POB

[gar]

Was not expecting a feel good POB thread. Glad to see him get a fair chance. At least we've gotten beyond the unwarranted lazy bum comments and are finally talking about his game. Thanks for the analysis. As for the quick fouls comments, if Pollard is put in for four minutes and gets two fouls we applaud his veteran presence. Definitely a problem for a starting center; but don't see the problem at this stage. As was mentioned, BBD and Powe have both improved on this when given consistent playing time.

[CoachBo]

Giving credit where credit is due POB did a fabulous job of establishing position on that basket he made. He got the position, held off his defender and positioned his defender under the basket, and finished the turn and lay in. He had a great backdoor pass into Ray Allen that Ray missed the bunny on. He had a block. And I think a couple of rebounds.

But as Roy mentioned he made two quick fouls, though Leon pick up three in less time. The fouls being called were extremely one sided but his were rather egregious and were make ups for his being out of position.

He was lost on the defensive rotations. Go back and watch that. When a rotation was needed he just kind of sat in the paint and waited for a man to come near him and had his eyes following the ball the whole time. His positional defense was atrocious.

For all his hustle he was constantly the last man down the court in both directions. Either he is clueless on when to break, has zero ability to get out of the box quickly or is just plain slow as molasses. You would figure that a man buried on the bench as long as he has been would be flying up and down the court trying to impress.

His lateral movement and footwork is still just awful and he gets so caught up in watching the ball after it is shot that he is constantly getting pushed off the blocks.

He had a couple of decent minutes last night. I'm not saying he didn't. But the lack of anything resembling growth in his effort or knowledge or overall game just is non existent.

Your antipathy towards O'Bryant is well documented. Your most recent comments are not just misleading, they are false. I have watched POB's 5 minutes from yesterday's games several times.  He is hustling his ass off every time, on almost every transition the first big up the floor. He is working very well on the defensive rotations.  The first of his two fouls was ticky tacky at best.

Look, you don't have to like the guy, but don't make up things about him based on last night's performance that are completely untrue. If you taped it, I would suggest you re-watch it. He showed Great effort last night, and I hope is rewarded with more and more minutes as the season progresses.

Nick's account is 100 percent accurate.

[nickagneta]

Well the Celtics coaching squad thinks he is worth a few minutes here and there...

Do they?  I'm not sure it's a choice.  With KG and Scal injured, POB is the de facto fourth big man.  If the team could avoid playing him, I expect that they would.

Gotta agree.

I was hoping that Doc was using Gabe Pruitt because he saw what the kid could do with his perimeter defense and ball handling. sadly, Tony Allen returned and we have not seen hide nor hair of Pruitt ever since.

It has to be the same with POB because he was used for exactly the same amount of time at virtually the same time in both games. He never saw second half play in close games(okay the Minny game was in hand but they did make it interesting for a little while in the second half). I can only figure Doc needed about 4 minutes figuring Baby and Leon and Perk give their maximum performance if playing below X amount of minutes and those maxs still came up 4 minutes short on what Doc needed.

When KG is back POB should return to the bench for his usual DNP-CD or garbage time.

BTW footey, I stand by everything I said about POB. I rewatched those 4 minutes. I saw exactly what I stated the first time and no more. Check especially on the defensive end. POB often got lost on the rotaton and just kinda of hung in the middle until a man came his way. He refused to box out on the defensive end instead going to try to block everything even if way out of position. Often it left him unable to box out or anywhere near being in rebounding position. I counted three separate occasions in which once the rebound was reigned in by someone POB was directly under the basket. UNDERNEATH it. Not the best of places to try to get a rebound from.

[footey]

Well the Celtics coaching squad thinks he is worth a few minutes here and there...

Do they?  I'm not sure it's a choice.  With KG and Scal injured, POB is the de facto fourth big man.  If the team could avoid playing him, I expect that they would.

Gotta agree.

I was hoping that Doc was using Gabe Pruitt because he saw what the kid could do with his perimeter defense and ball handling. sadly, Tony Allen returned and we have not seen hide nor hair of Pruitt ever since.

It has to be the same with POB because he was used for exactly the same amount of time at virtually the same time in both games. He never saw second half play in close games(okay the Minny game was in hand but they did make it interesting for a little while in the second half). I can only figure Doc needed about 4 minutes figuring Baby and Leon and Perk give their maximum performance if playing below X amount of minutes and those maxs still came up 4 minutes short on what Doc needed.

When KG is back POB should return to the bench for his usual DNP-CD or garbage time.

