Why wouldn't LeBron want to come to Boston?

[cordobes]

Just one issue that hasn't been covered: Cleveland will have plenty of room to sign a co-star to play next to LeBron in 2010. Amare, Bosh or whoever.

[ManUp]

Because he can't transcend the franchise. He wants to go somewhere where he can be bigger than the franchise and it's history, trust me. That won't happen in Boston.

Yup. He wants to be the soul of a franchise, basically like Jordan and the Bulls.

[ThreadCrasher]

Whay wouldn't he come to Boston?

Money.  Cleveland can offer him the most, and they're already a legit contender.  In terms of free agency, the Celtics aren't going to be able to clear enough cap room to give Lebron a max contract.

We answered this question in the FAQs stickied at the top of the forum.  Here's the excerpt:

13) Looking at the above chart, it looks like the Celtics only have around $49 million in salaries committed for 2010.  If the cap goes up to around $65 million, does that mean they can spend $16 million on free agents?  Could they then resign Ray Allen with their Bird rights?

No and no.  Surprising to many, free agents continue to count against a team's salary cap until they're either signed or renounced.  This is called a "cap hold".  Free agents essentially count against the cap at a figure greater than their previous salary.

The amount of these cap holds varies significantly; for actual percentages, see here.  For purposes of the Celtics, Ray Allen would have a cap hold in excess of $20 million.  While the team could renounce Ray, if they did so they would only be able to pay him the minimum salary.

Of even more significance is the cap hold of Rajon Rondo.  As a restricted free agent, he carries a cap hold of 300% of his previous salary, or approximately $6.3 million.  Thus, under the above scenario, the Celtics actual cap room would be approximately $10 million, rather than the $16 million anticipated.  Further, there would be additional salary slots or cap holds for any other players on the roster.  For instance, teams must have 12 players on their roster; for every player less than 12, the team is charged a "cap charge" equal to the rookie minimum salary ($457,588 in 2010).  That's equal to $3,660,704.  That means our cap space is reduced to approximately $6.4 million, or an amount roughly equal to the MLE.  That's assuming we renounce *all* of our free agents.  Long story short, unless we're starting over with ten or more new players, we don't have significant cap room in 2010-11, even if we renounce Ray.

Even worse than that, its looking more and more like a $65 million cap number was overly generous; it's likely to be below that, meaning that essentially the Celtics will be stuck using the MLE to add free agents.

The only way we could have significant cap room in 2010 is if Pierce opted out, and the team decided to renounce both Pierce and Ray.  Under that situation, we could have enough room to sign Lebron.  However, our roster would be KG, Perk, Rondo, Giddens, Walker, and a bunch of minimum salary players.  I'm not sure that that scenario would be very appealing for Lebron.

(And no, I don't see Pierce and/or Ray agreeing to take minimum salary deals just to facilitate Lebron joining the team.)

All good stuff...although to play devil's advocate.

1.  For a player like Lebron, Boston can create cap space if they need to.  Pierce could opt out and resign a team friendly deal like KG did, saving the team appr. $6-8 million (which I expect anyway).  If the Celtics had the ability to sign LeBron, Rondo and/Perkins would be moved in a heart beat to fill out a roster boasting Lebron, Pierce and KG.  All long shots, but possible.

2.  LeBron is going to be less concerned about his actual contract value and more concerned about being able to win multiple championships.  If he wants to transcend the sport and become a global icon billionaire, ala Tiger Woods, he needs to win.  Period.  That is his main focus and he knows it.  That said, his legacy is best served winning in Cleveland...but if he has any questions about his ability to do so he will move.

That said, it is not going to happen! 

I think that would insulting to Paul Pierce.  Pierce has already been such a great team player over the past year, and has worked so hard, but now were gonna ask him to opt, take a HUGE paycut, and on top of that for a player that is almost his rival to replace him.  I mean seriously why dont we just as him to leave while were at it.  Sorry Paul we found someone better, but you can hang around if you want, but itll cost you.

Im sorry but Paul is my favorite player, Ive watched him come full circle his entire career.  Lebron may be the best on the planet, but Ill always take Paul first

....and Lebron wont become a Global Icon on the Celtics.  Youre right about winning titles to do it, but Tiger Woods doesnt have teammates, its him only him.  Lebron would be sharing the spotlight with at least two other players on this team.  People would start asking if he would have ever won a title if he didnt leave Cleveland and join other stars in Boston.  Doesnt work that way for guys with goals like Lebron

....as for the OP's comments.  Jordan won a title without and legit center, and Im sure Lebron thinks he'll be much better than Jordan, if he doesnt already.

