Certain bench players don't seem to go together very well.

[wdleehi]

Before any get on me about this, I am not trying to trash any of the bench players abilities (except POB who will not be mentioned again)



This about fit and enhancing of skills of players together.


Two different sets.

Set 1
House and Tony Allen.  Both are SGs.  One is small but a snipper.  One is athletic but has many mental lapses.  When they are on the floor together as a backcourt, they just don't play well together.  Sure, one might have a hot night here and there.  But almost never together.  The problem, neither are PGs.  Both struggle to run the offense.  Neither give the ball or get the ball in their sweet spots enough. 

Answer, Gabe Pruitt and Rondo.  One of those two should be out there whenever possible.  Both have shown the ability to relieve pressure off House and TA and allow them to play their game. 

As to who plays between House and TA, go by opponent and team need at that point.

Set 2

Powe and Davis.  Both are small PFs.  Both play relatively in the same area.  Both are cappable of throwing out a big game, but never together.  Usually when one of them have a big game, it is when they get extended time next to KG. 

Answer, Scali.  When Scali is out there with one of them, it creates a hybrid small ball.  Offensively, Scali's outside shooting is small ball like, but defensively, Scali can guard PFs straight up.  This pulls one of the other teams bigs out of the painted area leaving more space for Powe or Davis to work.

2nd answer till Scali returns, play them along side Perk or KG more.




Both sets have their issues that can be overcame at once.  But when both sets are on the floor together, watch out.  The 5th member on the floor (Pierce or Ray) also struggle.  (as seen last night)



I know this has all been said before, and will likely be said again. 

[Vermont Green]

I recognize that this is a small sample but in the last 10 games, when Pruitt has played 9 minutes or more, House has averaged about 16 pts, when Gabe has played less than 9 minutes, Eddie has averaged about 2 points.

I went to the trouble of figuring this out because I believe that we need Gabe on the floor with the second unit.  This is not due to what Gabe does as much it is what it allows others to do.  Eddie is a one-trick pony, with one really good trick, catch and shoot; but his trick only works if there is someone else with the ball.  When Gabe or Rondo are not on the floor, Eddie ends up with the ball dribbling around trying to run the offense and is essentially neutralized.  Using Ray or Tony Allen as the point gaurd doesn't work either because you still end up with at least one person playing out of position.

Gabe may not be as good an individual player (or as experienced which may be the bigger issue with Doc) as House or TA but he needs to be out there.  Depending on match-ups, House-Pruitt can work well together as House will cover the opposing 2nd string PG and Pruitt can hold his own against most 2nd SG.  If the match-up is bigger, maybe Tony needs to play opposite Gabe but please, let's not keep playing a backcourt of Tony and House.  If minutes become a problem, either House or Tony can play with the first unit to rest some one, just not together.

I really think Doc has done a great job coaching but I don't get this one.  Last night (against DET) was a prime example of why House and Tony can't be on the court together (or House and Ray for that matter, at least without Pruitt or Rondo on the court too).

[housecall]

All you said is true(imo),and before anyone yell at me,i like Doc,but those are a few of the things about his rotation process i hate.

[RAcker]

I agree...particularly about the combo of BBD and Leon.  Something has happened to Leon this year, or should I say that nothing has happened to Leon this year.  He seems to have added nothing new to his game and it is very disappointing.  BBD has added the mid-range jumper and has really stepped up the defensive rotations.  Together, they seem to be in each other's way.

I do like a combo of House and Pruitt, or Rondo and House, or even Rondo and Pruitt, but not House and TA.  TA is another who seems to have added nothing to his game this year.  This is extremely disappointing and this is why I think Danny will eventually (read within the calendar year) use TA in a trade to try and upgrade either the PG position or get a better backup big.  TA's ball handling is atrocious except when slashing from the wing and while his D has been good of late, it ain't good enough to make up for a lot of his shortcomings.