BTW footey, I stand by everything I said about POB. I rewatched those 4 minutes. I saw exactly what I stated the first time and no more. Check especially on the defensive end. POB often got lost on the rotaton and just kinda of hung in the middle until a man came his way. He refused to box out on the defensive end instead going to try to block everything even if way out of position. Often it left him unable to box out or anywhere near being in rebounding position. I counted three separate occasions in which once the rebound was reigned in by someone POB was directly under the basket. UNDERNEATH it. Not the best of places to try to get a rebound from.

Someone should post those 4 plus minutes on here and let Celtic fans be the judge, because your account (concurred, what a shock, by Bo) that he was not hustling, was the last guy up the floor, is completely contradicted by the video. Video don't lie.  Your account that he does not box out is contradicted in the video.  Your account that he misses his defensive assignments is contradicted by the video.

[Chris]

Well the Celtics coaching squad thinks he is worth a few minutes here and there...

Do they?  I'm not sure it's a choice.  With KG and Scal injured, POB is the de facto fourth big man.  If the team could avoid playing him, I expect that they would.

Exactly.  And I think if Scal and KG were going to be out for longer than just a couple of games, they would have gone a different route, and likely tried to play small ball.  But for such a short amount of time, Doc did not want to try to shake things up too much, so he threw him out there for long enough to get the other guys some rest, but not long enough for him to be too exposed. 

Like I said before, if the C's get thin come playoff time, you will see Doc making much more creative moves before putting POB out there. 

[Birdbrain]

Hopefully all the BBD is awful posters will be back to admit how wrong they were about POB as well...  Just my opinion but, I think some of you are setting yourself up again.  He has good offensive moves and he can block shots.  If you can't see that he has talent and is trying I don't know what else to say. All he needs to do is to continue to gain weight and keep working on his post defense.  In fact I'll predict at this time next year he'll be in bench rotation. Preferably replacing Powe. But what do I know I think TA provides good minutes off the bench.

That's fine, but there is a big difference between having talent and trying, and being ready to see regular minutes for a championship team. 

You may be right that he will be in the rotation by this time next year...but he absolutely does not deserve to be on the floor at this time this year.  And that is all that matters, because if someone comes along who does in fact deserve to be on the floor at this time this year, then I am afraid POB will be the odd man out, despite his "upside".

Fair enough although I do think it would be prudent to play him a couple minutes just in case they can't add another guy.  I mean he's not ready but, he might need to be ready. 

Trust me, they will play Sam Cassell at Center before POB sees any meaningful minutes.   

He has been an extra body to put in there for a couple minutes a game, since they are down 2 big guys, but I think it is absolutely clear that he is not going to be ready to contribute this year, so all giving him a couple consistent minutes would do is put the team at risk of giving away more regular season games. 

If they ever need him any more than they need him now, Doc will be looking at changing his gameplan and playing smallball.  The only reason he has played the last couple games is because it is in the extremely short term, and it is easier to throw him out there than to throw off the rotation too much. 

I'll pass on your interpretation.

[Birdbrain]

Giving credit where credit is due POB did a fabulous job of establishing position on that basket he made. He got the position, held off his defender and positioned his defender under the basket, and finished the turn and lay in. He had a great backdoor pass into Ray Allen that Ray missed the bunny on. He had a block. And I think a couple of rebounds.

But as Roy mentioned he made two quick fouls, though Leon pick up three in less time. The fouls being called were extremely one sided but his were rather egregious and were make ups for his being out of position.

He was lost on the defensive rotations. Go back and watch that. When a rotation was needed he just kind of sat in the paint and waited for a man to come near him and had his eyes following the ball the whole time. His positional defense was atrocious.

For all his hustle he was constantly the last man down the court in both directions. Either he is clueless on when to break, has zero ability to get out of the box quickly or is just plain slow as molasses. You would figure that a man buried on the bench as long as he has been would be flying up and down the court trying to impress.

His lateral movement and footwork is still just awful and he gets so caught up in watching the ball after it is shot that he is constantly getting pushed off the blocks.

He had a couple of decent minutes last night. I'm not saying he didn't. But the lack of anything resembling growth in his effort or knowledge or overall game just is non existent.

Your antipathy towards O'Bryant is well documented. Your most recent comments are not just misleading, they are false. I have watched POB's 5 minutes from yesterday's games several times.  He is hustling his ass off every time, on almost every transition the first big up the floor. He is working very well on the defensive rotations.  The first of his two fouls was ticky tacky at best.

Look, you don't have to like the guy, but don't make up things about him based on last night's performance that are completely untrue. If you taped it, I would suggest you re-watch it. He showed Great effort last night, and I hope is rewarded with more and more minutes as the season progresses.

Nick's account is 100 percent accurate.

Gotcha Coach I think I'll take my interpretation over both of yours.