Couple of things...

First, PP will take a cut on his next contract.  KG did it.  PP will do it.  The odds that it has anything to do with LJ are slim to none.  But mark my words he will do it.  And it won't be insulting.  Many greats have taken cuts (or deferred money) to help their franchise win. Paul will do it and be hailed as a true Celtic in the mean time.

As far as Lebron not becoming an icon on the Celtics...give me a break.  KG became a 'real Celtic' in 1 season.  There is debate on whether his jersey is retireable now...

Great franchises need superstars and superstars need great franchises.

Finally, as far as Lebron worrying about tagging onto KG and PP to get ring I will quote (or attempt to) Chris Rock.  Some people say you shouldn't hire Johnnie Cochran as an attorney because it makes you look guilty.  I'd rather look guilty at the mall, than innocent in jail. 

[greg683x]

Whay wouldn't he come to Boston?

Money.  Cleveland can offer him the most, and they're already a legit contender.  In terms of free agency, the Celtics aren't going to be able to clear enough cap room to give Lebron a max contract.

We answered this question in the FAQs stickied at the top of the forum.  Here's the excerpt:

13) Looking at the above chart, it looks like the Celtics only have around $49 million in salaries committed for 2010.  If the cap goes up to around $65 million, does that mean they can spend $16 million on free agents?  Could they then resign Ray Allen with their Bird rights?

No and no.  Surprising to many, free agents continue to count against a team's salary cap until they're either signed or renounced.  This is called a "cap hold".  Free agents essentially count against the cap at a figure greater than their previous salary.

The amount of these cap holds varies significantly; for actual percentages, see here.  For purposes of the Celtics, Ray Allen would have a cap hold in excess of $20 million.  While the team could renounce Ray, if they did so they would only be able to pay him the minimum salary.

Of even more significance is the cap hold of Rajon Rondo.  As a restricted free agent, he carries a cap hold of 300% of his previous salary, or approximately $6.3 million.  Thus, under the above scenario, the Celtics actual cap room would be approximately $10 million, rather than the $16 million anticipated.  Further, there would be additional salary slots or cap holds for any other players on the roster.  For instance, teams must have 12 players on their roster; for every player less than 12, the team is charged a "cap charge" equal to the rookie minimum salary ($457,588 in 2010).  That's equal to $3,660,704.  That means our cap space is reduced to approximately $6.4 million, or an amount roughly equal to the MLE.  That's assuming we renounce *all* of our free agents.  Long story short, unless we're starting over with ten or more new players, we don't have significant cap room in 2010-11, even if we renounce Ray.

Even worse than that, its looking more and more like a $65 million cap number was overly generous; it's likely to be below that, meaning that essentially the Celtics will be stuck using the MLE to add free agents.

The only way we could have significant cap room in 2010 is if Pierce opted out, and the team decided to renounce both Pierce and Ray.  Under that situation, we could have enough room to sign Lebron.  However, our roster would be KG, Perk, Rondo, Giddens, Walker, and a bunch of minimum salary players.  I'm not sure that that scenario would be very appealing for Lebron.

(And no, I don't see Pierce and/or Ray agreeing to take minimum salary deals just to facilitate Lebron joining the team.)

All good stuff...although to play devil's advocate.

1.  For a player like Lebron, Boston can create cap space if they need to.  Pierce could opt out and resign a team friendly deal like KG did, saving the team appr. $6-8 million (which I expect anyway).  If the Celtics had the ability to sign LeBron, Rondo and/Perkins would be moved in a heart beat to fill out a roster boasting Lebron, Pierce and KG.  All long shots, but possible.

2.  LeBron is going to be less concerned about his actual contract value and more concerned about being able to win multiple championships.  If he wants to transcend the sport and become a global icon billionaire, ala Tiger Woods, he needs to win.  Period.  That is his main focus and he knows it.  That said, his legacy is best served winning in Cleveland...but if he has any questions about his ability to do so he will move.

That said, it is not going to happen! 

I think that would insulting to Paul Pierce.  Pierce has already been such a great team player over the past year, and has worked so hard, but now were gonna ask him to opt, take a HUGE paycut, and on top of that for a player that is almost his rival to replace him.  I mean seriously why dont we just as him to leave while were at it.  Sorry Paul we found someone better, but you can hang around if you want, but itll cost you.