All that said, at least our bench plays with heart and really has passion for the game (with the exception of the aforementioned O'Bryant).  Danny seems to have an eye for not only talent with late picks, but he really recognizes the guys that play hungry and contribute no matter what their role may be.  

Doc seems to be seeing all of these same things from what he says.  Danny does as well as he and management have both indicated that this is not the final lineup with which we'll enter the post-season.  I expect that by mid-March we'll know who will and will not be on the court together during the playoffs.

[Vermont Green]

Wow, you just said almost exactly what I said in another post.

Check out the House Pruitt Stat post.....

By the way, I agree 100%, House and either Allen as a backcourt tandem is just wrong.  At least one player ends up playing out of position.

[illantari]

So much Truth has just been spoken here.  TP.  I've got nothing to add except: Free Gabe!  (Again!)

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

This original post is dead on. This was the reason for my outrage that all four were on the floor multiple times last night. There was no player on the floor who could create for any others. All four at times have been accused of having ballhog tendencies, and the results seen last night with all of them on the floor at once spoke for themselves. Terrible decision to have those two combos on the floor at once together, nevermind just the two and two on.

TP WL

[Roy Hobbs]

Co-sign with the gist of what wdleehi said.  I'd also add "Tony Allen + anybody".  I don't want TA on the floor, unless we're up or down by 30 points.  He can take a seat next to POB.

[wdleehi]

Co-sign with the gist of what wdleehi said.  I'd also add "Tony Allen + anybody".  I don't want TA on the floor, unless we're up or down by 30 points.  He can take a seat next to POB.

I am willing to give TA a little benefit of the doubt since he doesn't get to play with a PG often.

[Toine43]

I think just about everyone agrees on what the Celtics' problems are. But what about the solution? The solution for me has to be a trade of some sort, because it just makes too much sense. You trade either Powe or Baby, because you don't need both for the playoffs, and you're not going to re-sign both for next year. Might as well get something in return for a quality draft pick that you're going to lose for nothing after the season anyway. Also, trade Tony Allen, because he does not belong on the floor during the regular season, never mind the post season. Although the best case scenario would be to find a backup point guard elsewhere, I would still much rather enter the playoffs with Pruitt in the rotation than Allen. It doesn't even matter that Allen has the experience edge. Allen's biggest knock is that he still makes "rookie mistakes" as a 5-year vet. Pruitt has proven that at the very least he knows how to not mess things up. The bottom line is that between House, Allen, Baby, anbd Powe, only two players are needed on this team. I know that there aren't a lot of teams out there interested in the trade bait the Celtics have to offer, but why not get something (even if its just garbage and a 2nd round pick) in return for players who are or will soon be useless to the Celtics?

[xmuscularghandix]

its not that they aren't good together it's just that House can't handle the ball, and Leon couldn't score if his life depended on it.

House needs to be a straight 2, Leon should only play with KG so that we don't lose all of our offense down in the post, TA is fine as long as there is a realy PG also in the lineup.

[Toine43]

its not that they aren't good together it's just that House can't handle the ball, and Leon couldn't score if his life depended on it.

House needs to be a straight 2, Leon should only play with KG so that we don't lose all of our offense down in the post, TA is fine as long as there is a realy PG also in the lineup.

I don't agree with most of what you're saying here. Powe is a very effective lost post scorer, but happens to be in a horrible slump right now. And Tony Allen is a garbage basketball player, no matter who he's on the floor with.

[Bankshot]

I think just about everyone agrees on what the Celtics' problems are. But what about the solution? The solution for me has to be a trade of some sort, because it just makes too much sense. You trade either Powe or Baby, because you don't need both for the playoffs, and you're not going to re-sign both for next year. Might as well get something in return for a quality draft pick that you're going to lose for nothing after the season anyway. Also, trade Tony Allen, because he does not belong on the floor during the regular season, never mind the post season. Although the best case scenario would be to find a backup point guard elsewhere, I would still much rather enter the playoffs with Pruitt in the rotation than Allen. It doesn't even matter that Allen has the experience edge. Allen's biggest knock is that he still makes "rookie mistakes" as a 5-year vet. Pruitt has proven that at the very least he knows how to not mess things up. The bottom line is that between House, Allen, Baby, anbd Powe, only two players are needed on this team. I know that there aren't a lot of teams out there interested in the trade bait the Celtics have to offer, but why not get something (even if its just garbage and a 2nd round pick) in return for players who are or will soon be useless to the Celtics?

