"Notable" Hall of Fame Finalists

[xmuscularghandix]

On ESPN this was the hightlight, but DJ is a finalist and he's not notable. I'm EXTREMELY PO'd on this one.

[Brickowski]

The NBA HOF is a joke until Bernard King gets in.

The other big injustice is Artis Gilmore.  I quote from Wikipedia:

"Despite an ABA career in which he averaged 22.3 points and 17.1 rebounds per game, NBA career averages of 17.1 points and 10.1 rebounds per game, Gilmore has yet to be elected to the Basketball Hall of Fame. In addition to being pro basketball's all-time most successful field goal percentage shooter, Gilmore ranks among the top 25 all-time point scorers, as well as in the top ten in rebounds, blocked shots, games and minutes played. No other players with comparable statistical accomplishments have been omitted from the Hall of Fame. Gilmore remains ineligible for consideration of Hall of Fame enshrinement until 2012. For the past three years he failed to receive a single vote of support from a panel of nine members serving on the North American screening committee. This committee is anonymous."

[celticmaestro]

DJ will never be "notable" and in all honesty probably wont even get in. As C's fans we should be used to this by now because it's not likely to change.

[Redz]

The NBA HOF is a joke until Bernard King gets in.

The other big injustice is Artis Gilmore.  I quote from Wikipedia:

"Despite an ABA career in which he averaged 22.3 points and 17.1 rebounds per game, NBA career averages of 17.1 points and 10.1 rebounds per game, Gilmore has yet to be elected to the Basketball Hall of Fame. In addition to being pro basketball's all-time most successful field goal percentage shooter, Gilmore ranks among the top 25 all-time point scorers, as well as in the top ten in rebounds, blocked shots, games and minutes played. No other players with comparable statistical accomplishments have been omitted from the Hall of Fame. Gilmore remains ineligible for consideration of Hall of Fame enshrinement until 2012. For the past three years he failed to receive a single vote of support from a panel of nine members serving on the North American screening committee. This committee is anonymous."

I think Artis' crime was having his career overlap with Kareem's.  He was bigger and stronger, but a lot less graceful or offensive minded and he never won anything.  Still, he had a good long career and was feared.

[dark_lord]

i LOVE me some bernard king!  that guy could score like nobody's business.  too bad injuries got the best of him.

[WaltonsIllegitimateSon]

I agree that Gilmore and King should be in there.

But as Celtics fans, we should be more diligent in promoting one of our own!  We don't get to the Finals in '87 without Dennis Johnson, and his career prior to coming to Boston is one that "only" included an NBA Finals MVP, something King never won.  (Gilmore is a sad victim of the ABA bias, I think.  If he'd been in the NBA his whole career, everyone would know him better nowadays.)

But I think we should all honor DJ in this space, because he's such a consummate Celtic!  (Artis' cup of coffee with the Cs doesn't quite cut it, though I was a fan back then!)

Shame on the Hall of Fame committee for these omissions!

All hail DJ!!

[ACF]

[Fan from VT]

I agree that Gilmore and King should be in there.

But as Celtics fans, we should be more diligent in promoting one of our own!  We don't get to the Finals in '87 without Dennis Johnson, and his career prior to coming to Boston is one that "only" included an NBA Finals MVP, something King never won.  (Gilmore is a sad victim of the ABA bias, I think.  If he'd been in the NBA his whole career, everyone would know him better nowadays.)

But I think we should all honor DJ in this space, because he's such a consummate Celtic!  (Artis' cup of coffee with the Cs doesn't quite cut it, though I was a fan back then!)

Shame on the Hall of Fame committee for these omissions!

All hail DJ!!

I'll admit that DJ was a little before my time. However, you have to draw the line somewhere. I don't agree with your logic about the '87 finals AT ALL. The C's wouldn't have made it last year without Perk's solid D in the middle. Is he a hall of famer? Is Derek Fisher a hall of famer? those Laker teams needed his shooting, wouldn't have gotten there without it. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and being on a team that wins a title does not automatically stamp your ticket. For my money, simply being a role player on a great team is the single most important thing in getting players overrated these days. It's way too overused in picking an MVP (it's not any given player's fault if their teammates stink), All-star rosters (David West over Al Jefferson?), and HoF criteria.

[BrickJames]

How about other HoF'ers saying that DJ deserves to be in the HoF?  DJ had quite the productive career before landing in Boston and really set the bar for modern PGs on both sides of the ball.

He had a lot of respect from the players he played with - even the HoF caliber ones.  If you asked players today if Fisher or Perkins should be HoF you know the answer you will get.  So your "role player" analogy is flawed, in my opinion.

I agree that Gilmore and King should be in there.

But as Celtics fans, we should be more diligent in promoting one of our own!  We don't get to the Finals in '87 without Dennis Johnson, and his career prior to coming to Boston is one that "only" included an NBA Finals MVP, something King never won.  (Gilmore is a sad victim of the ABA bias, I think.  If he'd been in the NBA his whole career, everyone would know him better nowadays.)

But I think we should all honor DJ in this space, because he's such a consummate Celtic!  (Artis' cup of coffee with the Cs doesn't quite cut it, though I was a fan back then!)

Shame on the Hall of Fame committee for these omissions!

All hail DJ!!

I'll admit that DJ was a little before my time. However, you have to draw the line somewhere. I don't agree with your logic about the '87 finals AT ALL. The C's wouldn't have made it last year without Perk's solid D in the middle. Is he a hall of famer? Is Derek Fisher a hall of famer? those Laker teams needed his shooting, wouldn't have gotten there without it. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and being on a team that wins a title does not automatically stamp your ticket. For my money, simply being a role player on a great team is the single most important thing in getting players overrated these days. It's way too overused in picking an MVP (it's not any given player's fault if their teammates stink), All-star rosters (David West over Al Jefferson?), and HoF criteria.