Im sorry but Paul is my favorite player, Ive watched him come full circle his entire career.  Lebron may be the best on the planet, but Ill always take Paul first

....and Lebron wont become a Global Icon on the Celtics.  Youre right about winning titles to do it, but Tiger Woods doesnt have teammates, its him only him.  Lebron would be sharing the spotlight with at least two other players on this team.  People would start asking if he would have ever won a title if he didnt leave Cleveland and join other stars in Boston.  Doesnt work that way for guys with goals like Lebron

....as for the OP's comments.  Jordan won a title without and legit center, and Im sure Lebron thinks he'll be much better than Jordan, if he doesnt already.

Couple of things...

First, PP will take a cut on his next contract.  KG did it.  PP will do it.  The odds that it has anything to do with LJ are slim to none.  But mark my words he will do it.  And it won't be insulting.  Many greats have taken cuts (or deferred money) to help their franchise win. Paul will do it and be hailed as a true Celtic in the mean time.

As far as Lebron not becoming an icon on the Celtics...give me a break.  KG became a 'real Celtic' in 1 season.  There is debate on whether his jersey is retireable now...

Great franchises need superstars and superstars need great franchises.

Finally, as far as Lebron worrying about tagging onto KG and PP to get ring I will quote (or attempt to) Chris Rock.  Some people say you shouldn't hire Johnnie Cochran as an attorney because it makes you look guilty.  I'd rather look guilty at the mall, than innocent in jail. 

Ok I probably overreacted to the Pierce thing.

As far as Lebron being an icon on the celtics.  I never argued he wouldnt get his number retired if he came here, and yes Im sure he would make himself a HUGE chapter in celtics history.  My arguement is that Lebron probably doesnt want to be a chapter, he wants to be the whole book, like he could be in Cleveland, or even New Jersey.  Jordan is the whole book in Chicago.  Im not saying Lebron would refuse to go to a team like the Celtics b/c of this but I think its in the back of his mind.

As far as the Chris Rock thing goes, yes I did say he wouldnt want people to say he needed KG and Pierce to win a title, but you act like I said he wouldnt be able to win a title if he didnt go to Boston.  Hopping on the Celtics, taking less money, to play with KG and Pierce to win a title is something a player in his 30's would do.  Lebrons just entering his mid 20's, hes still looking to write the book his own way.  My point was that he would prefer to go to a team where he would win a title as the centerpiece of the team, not a member of a big three, or four.

[jdub1660]

Seriously. I know he wants his money, but deep inside he craves the rings more. PLUS, as he becomes more of a legend(by winning rings) then the money in endorsements becomes endless. Who needs 25 mil a year when you can make that plus some with endorsements with Nike, Sprite...add in others to come like Allstate, Taco Bell, and whatever else comes along.

As for Pierce taking a pay cut...I think he would knowing that being a Celtic is about winning championshipS(plural) I know KG took a pay cut, but I wish he took more so we wouldn't be so tied down with his salary along w/ PP and Ray. Ray is also a more mature player and I could easily seeing him agree to MLE or less just to satisfy his craving for rings.

Along w/ LeBron, I could see the Diesel coming to Boston as well. He too has dreams of adding rings, along w/ putting his name further up the list of All-Time-Scorers.

Last thing. I am putting out my prediction that AI will end up in Boston next year for the MLE...or less

[wdleehi]

Seriously. I know he wants his money, but deep inside he craves the rings more. PLUS, as he becomes more of a legend(by winning rings) then the money in endorsements becomes endless. Who needs 25 mil a year when you can make that plus some with endorsements with Nike, Sprite...add in others to come like Allstate, Taco Bell, and whatever else comes along.

As for Pierce taking a pay cut...I think he would knowing that being a Celtic is about winning championshipS(plural) I know KG took a pay cut, but I wish he took more so we wouldn't be so tied down with his salary along w/ PP and Ray. Ray is also a more mature player and I could easily seeing him agree to MLE or less just to satisfy his craving for rings.

Along w/ LeBron, I could see the Diesel coming to Boston as well. He too has dreams of adding rings, along w/ putting his name further up the list of All-Time-Scorers.

Last thing. I am putting out my prediction that AI will end up in Boston next year for the MLE...or less

But he is young enough to believe that no matter where he goes, he will win a title.

