We better develop some flow to that second unit

[cordobes]

As far as the garbage time comments, I don't know how people can say that the fact our guys continuously have an issue with keeping the lead is not a big deal.

What people are telling you is that yesterday they kept the lead. It was the POB/Walker/Pruitt lineup that lost it. But that has nothing to do with the 2nd unit.

[EJPLAYA]

As far as the garbage time comments, I don't know how people can say that the fact our guys continuously have an issue with keeping the lead is not a big deal.

What people are telling you is that yesterday they kept the lead. It was the POB/Walker/Pruitt lineup that lost it. But that has nothing to do with the 2nd unit.

I see, so the entire bench's negative +/- numbers are not true?! (Not including BBD who spent a huge amount of his minutes with the starters guarding Shaq) Eddie, Gabe, and Powe had larger +/- numbers than Walker and POB. Gabe was the guy in for Rondo in the second half, not Eddie by the way. He was part of that 2nd unit as well. The numbers don't quite agree with your statement.

[crownsy]

I think he was more saying that POB/Walker/gabe don't really consitiute the bench, since they barley get any time outside of garbage when the team is healthy.

which is true, though i hope pruitt somehow keeps his time when TA the turnover donkey comes back.

[Fafnir]

As far as the garbage time comments, I don't know how people can say that the fact our guys continuously have an issue with keeping the lead is not a big deal.

What people are telling you is that yesterday they kept the lead. It was the POB/Walker/Pruitt lineup that lost it. But that has nothing to do with the 2nd unit.

I see, so the entire bench's negative +/- numbers are not true?! (Not including BBD who spent a huge amount of his minutes with the starters guarding Shaq) Eddie, Gabe, and Powe had larger +/- numbers than Walker and POB. Gabe was the guy in for Rondo in the second half, not Eddie by the way. He was part of that 2nd unit as well. The numbers don't quite agree with your statement.

Those negative +/- numbers were acquired during garbage time, with a line-up that was only out there because the game was already over. Take a look

http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20090119&game=PHOBOS

Only in the fourth quarter when it was clear garbage time did they lose any of the lead. You don't judge teams by what happens in garbage time. Especially since they were often just holding the ball for 20 seconds and then jacking up whatever shot they got if the play didn't result in a lay-up.

[cordobes]

As far as the garbage time comments, I don't know how people can say that the fact our guys continuously have an issue with keeping the lead is not a big deal.

What people are telling you is that yesterday they kept the lead. It was the POB/Walker/Pruitt lineup that lost it. But that has nothing to do with the 2nd unit.

I see, so the entire bench's negative +/- numbers are not true?! (Not including BBD who spent a huge amount of his minutes with the starters guarding Shaq) Eddie, Gabe, and Powe had larger +/- numbers than Walker and POB. Gabe was the guy in for Rondo in the second half, not Eddie by the way. He was part of that 2nd unit as well. The numbers don't quite agree with your statement.

The idea that the second unit is the unit that start playing with 8 minutes to go is truly bizarre. Until that moment, no lead was lost. In fact, the 2nd unit gave us a bigger lead.

[EJPLAYA]

As far as the garbage time comments, I don't know how people can say that the fact our guys continuously have an issue with keeping the lead is not a big deal.

What people are telling you is that yesterday they kept the lead. It was the POB/Walker/Pruitt lineup that lost it. But that has nothing to do with the 2nd unit.

I see, so the entire bench's negative +/- numbers are not true?! (Not including BBD who spent a huge amount of his minutes with the starters guarding Shaq) Eddie, Gabe, and Powe had larger +/- numbers than Walker and POB. Gabe was the guy in for Rondo in the second half, not Eddie by the way. He was part of that 2nd unit as well. The numbers don't quite agree with your statement.

Those negative +/- numbers were acquired during garbage time, with a line-up that was only out there because the game was already over. Take a look

http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20090119&game=PHOBOS

Only in the fourth quarter when it was clear garbage time did they lose any of the lead. You don't judge teams by what happens in garbage time. Especially since they were often just holding the ball for 20 seconds and then jacking up whatever shot they got if the play didn't result in a lay-up.

I'm not judging the TEAM based on the garbage time. I am judging the second unit and sometimes Walker and POB when they get in. These guys have made it a habit all year of losing leads. Last year our 2nd unit made a habit of extending leads. Dismissing their performance because it was "garbage time" is a horrible standard to set. The third unit (POB and Walker and sometimes Gabe) are trying to show they belong and deserve more minutes. If we discount their poor play and blame it on garbage time it doesn't help them a bit. The 2nd unit which was in the game through a good chunk of the 4th quarter should be playing well to earn Doc's confidence. If you allow them to play poorly in that circumstance it is going to translate into games that matter. Remember the old "practice makes perfect" saying. This is these guys practice time. If they don't perform then Danny will for sure be looking at that waiver wire and trying to make deals.

[EJPLAYA]

As far as the garbage time comments, I don't know how people can say that the fact our guys continuously have an issue with keeping the lead is not a big deal.

What people are telling you is that yesterday they kept the lead. It was the POB/Walker/Pruitt lineup that lost it. But that has nothing to do with the 2nd unit.

I see, so the entire bench's negative +/- numbers are not true?! (Not including BBD who spent a huge amount of his minutes with the starters guarding Shaq) Eddie, Gabe, and Powe had larger +/- numbers than Walker and POB. Gabe was the guy in for Rondo in the second half, not Eddie by the way. He was part of that 2nd unit as well. The numbers don't quite agree with your statement.

The idea that the second unit is the unit that start playing with 8 minutes to go is truly bizarre. Until that moment, no lead was lost. In fact, the 2nd unit gave us a bigger lead.

