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Quote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 10:10:01 PMQuote from: greg683x on January 22, 2009, 10:05:37 PMQuote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:49:59 PMQuote from: greg683x on January 22, 2009, 09:32:12 PMQuote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:29:32 PMQuote from: greg683x on January 22, 2009, 09:22:55 PMQuote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:16:38 PMGary Payton is a moron, Kenny just made a good point when talking about performing under pressure vs. no pressure, comparing it to shooting a bow and arrow on a table and on someones head from the same distance. in response Gary says, "but you don't know how to shoot a bow and arrow so it don't matter!". i thought it was kinda funny, but yeah he definetly did interupt him and completely ruin the point.Both CWebb and Kenny made great points.IMO I think the All-Star is for individual performances, so the teams record shouldnt matter. If we wanna talk about great players being great leaders and driving their team to win on both ends of the floor, then we should be talking about the MVP award not the all star game.the other night when we were blowing out the nets i beleive brook lopez put up 20+ points, is that an impressive performance even though he did it against reserves and there was nothing to lose from him underperforming? thats what happens when you play on a bad team, you put up big numbers against reserves when no matter how many you score the game can't be won. I see what youre saying but Brook Lopez wont put up 20 points every night so I think thats a bad example.Do you think Al Jefferson would deserve to be an all star? I certainly would.i was basing it on that one night, i'm not saying he could be considered an all-star. but from the perspective of individual performance, you could say he had a good one, i'd say it wasn't anything.and yes Al Jefferson is an all-star, the wolves may not have the best record or winning their division, but they are playing in some close games and big Al is a major part of thatWell thats my point. Al Jefferson is a great player on the bad team, which is what the arguement was about. Not one night during garbage minutes. I know you are smart enough to know that those 20 points dont mean anything about Brook Lopez's night, and so am i, but to the casual fan, YES they will say he had a good game, and trust me dude, more casual fans participate in all star voting than fans like you and me, and the others on this board.But Brook Lopez in garbage minutes I dont feel applies to this because hes not a 'great player on a bad team' when not playing in garbage minutes Lopez wont put up those numbers, Al Jefferson will put up those numbers in meaningful minutes, against quality starters. So why shouldnt players like him apply?Al Jefferson is a All Star caliber player on a BAD team, its not his fault that he is on a rebuilding team. Seriously, put Amare Stoudamire on the Wolves and Jefferson on the Suns, do you think Al's numbers would drop at all, or even enough to take him out of all star consideration? Do you think Paul Pierce was a deserving All Star player when Danny Ainge surrounded him with youngsters years ago?Now I know not every case is the same as Al, but I dont think he should have points taken away from him just because hes on a bad team, there has got to be a line somewhere. Not making the playoffs is punishment enough.but the problem is that there are players who'e numbers are solely based on them dominating in garbage time. i'm just saying that if your gonna be an all-star your stats should come in meaningful minutes. a player averaging 27 on a losing team that gets blown out by good teamsa player averaging 19 with a top 5 record who's games are either blowout wins or close gamesthe 19 deserves to be the all-star, but thats the problem. Well these would be more garbage games, than garbage minutes. Garbage minutes IMO is scrubs playing against scrubbs.Starters in the NBA dont play garbage minutes because they play against other starters, it may be a garbage game for one guy, but to the celtics blowing them out, it is not a garbage game, and this cetain player is still putting up 27 points on a great defensive team....a player like Corey Maggette is a great example of what youre talking about, and I agree he shouldnt be an all star, what Im saying is it should be a case by case basis, not just players lumped together in a certain category.there is a gray area, which is why Paul and Ray are on the team this year. All I'm saying is that players shouldnt be dismissed b/c theyre on a bad team.good discussion and TP for the good points
Quote from: greg683x on January 22, 2009, 10:05:37 PMQuote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:49:59 PMQuote from: greg683x on January 22, 2009, 09:32:12 PMQuote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:29:32 PMQuote from: greg683x on January 22, 2009, 09:22:55 PMQuote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:16:38 PMGary Payton is a moron, Kenny just made a good point when talking about performing under pressure vs. no pressure, comparing it to shooting a bow and arrow on a table and on someones head from the same distance. in response Gary says, "but you don't know how to shoot a bow and arrow so it don't matter!". i thought it was kinda funny, but yeah he definetly did interupt him and completely ruin the point.Both CWebb and Kenny made great points.IMO I think the All-Star is for individual performances, so the teams record shouldnt matter. If we wanna talk about great players being great leaders and driving their team to win on both ends of the floor, then we should be talking about the MVP award not the all star game.the other night when we were blowing out the nets i beleive brook lopez put up 20+ points, is that an impressive