That would be a sad day for the Celtics.  Notice how he hasn't helped the Pistons. 

[illantari]

Last thing. I am putting out my prediction that AI will end up in Boston next year for the MLE...or less

But then the question is who would he demand to start over, Ray or Rondo?

Honestly, AI's personality just doesn't seem to be a Celtic personality.  He doesn't do so well in 'team' oriented teams (like the Pistons, for example).

LeBron as a Celtic also doesn't quite seem to fit.  Wasn't he the one that wanted to be a billionaire or something as his life goal?  That doesn't really scream Celtic pride to me.  'Skillz' wise, sure, maybe that'd make us unstoppable (maybe it would ruin our team chemistry, who really knows?), but I just can't seem to picture it happening.

[Moranis]

Cleveland is still the most likely destination and why wouldn't it be?  They can offer him the most money and they have so much cap room, they can offer at least one other max deal.  If you were Bosh or Wade, don't you think playing with LBJ in Cleveland sounds like a team that will be in the championship hunt for the next decade ala San An with TD. 

That is of course assuming Cleveland doesn't trade Wally for VC and Big Ben for Brand this year, which likely gives Cleveland a title this year and next.  Then perhaps LBJ may decide he wants a change.

[Fafnir]

Cleveland is still the most likely destination and why wouldn't it be?  They can offer him the most money and they have so much cap room, they can offer at least one other max deal.  If you were Bosh or Wade, don't you think playing with LBJ in Cleveland sounds like a team that will be in the championship hunt for the next decade ala San An with TD. 

That is of course assuming Cleveland doesn't trade Wally for VC and Big Ben for Brand this year, which likely gives Cleveland a title this year and next.  Then perhaps LBJ may decide he wants a change.

I'm still not sure anyone is going to move. You still have to take less money to go play somewhere else. Most stars in the end make the decision based on the dollars.

[crownsy]

$$$$

Other teams are going to be able to offer more.

yep, he's either taking slightly less for the move (NJ or NYK) or staying put for more $$

[nickagneta]

I'm trying to be kind here but the idea of LeBron coming to Boston is just silly. First, the man craves personal attention, money, huge marketing venues, and a place to try to win. In that order.

In Boston he would be one amond a few on a team, so much for the personal attention.

Boston doesn't have anywhere near a max contract to offer him, so much for the money.

Boston, while a big market, isn't nearly the mecca New York is but, no matter where he goes, so goes his endorsement contracts so Boston would be okay. Lebron would never be caught dead considering OKC, Portland, Memphis, Denver, Sacramento, New Orleans, Charlotte, Minnesota, etc, etc.

Boston would be a place to win but not in the manner that would fit LeBron's desire. I'm convinced LeBron wants to win his titles the MJ way or Shaq way where he has a lesser sidekick that helps him and then a bunch of okay role models so that he can maximize his three greatest desires; personal attention, money, and marketing himself. Boston, with a KG, Rondo, Pierce and others who had already won and play within a sacrificing oneself total team concept, does not fill the bill for how he would want to win.

[ScoobyDoo]

I think if LeBron was willing to come to Boston that we could find the way to create the space and I don't think we'd have to move Rondo and Perk to do it. As Threadcrasher said, LeBron needs to win period and and win multiple times to create the Legacy he wants so I think he'll be most worreid about where the best chance to do that is rather than the maximum value of his next contract ( he'll make all that up with endorsements anyway, especially if he's winning "more".)

I also beleive that Ray, Paul and KG will all eventually take paycuts to help this team stay on top and it will not be seen as and insult at all. Just the oppostie. They've all had two max contracts, all are very concerned about creating their own legacy and their legacy as a trio. What could be better than bringing in new alpha dogs to do the heavy lifting while you still get nice change in the waning years of your career while remaining crucial pieces to additional Celtics championships? it's a perfect scenario. None of these guys have any issue with letting the others shine, KG refers to Pierce as superman and is glad he can. These three watn to win, period. They've all carried the load for over a decade...by themselves. They'll gladly accept some new dogs on the block.

   

[ScoobyDoo]

Also, I disagree that Lebron can't transcend the franchise. As Bdm860 said, when you think of the Celtics teams, you think Russell, Cousy and you think Cownes/Havlicek, Jo Jo and you think Laryy, Kevin and the Chief...these guys are all part of the franshise's history but they're the ones that created the legend and as bdm860 put it so correctly, they become the next torch bearer, part of an ongoing legacy. Many great players moved to one of these elite franchises to create their legacy, to win. These players need these elite franshises just as much as the franchises need them.