I also agree that a trade could be the solution. We need to fix the logjam at the 2 and at the 4. I'm sure I'll get flack like I usually do when I mention this, but I think Powe should be traded along with Tony to make room for BBD's continued development.  If we get a vet big, one of these guys will lose minutes and I think it will be Powe, because Baby's newfound versatility will allow him to play with any froncourt player, while Powe can only play effectively with KG since he can't spread the floor (and Doc isn't even trusting him to play with KG in crunchtime minutes -- BBD is getting the call in those situations).  Also, Tony and Powe both have low BBIQ compared to the rest of the team, which is why I think their games haven't developed like we thought they would.  BBD and Pruitt need to play more minutes for their development and I believe those two also will make the bench play better and more consistent.  Pruitt will eventually lose minutes to Marbury or Cassell come playoff time, but I'd like to see more of him now.

How about Powe, TA and Giddens for Joe Smith? or Powe, TA and Scal?  Not sure if either of these works money wise.

[Toine43]

I think just about everyone agrees on what the Celtics' problems are. But what about the solution? The solution for me has to be a trade of some sort, because it just makes too much sense. You trade either Powe or Baby, because you don't need both for the playoffs, and you're not going to re-sign both for next year. Might as well get something in return for a quality draft pick that you're going to lose for nothing after the season anyway. Also, trade Tony Allen, because he does not belong on the floor during the regular season, never mind the post season. Although the best case scenario would be to find a backup point guard elsewhere, I would still much rather enter the playoffs with Pruitt in the rotation than Allen. It doesn't even matter that Allen has the experience edge. Allen's biggest knock is that he still makes "rookie mistakes" as a 5-year vet. Pruitt has proven that at the very least he knows how to not mess things up. The bottom line is that between House, Allen, Baby, anbd Powe, only two players are needed on this team. I know that there aren't a lot of teams out there interested in the trade bait the Celtics have to offer, but why not get something (even if its just garbage and a 2nd round pick) in return for players who are or will soon be useless to the Celtics?

I also agree that a trade could be the solution. We need to fix the logjam at the 2 and at the 4. I'm sure I'll get flack like I usually do when I mention this, but I think Powe should be traded along with Tony to make room for BBD's continued development.  If we get a vet big, one of these guys will lose minutes and I think it will be Powe, because Baby's newfound versatility will allow him to play with any froncourt player, while Powe can only play effectively with KG since he can't spread the floor (and Doc isn't even trusting him to play with KG in meaningful minutes -- BBD is getting the call in those situations).  Also, Tony and Powe both have low BBIQ compared to the rest of the team, which is why I think their games haven't developed like we thought they would.  BBD and Pruitt need to play more minutes for their development and I believe those two also will make the bench play better and more consistent.  Pruitt will eventually lose minutes to Marbury or Cassell come playoff time, but I'd like to see more of him now.

How about Powe, TA and Giddens for Joe Smith? or Powe, TA and Scal?  Not sure if either of these works money wise.

In terms of the BBD, Powe debate, I disagree with you, but I respect and understand your opinion. I would not be that upset if the Cs chose BBD over Powe. On the other hand, I really don't have any remaining tolerance for TA, or for TA backers. He's garbage, and I want him off the team.

[Edgar]

Eddie + Gabe Pruitt = I hate this combination, because it hurts Gabe on the long run. I know Eddie has bees kind of good lately, other than last game but i cannot stand he just grabbing the ball and shooting, and playing as pg when hes clearly the sg...oh well..consider this venting...