performance even though he did it against reserves and there was nothing to lose from him underperforming? thats what happens when you play on a bad team, you put up big numbers against reserves when no matter how many you score the game can't be won. I see what youre saying but Brook Lopez wont put up 20 points every night so I think thats a bad example.Do you think Al Jefferson would deserve to be an all star? I certainly would.i was basing it on that one night, i'm not saying he could be considered an all-star. but from the perspective of individual performance, you could say he had a good one, i'd say it wasn't anything.and yes Al Jefferson is an all-star, the wolves may not have the best record or winning their division, but they are playing in some close games and big Al is a major part of thatWell thats my point. Al Jefferson is a great player on the bad team, which is what the arguement was about. Not one night during garbage minutes. I know you are smart enough to know that those 20 points dont mean anything about Brook Lopez's night, and so am i, but to the casual fan, YES they will say he had a good game, and trust me dude, more casual fans participate in all star voting than fans like you and me, and the others on this board.But Brook Lopez in garbage minutes I dont feel applies to this because hes not a 'great player on a bad team' when not playing in garbage minutes Lopez wont put up those numbers, Al Jefferson will put up those numbers in meaningful minutes, against quality starters. So why shouldnt players like him apply?Al Jefferson is a All Star caliber player on a BAD team, its not his fault that he is on a rebuilding team. Seriously, put Amare Stoudamire on the Wolves and Jefferson on the Suns, do you think Al's numbers would drop at all, or even enough to take him out of all star consideration? Do you think Paul Pierce was a deserving All Star player when Danny Ainge surrounded him with youngsters years ago?Now I know not every case is the same as Al, but I dont think he should have points taken away from him just because hes on a bad team, there has got to be a line somewhere. Not making the playoffs is punishment enough.but the problem is that there are players who'e numbers are solely based on them dominating in garbage time. i'm just saying that if your gonna be an all-star your stats should come in meaningful minutes. a player averaging 27 on a losing team that gets blown out by good teamsa player averaging 19 with a top 5 record who's games are either blowout wins or close gamesthe 19 deserves to be the all-star, but thats the problem.
Quote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:49:59 PMQuote from: greg683x on January 22, 2009, 09:32:12 PMQuote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:29:32 PMQuote from: greg683x on January 22, 2009, 09:22:55 PMQuote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:16:38 PMGary Payton is a moron, Kenny just made a good point when talking about performing under pressure vs. no pressure, comparing it to shooting a bow and arrow on a table and on someones head from the same distance. in response Gary says, "but you don't know how to shoot a bow and arrow so it don't matter!". i thought it was kinda funny, but yeah he definetly did interupt him and completely ruin the point.Both CWebb and Kenny made great points.IMO I think the All-Star is for individual performances, so the teams record shouldnt matter. If we wanna talk about great players being great leaders and driving their team to win on both ends of the floor, then we should be talking about the MVP award not the all star game.the other night when we were blowing out the nets i beleive brook lopez put up 20+ points, is that an impressive performance even though he did it against reserves and there was nothing to lose from him underperforming? thats what happens when you play on a bad team, you put up big numbers against reserves when no matter how many you score the game can't be won. I see what youre saying but Brook Lopez wont put up 20 points every night so I think thats a bad example.Do you think Al Jefferson would deserve to be an all star? I certainly would.i was basing it on that one night, i'm not saying he could be considered an all-star. but from the perspective of individual performance, you could say he had a good one, i'd say it wasn't anything.and yes Al Jefferson is an all-star, the wolves may not have the best record or winning their division, but they are playing in some close games and big Al is a major part of thatWell thats my point. Al Jefferson is a great player on the bad team, which is what the arguement was about. Not one night during garbage minutes. I know you are smart enough to know that those 20 points dont mean anything about Brook Lopez's night, and so am i, but to the casual fan, YES they will say he had a good game, and trust me dude, more casual fans participate in all star voting than fans like you and me, and the others on this board.But Brook Lopez in garbage minutes I dont feel applies to this because hes not a 'great player on a bad team' when not playing in garbage minutes Lopez wont put up those numbers, Al Jefferson will put up those numbers in meaningful minutes, against quality starters. So why shouldnt players like him apply?Al Jefferson is a All Star caliber player on a BAD team, its not his fault that he is on a rebuilding team. Seriously, put Amare Stoudamire on the Wolves and Jefferson on the Suns, do you think Al's numbers would drop at all, or even enough to take him out of all star consideration? Do you think Paul Pierce was a deserving All Star player when Danny Ainge surrounded him with youngsters years ago?Now I know not every case is the same as Al, but I dont think he should have points taken away from him just because hes on a bad team, there has got to be a line somewhere. Not making the playoffs is punishment enough.