I definately think that Lebron, just like Larry and Russell, would transcend the franchise. He would immediately become, along with Pierce, KG, Ray, Rondo and Perk for that matter, the faces of the franchise. But LeBron, being younger would be the alpha male in front and you can bet PP, KG & Ray would all be "very" happy to stand just slightly behind LeBron in the team promo pictures with massive smiles on their faces.

And if people think LeBron wouldn't come because he wouldn't get enough peronal attention, I'd argue that a LeBron, KG, PP and Ray Allen Celtics team would be the closest thing we've seen since the Beatles as far as media attention goes and LeBron would be Paul and John wrapped in one with everyone else happily playing their session roles. Not because Lebron is that much greater than these guys but because it would be his time...   

[ScoobyDoo]

Finally, the cream on the top of all this most likely improbability ( though it's fun from a fantasy basketball perspective) is threefold for LeBron:

1. With the Lakers looking strong for the forseeable future, LeBron would be thrust directly into the half century old Lakers/Celtics rivalry. It began with Russle and West, continued with larry and Magic and has once again been reincarnated with Kobe and LeBron, KG and Gasol, Perkins and Bynum, etc...the battle...goes on. It's almost like a wet dream for the NBA.
So LeBron is thrown onto the biggest stage, into a picture perfect and historic rivalry, primed for championships.

2. He wins 2-3 with KG, Pierce and Ray, doing most of the heavy lifting which would be perfect for his head. KG, Pierce and Ray can extend their careers by not playing so many minutes...

3. As KG, PP and Ray wind down....LeBron is only around 28-29 and he still has a young center and point guard with a bunch of veteran role palyers. Just add water ( one other stud, and you'r rolling again.

Of course, as someone mentioned, Chicago won with no legit centers. Although Jackson always had two things around Jordan up front. Tri-headed center rotation and all legit decent centers ( either Cartwright or Luc Longley and a couple good back ups AND all star PF's in either Grant or Rodman, which allows you to have an average center...)

As someone else mentioned to and I was wondering when someone would pop this hole in my dream here...Cavs will be able to sign a big time player themselves in 2010...

Dream was nice while it lasted...

Most likely scenario is he stay in Cleveland and they add more around him...   

[crownsy]

Finally, the cream on the top of all this most likely improbability ( though it's fun from a fantasy basketball perspective) is threefold for LeBron:

1. With the Lakers looking strong for the forseeable future, LeBron would be thrust directly into the half century old Lakers/Celtics rivalry. It began with Russle and West, continued with larry and Magic and has once again been reincarnated with Kobe and LeBron, KG and Gasol, Perkins and Bynum, etc...the battle...goes on. It's almost like a wet dream for the NBA.
So LeBron is thrown onto the biggest stage, into a picture perfect and historic rivalry, primed for championships.

2. He wins 2-3 with KG, Pierce and Ray, doing most of the heavy lifting which would be perfect for his head. KG, Pierce and Ray can extend their careers by not playing so many minutes...

3. As KG, PP and Ray wind down....LeBron is only around 28-29 and he still has a young center and point guard with a bunch of veteran role palyers. Just add water ( one other stud, and you'r rolling again.

Of course, as someone mentioned, Chicago won with no legit centers. Although Jackson always had two things around Jordan up front. Tri-headed center rotation and all legit decent centers ( either Cartwright or Luc Longley and a couple good back ups AND all star PF's in either Grant or Rodman, which allows you to have an average center...)

As someone else mentioned to and I was wondering when someone would pop this hole in my dream here...Cavs will be able to sign a big time player themselves in 2010...

Dream was nice while it lasted...

Most likely scenario is he stay in Cleveland and they add more around him...   

Its nice to dream man, but i don't think we could even get under enough to make him a competitive offer without some major collusion on paul and ray's part, since ray and paul won't be signing super cheap deals unless they know lebron is a lock. you would have to convice ray to come back cheap, then convince paul to turn down one more max year to sign real, real cheap. You still have rondo to extend that summer, who won't be cheap, so your talking massive pay cuts, one of which (paul's) will have to come after a declined player option.

I guess stranger things have happened (like us going from a horrable team to a championship caliber roster in under a month), but i just don't think it will happen.