[Chris]

Hopefully all the BBD is awful posters will be back to admit how wrong they were about POB as well...  Just my opinion but, I think some of you are setting yourself up again.  He has good offensive moves and he can block shots.  If you can't see that he has talent and is trying I don't know what else to say. All he needs to do is to continue to gain weight and keep working on his post defense.  In fact I'll predict at this time next year he'll be in bench rotation. Preferably replacing Powe. But what do I know I think TA provides good minutes off the bench.

That's fine, but there is a big difference between having talent and trying, and being ready to see regular minutes for a championship team. 

You may be right that he will be in the rotation by this time next year...but he absolutely does not deserve to be on the floor at this time this year.  And that is all that matters, because if someone comes along who does in fact deserve to be on the floor at this time this year, then I am afraid POB will be the odd man out, despite his "upside".

Fair enough although I do think it would be prudent to play him a couple minutes just in case they can't add another guy.  I mean he's not ready but, he might need to be ready. 

Trust me, they will play Sam Cassell at Center before POB sees any meaningful minutes.   

He has been an extra body to put in there for a couple minutes a game, since they are down 2 big guys, but I think it is absolutely clear that he is not going to be ready to contribute this year, so all giving him a couple consistent minutes would do is put the team at risk of giving away more regular season games. 

If they ever need him any more than they need him now, Doc will be looking at changing his gameplan and playing smallball.  The only reason he has played the last couple games is because it is in the extremely short term, and it is easier to throw him out there than to throw off the rotation too much. 

I'll pass on your interpretation.

Fair enough. 

[footey]

Well the Celtics coaching squad thinks he is worth a few minutes here and there...

Do they?  I'm not sure it's a choice.  With KG and Scal injured, POB is the de facto fourth big man.  If the team could avoid playing him, I expect that they would.

Exactly.  And I think if Scal and KG were going to be out for longer than just a couple of games, they would have gone a different route, and likely tried to play small ball.  But for such a short amount of time, Doc did not want to try to shake things up too much, so he threw him out there for long enough to get the other guys some rest, but not long enough for him to be too exposed. 

Like I said before, if the C's get thin come playoff time, you will see Doc making much more creative moves before putting POB out there. 

The last two games he has played, in meaningful minutes, his +/- is plus 7 and plus 1.  Seems like he needs to get "exposed" some more, not less. But I agree with you, Doc does not have the confidence in him right now to feel he will be a major role player come play-off time.

[Chris]

Well the Celtics coaching squad thinks he is worth a few minutes here and there...

Do they?  I'm not sure it's a choice.  With KG and Scal injured, POB is the de facto fourth big man.  If the team could avoid playing him, I expect that they would.

Exactly.  And I think if Scal and KG were going to be out for longer than just a couple of games, they would have gone a different route, and likely tried to play small ball.  But for such a short amount of time, Doc did not want to try to shake things up too much, so he threw him out there for long enough to get the other guys some rest, but not long enough for him to be too exposed. 

Like I said before, if the C's get thin come playoff time, you will see Doc making much more creative moves before putting POB out there. 

The last two games he has played, in meaningful minutes, his +/- is plus 7 and plus 1.  Seems like he needs to get "exposed" some more, not less. But I agree with you, Doc does not have the confidence in him right now to feel he will be a major role player come play-off time.

Oh come on.  Those numbers mean nothing.  Way too small of a sample size, even if those numbers had any validity or reliability in the first place (which I would argue they don't).  He looked completely lost out there. 

[Lucky17]

Can someone answer definitively for me exactly what POB's contract situation is?

Does he have more than one year left on his contract? For how much? Is there an option?

I've seen conflicting numbers out there between ESPN, Hoopshype, and RealGM. I am under the impression he's on the books for this year for $1.5 mil, and next for about $1.6 mil, both years guaranteed.

I ask because I think POB's worth to the team this season is pretty much going to be limited to his involvement in a trade. He might have the ability to become a decent NBA player someday, but it's not going to happen this season via some quantum leap.

[footey]

Well the Celtics coaching squad thinks he is worth a few minutes here and there...

Do they?  I'm not sure it's a choice.  With KG and Scal injured, POB is the de facto fourth big man.  If the team could avoid playing him, I expect that they would.

Exactly.  And I think if Scal and KG were going to be out for longer than just a couple of games, they would have gone a different route, and likely tried to play small ball.  But for such a short amount of time, Doc did not want to try to shake things up too much, so he threw him out there for long enough to get the other guys some rest, but not long enough for him to be too exposed. 

Like I said before, if the C's get thin come playoff time, you will see Doc making much more creative moves before putting POB out there. 

