a rested Pierce in the 4th quarter. While I understand Doc's hesatation at playing Walker or giddens, I couldn't help but notice on Friday night, a second team of Powe, Moore, Marbury, House, and Ray Allen played pretty well together. If he id That conserned perhaps with rookies perhaps he shoule have at least split PP and Ray's time. Playing anyone 48 minutes is just plain dumb in my opinion. 

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2009, 02:13:43 PM »

Offline Mr October

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6129
  • Tommy Points: 247
We Need to play a backup 3 - Walker is the best option right now. Even if we just get 8 minutes a game (when the game still matters).

Burning Pierce out over the next couple weeks makes no sense what so ever.  I dont give a crap about home court advantage. Lets have a healthy team, with depth at each position.

Heck, what if Pierce goes down with a big injury. Then we are totally screwed.

Re: Pierce saying what we all have been saying:
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2009, 02:22:43 PM »

Offline paintitgreen

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1109
  • Tommy Points: 154
I don't blame Ainge over the present situation, except for the fact that he chose to go into the year with Tony Allen as the backup 3. While I understand he had flashes in the past indicating he might be a serviceable rotation player (and I understand I've always disliked Allen way more than most people on this board), I thought it was plain to see after last year that there has never been any evidence supporting the idea that Allen can play the 3. He's a 2, that's it. Ainge talked on EEI last week about how he likes TA and House individually as players, but they can't play together because it's obvious House is better working off the ball. Unsaid but implicit is that Allen can't play with House because they're both 2s, and can't play other positions. So even Ainge sees it now (I just wonder why it wasn't seen before when it was so obvious).

As for Scalabrine, he was being used as a 4 and 5, I just wonder why he was also expected to be used as a backup 3. He clearly doesn't have the quickness to stay out on the perimeter defensively, particularly when the role he primarily was filling calls for him to stay down on the blocks defensively. Still, Ainge also gave a couple of rookies to Doc, and it was Doc's responsibility to get one of them ready to play some minutes when necessary.

Now, my blame for this goes to Doc because he's not following the obvious example set by the most successful franchise of the past decade, San Antonio. When Ginobli was injured earlier this month, Popovich said the one thing he wouldn't do to make up for the loss is give more minutes to Duncan and Parker. Even when Duncan joined Ginobli on the sidelines, Parker's minutes didn't spike up, they stayed steady at 30-35 minutes a night. That's the right way to do it, and a good reason why San Antonio is always rested and ready for the playoffs. He doesn't burn his best players out earlier in the season, he keeps the minutes steady and manageable, exercising almost excessive caution so he knows a) they'll be ready for more minutes in the playoffs and b) his backup guys are used to playing.

If Pierce is worn down now, how's that gonna get better in a month or two? And who's gonna be ready for those minutes if Pierce has foul trouble, nagging injuries or fatigue in the playoffs? We need somebody like Walker to be ready to get in there, and he's not, because Doc is regressing to a quality his biggest critics always cited to - his unwillingness to get young guys minutes unless there is absolutely no choice.

Is he waiting for Pierce to be hurt before trying to see if Walker can play minutes in anything other than garbage time? Just consistently give him 10 minutes a night for 2-3 weeks, against all competition, and at least see how it goes. It's a need we're going to have in a playoff run that might very well involve series against Philly (running team with a lot of 3s, led by Iguodala), Orlando (Turkoglu and Lewis are both really 3s) and Cleveland (Lebron). I just don't see why Doc doesn't take the cue from a guy like Popovich and see you need to give reps to your bench players, even rookies (i.e., George Hill).
Go Celtics.