Quote from: greg683x on January 22, 2009, 09:32:12 PMQuote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:29:32 PMQuote from: greg683x on January 22, 2009, 09:22:55 PMQuote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:16:38 PMGary Payton is a moron, Kenny just made a good point when talking about performing under pressure vs. no pressure, comparing it to shooting a bow and arrow on a table and on someones head from the same distance. in response Gary says, "but you don't know how to shoot a bow and arrow so it don't matter!". i thought it was kinda funny, but yeah he definetly did interupt him and completely ruin the point.Both CWebb and Kenny made great points.IMO I think the All-Star is for individual performances, so the teams record shouldnt matter. If we wanna talk about great players being great leaders and driving their team to win on both ends of the floor, then we should be talking about the MVP award not the all star game.the other night when we were blowing out the nets i beleive brook lopez put up 20+ points, is that an impressive performance even though he did it against reserves and there was nothing to lose from him underperforming? thats what happens when you play on a bad team, you put up big numbers against reserves when no matter how many you score the game can't be won. I see what youre saying but Brook Lopez wont put up 20 points every night so I think thats a bad example.Do you think Al Jefferson would deserve to be an all star? I certainly would.i was basing it on that one night, i'm not saying he could be considered an all-star. but from the perspective of individual performance, you could say he had a good one, i'd say it wasn't anything.and yes Al Jefferson is an all-star, the wolves may not have the best record or winning their division, but they are playing in some close games and big Al is a major part of that
Quote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:29:32 PMQuote from: greg683x on January 22, 2009, 09:22:55 PMQuote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:16:38 PMGary Payton is a moron, Kenny just made a good point when talking about performing under pressure vs. no pressure, comparing it to shooting a bow and arrow on a table and on someones head from the same distance. in response Gary says, "but you don't know how to shoot a bow and arrow so it don't matter!". i thought it was kinda funny, but yeah he definetly did interupt him and completely ruin the point.Both CWebb and Kenny made great points.IMO I think the All-Star is for individual performances, so the teams record shouldnt matter. If we wanna talk about great players being great leaders and driving their team to win on both ends of the floor, then we should be talking about the MVP award not the all star game.the other night when we were blowing out the nets i beleive brook lopez put up 20+ points, is that an impressive performance even though he did it against reserves and there was nothing to lose from him underperforming? thats what happens when you play on a bad team, you put up big numbers against reserves when no matter how many you score the game can't be won. I see what youre saying but Brook Lopez wont put up 20 points every night so I think thats a bad example.Do you think Al Jefferson would deserve to be an all star? I certainly would.
Quote from: greg683x on January 22, 2009, 09:22:55 PMQuote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:16:38 PMGary Payton is a moron, Kenny just made a good point when talking about performing under pressure vs. no pressure, comparing it to shooting a bow and arrow on a table and on someones head from the same distance. in response Gary says, "but you don't know how to shoot a bow and arrow so it don't matter!". i thought it was kinda funny, but yeah he definetly did interupt him and completely ruin the point.Both CWebb and Kenny made great points.IMO I think the All-Star is for individual performances, so the teams record shouldnt matter. If we wanna talk about great players being great leaders and driving their team to win on both ends of the floor, then we should be talking about the MVP award not the all star game.the other night when we were blowing out the nets i beleive brook lopez put up 20+ points, is that an impressive performance even though he did it against reserves and there was nothing to lose from him underperforming? thats what happens when you play on a bad team, you put up big numbers against reserves when no matter how many you score the game can't be won.
Quote from: xmuscularghandix on January 22, 2009, 09:16:38 PMGary Payton is a moron, Kenny just made a good point when talking about performing under pressure vs. no pressure, comparing it to shooting a bow and arrow on a table and on someones head from the same distance. in response Gary says, "but you don't know how to shoot a bow and arrow so it don't matter!". i thought it was kinda funny, but yeah he definetly did interupt him and completely ruin the point.Both CWebb and Kenny made great points.IMO I think the All-Star is for individual performances, so the teams record shouldnt matter. If we wanna talk about great players being great leaders and driving their team to win on both ends of the floor, then we should be talking about the MVP award not the all star game.
Gary Payton is a moron, Kenny just made a good point when talking about performing under pressure vs. no pressure, comparing it to shooting a bow and arrow on a table and on someones head from the same distance. in response Gary says, "but you don't know how to shoot a bow and arrow so it don't matter!".
Quote from: greg683x on January 22, 2009, 09:45:04 PMThe most deserving award that cant be won with padded stats or popularity is the MVP award.I'd offer Steve Nash as two-time MVP as argument against that. Stats padded by playing in the Phoenix offense and popularity contributing heavily to his wins. Look at other multiple MVP award winners. He is nowhere in that category.
The most deserving award that cant be won with padded stats or popularity is the MVP award.
Topic: Celtics (35-9) at Magic (33-8) (Read 49169 times)