Explain their negative +/- then... Or do we not care about what the numbers actually say?! The numbers say that when those players were in the game, we had a higher negative number than when POB and Walker were (our third line guys). I'm sure you'd prefer to make something up though that supports what you THOUGHT you saw...

[Chris]

As far as the garbage time comments, I don't know how people can say that the fact our guys continuously have an issue with keeping the lead is not a big deal.

What people are telling you is that yesterday they kept the lead. It was the POB/Walker/Pruitt lineup that lost it. But that has nothing to do with the 2nd unit.

I see, so the entire bench's negative +/- numbers are not true?! (Not including BBD who spent a huge amount of his minutes with the starters guarding Shaq) Eddie, Gabe, and Powe had larger +/- numbers than Walker and POB. Gabe was the guy in for Rondo in the second half, not Eddie by the way. He was part of that 2nd unit as well. The numbers don't quite agree with your statement.

The idea that the second unit is the unit that start playing with 8 minutes to go is truly bizarre. Until that moment, no lead was lost. In fact, the 2nd unit gave us a bigger lead.

Explain their negative +/- then... Or do we not care about what the numbers actually say?! The numbers say that when those players were in the game, we had a higher negative number than when POB and Walker were (our third line guys). I'm sure you'd prefer to make something up though that supports what you THOUGHT you saw...

Small sample size, too many confounding variables, a flawed statistic.  Choose your explanation. 

[Fafnir]

As far as the garbage time comments, I don't know how people can say that the fact our guys continuously have an issue with keeping the lead is not a big deal.

What people are telling you is that yesterday they kept the lead. It was the POB/Walker/Pruitt lineup that lost it. But that has nothing to do with the 2nd unit.

I see, so the entire bench's negative +/- numbers are not true?! (Not including BBD who spent a huge amount of his minutes with the starters guarding Shaq) Eddie, Gabe, and Powe had larger +/- numbers than Walker and POB. Gabe was the guy in for Rondo in the second half, not Eddie by the way. He was part of that 2nd unit as well. The numbers don't quite agree with your statement.

Those negative +/- numbers were acquired during garbage time, with a line-up that was only out there because the game was already over. Take a look

http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20090119&game=PHOBOS

Only in the fourth quarter when it was clear garbage time did they lose any of the lead. You don't judge teams by what happens in garbage time. Especially since they were often just holding the ball for 20 seconds and then jacking up whatever shot they got if the play didn't result in a lay-up.

I'm not judging the TEAM based on the garbage time. I am judging the second unit and sometimes Walker and POB when they get in. These guys have made it a habit all year of losing leads. Last year our 2nd unit made a habit of extending leads. Dismissing their performance because it was "garbage time" is a horrible standard to set. The third unit (POB and Walker and sometimes Gabe) are trying to show they belong and deserve more minutes. If we discount their poor play and blame it on garbage time it doesn't help them a bit. The 2nd unit which was in the game through a good chunk of the 4th quarter should be playing well to earn Doc's confidence. If you allow them to play poorly in that circumstance it is going to translate into games that matter. Remember the old "practice makes perfect" saying. This is these guys practice time. If they don't perform then Danny will for sure be looking at that waiver wire and trying to make deals.

It is always better to play well than poorly, but to judge what the second unit brings to the team based on garbage time is foolish. The lead was 29 points with 8 minutes to go in the game. The bench had plenty to do with getting the lead there.

I agree that the third unit played poorly, that is why it is a third lineup. They are glued to the bench whenever the game isn't already over. The end of your bench is rarely ever a good unit by any means.

I'm not even sure what your point is overall. Every lineup save one (that was a measly -2) kicked the Suns ass until only half a quarter of the game was left. To suggest that losing 14 points of a lead in garbage time means that we should adjust the rotations for the entire game is silly.

[Fafnir]

As far as the garbage time comments, I don't know how people can say that the fact our guys continuously have an issue with keeping the lead is not a big deal.

What people are telling you is that yesterday they kept the lead. It was the POB/Walker/Pruitt lineup that lost it. But that has nothing to do with the 2nd unit.

I see, so the entire bench's negative +/- numbers are not true?! (Not including BBD who spent a huge amount of his minutes with the starters guarding Shaq) Eddie, Gabe, and Powe had larger +/- numbers than Walker and POB. Gabe was the guy in for Rondo in the second half, not Eddie by the way. He was part of that 2nd unit as well. The numbers don't quite agree with your statement.

The idea that the second unit is the unit that start playing with 8 minutes to go is truly bizarre. Until that moment, no lead was lost. In fact, the 2nd unit gave us a bigger lead.

Explain their negative +/- then... Or do we not care about what the numbers actually say?! The numbers say that when those players were in the game, we had a higher negative number than when POB and Walker were (our third line guys). I'm sure you'd prefer to make something up though that supports what you THOUGHT you saw...

Have you looked at the popcorn game machine game flow? Only in the fourth quarter with no starters in the game did they start to bleed some points. But even then with 8 minutes to go it was a 29 point game. Basically in the last eight minutes the Suns bench hit a few shots and we missed them. That is all, and you are wildly twisting what happened to fit your point that the second unit played poorly this game!

[RockinRyA]

well i think what EJPLAYA is pointing out is what the topic says.. without starters with them, the second unit really has no flow at all. we dont need it that much actually, because the only time were gona see them together is when we blow teams out.

still, a 20 point lead could get down to a single digit and starters has to come back again. we wouldnt want that. so yes they mustve some kind of flow when theyre playing the other team's bench

[ManUp]

I think our bench has gotten better at managing leads since the absence of TA, and emergence of Scal. Garbage time can't really be counted since they are just messing around, and the game's decided. Garbage time is when the winning team start trying to make sport center instead of playing basketball. We held a 30 point lead until probably 5 minutes to go.