[Brickowski]

I agree that Gilmore and King should be in there.

But as Celtics fans, we should be more diligent in promoting one of our own!  We don't get to the Finals in '87 without Dennis Johnson, and his career prior to coming to Boston is one that "only" included an NBA Finals MVP, something King never won.  (Gilmore is a sad victim of the ABA bias, I think.  If he'd been in the NBA his whole career, everyone would know him better nowadays.)

But I think we should all honor DJ in this space, because he's such a consummate Celtic!  (Artis' cup of coffee with the Cs doesn't quite cut it, though I was a fan back then!)

Shame on the Hall of Fame committee for these omissions!

All hail DJ!!

DJ was a great player, but Kind and Gilmore deserve it more than DJ.  Besides, they are both alive, and it will matter more to them.

[KCattheStripe]

I agree that Gilmore and King should be in there.

But as Celtics fans, we should be more diligent in promoting one of our own!  We don't get to the Finals in '87 without Dennis Johnson, and his career prior to coming to Boston is one that "only" included an NBA Finals MVP, something King never won.  (Gilmore is a sad victim of the ABA bias, I think.  If he'd been in the NBA his whole career, everyone would know him better nowadays.)

But I think we should all honor DJ in this space, because he's such a consummate Celtic!  (Artis' cup of coffee with the Cs doesn't quite cut it, though I was a fan back then!)

Shame on the Hall of Fame committee for these omissions!

All hail DJ!!

DJ was a great player, but Kind and Gilmore deserve it more than DJ.  Besides, they are both alive, and it will matter more to them.

Wow... just wow.

[Fan from VT]

How about other HoF'ers saying that DJ deserves to be in the HoF?  DJ had quite the productive career before landing in Boston and really set the bar for modern PGs on both sides of the ball.

He had a lot of respect from the players he played with - even the HoF caliber ones.  If you asked players today if Fisher or Perkins should be HoF you know the answer you will get.  So your "role player" analogy is flawed, in my opinion.

I agree that Gilmore and King should be in there.

But as Celtics fans, we should be more diligent in promoting one of our own!  We don't get to the Finals in '87 without Dennis Johnson, and his career prior to coming to Boston is one that "only" included an NBA Finals MVP, something King never won.  (Gilmore is a sad victim of the ABA bias, I think.  If he'd been in the NBA his whole career, everyone would know him better nowadays.)

But I think we should all honor DJ in this space, because he's such a consummate Celtic!  (Artis' cup of coffee with the Cs doesn't quite cut it, though I was a fan back then!)

Shame on the Hall of Fame committee for these omissions!

All hail DJ!!

I'll admit that DJ was a little before my time. However, you have to draw the line somewhere. I don't agree with your logic about the '87 finals AT ALL. The C's wouldn't have made it last year without Perk's solid D in the middle. Is he a hall of famer? Is Derek Fisher a hall of famer? those Laker teams needed his shooting, wouldn't have gotten there without it. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and being on a team that wins a title does not automatically stamp your ticket. For my money, simply being a role player on a great team is the single most important thing in getting players overrated these days. It's way too overused in picking an MVP (it's not any given player's fault if their teammates stink), All-star rosters (David West over Al Jefferson?), and HoF criteria.

My main point is that I think a lot of Celtics fans think that any player that contributed to a Celtics championship should be a Hall of Famer and have their number retired. I think that being on a team that wins the title is one of the great overraters, mostly because it makes a great story for writers.

[ACF]

When DJ left Seattle, they had
a much worse record than they
had with him. Same thing in PHX.
Also, DJ won championships with
two different teams. And Bird
said DJ was the best teammate he
ever had. All of this spells
"Hall of Fame" to me.

[WaltonsIllegitimateSon]

Dennis Johnson on the Celtics was NOT a role player.

Fan from VT, I appreciate that you didn't see those games, but if you can, try to catch 1987 Conference Finals Game 5 (the famous play called Bird Stole The Ball) or Game 7.  When Bird stole the ball, DJ made the layup that won the game.  I was NOT talking about someone who was just a crucial part of a great team, even though he was!  I meant, Dennis Johnson put the team in the Finals by himself at that moment in that game, even with Bird's steal.

Even more than that:  he was MUCH more to basketball than just a great Celtic.  All-NBA twice.  All-Defensive team NINE straight years.  And for many of us, his ability to suddenly become even greater when the game was on the line makes him one of the best clutch players in the history of the game.  People maybe talk too much about the "Big Three," and forget who the point guard was for seven of their best years.

DJ was a guy whose stats don't begin to tell the story.  Watch the games.

Amazing that one should have to defend an all-time-great Celtic... on a Celtics forum!

DJ belongs in the Hall!!

[Fan from VT]

It's true. I'm not in the best position to comment, especially with regards to DJ in particular. I admit that.

I'm very wary of Nostalgia and its effect on HoF worthiness. I believe Halls of Fame are Relative institutions, in that players should be regarded in comparison to those against whom they played. Sure, Jim Rice's numbers are unimpressive by today's standards, but he was feared by all when he was playing.

How many players from DJ's era would teams have rather had than DJ? I know DJ was a very good player, and he certainly had moments of true excellence. But say someone was starting a franchise in 1985...how many players would be picked over him? In my opinion, the HoF should be reserved for Franchise type players; it should be hard to get in.

That being said, I do believe the Basketball Hall of Fame is a joke and can't wait for a straight NBA hall of fame.