The last two games he has played, in meaningful minutes, his +/- is plus 7 and plus 1.  Seems like he needs to get "exposed" some more, not less. But I agree with you, Doc does not have the confidence in him right now to feel he will be a major role player come play-off time.

Oh come on.  Those numbers mean nothing.  Way too small of a sample size, even if those numbers had any validity or reliability in the first place (which I would argue they don't).  He looked completely lost out there. 

Jeez, I pay you a little compliment, and look where that lands me.  Not sure if you are a member of the "POB is a lazy SOB Club" (it's president is a guy named Bo, its VP is Nick) or merely a member of the "POB tries hard, but is completely lost club" (has many members). I disagree with clubs, although it is much harder to disprove an accusation of "he is lost" than an accusation of "he doesn't hustle, he is always the last one up the floor." Still waiting for someone to post video of POB's performance last game. He looked neither lost nor lazy. 

[Roy Hobbs]

Can someone answer definitively for me exactly what POB's contract situation is?

Does he have more than one year left on his contract? For how much? Is there an option?

I've seen conflicting numbers out there between ESPN, Hoopshype, and RealGM. I am under the impression he's on the books for this year for $1.5 mil, and next for about $1.6 mil, both years guaranteed.

I ask because I think POB's worth to the team this season is pretty much going to be limited to his involvement in a trade. He might have the ability to become a decent NBA player someday, but it's not going to happen this season via some quantum leap.

I think ShamSports is usually most reliable, and they have it as a minimum deal, with an option next year at a minimum salary, as well.  Link.

That also makes sense, in that the Celtics have $2.3 million of their MLE left.  That would account for the signings of House and Bill Walker, but not for POB on an MLE deal.  That means POB was either signed for the minimum, or with the LLE.  I'm guessing it's the minimum.

[Lucky17]

Can someone answer definitively for me exactly what POB's contract situation is?

Does he have more than one year left on his contract? For how much? Is there an option?

I've seen conflicting numbers out there between ESPN, Hoopshype, and RealGM. I am under the impression he's on the books for this year for $1.5 mil, and next for about $1.6 mil, both years guaranteed.

I ask because I think POB's worth to the team this season is pretty much going to be limited to his involvement in a trade. He might have the ability to become a decent NBA player someday, but it's not going to happen this season via some quantum leap.

I think ShamSports is usually most reliable, and they have it as a minimum deal, with an option next year at a minimum salary, as well.  Link.

That also makes sense, in that the Celtics have $2.3 million of their MLE left.  That would account for the signings of House and Bill Walker, but not for POB on an MLE deal.  That means POB was either signed for the minimum, or with the LLE.  I'm guessing it's the minimum.

Hmmm. ProSports database says it's a two year deal, for $3 mil total:

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=o%27bryant&Team=&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&BeginYear=&BeginMonth=&BeginDay=&EndYear=&EndMonth=&EndDay=&submit=Search

Just thinking out loud: Danny ought to call the Clippers, and offer POB and/or Cassell in a salary-relief kind of deal. Boston could work out something where they'd take back Brian Skinner and/or the rights to Jason Williams, saving LA some coin, and possibly kicking in some additional cash as well.

[Bankshot]

Can someone answer definitively for me exactly what POB's contract situation is?

Does he have more than one year left on his contract? For how much? Is there an option?

I've seen conflicting numbers out there between ESPN, Hoopshype, and RealGM. I am under the impression he's on the books for this year for $1.5 mil, and next for about $1.6 mil, both years guaranteed.

I ask because I think POB's worth to the team this season is pretty much going to be limited to his involvement in a trade. He might have the ability to become a decent NBA player someday, but it's not going to happen this season via some quantum leap.

I think ShamSports is usually most reliable, and they have it as a minimum deal, with an option next year at a minimum salary, as well.  Link.

That also makes sense, in that the Celtics have $2.3 million of their MLE left.  That would account for the signings of House and Bill Walker, but not for POB on an MLE deal.  That means POB was either signed for the minimum, or with the LLE.  I'm guessing it's the minimum.

Hmmm. ProSports database says it's a two year deal, for $3 mil total:

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=o%27bryant&Team=&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&BeginYear=&BeginMonth=&BeginDay=&EndYear=&EndMonth=&EndDay=&submit=Search

Just thinking out loud: Danny ought to call the Clippers, and offer POB and/or Cassell in a salary-relief kind of deal. Boston could work out something where they'd take back Brian Skinner and/or the rights to Jason Williams, saving LA some coin, and possibly kicking in some additional cash as well.

Danny is not trading POB, I don't think.  He is 7' and they will try to develop him before they get rid of him.