Author Topic: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest  (Read 7696 times)

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Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2009, 09:48:18 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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POB, with all his deficiencies, played quite well with KG during preseason, so there's a bit of precedent there.

Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2009, 09:54:29 AM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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When you look at what playing with KG did for Perkins, you have to wonder what kind of effect it will have on O'Bryant. Garnett's intensity and communication on defense could do a lot for O'Bryant's hustle and rotations.

KG has been a security blanket for up and coming players his whole career, Rondo avg's 2/3 more assists per night from just throwing it up to him, Chauncey developed into the player that he is, Marbury first flourished with him, Perk as you said, Wally world thrived alongside the big ticket, and a young 34 year old sam cassell had one of his best years with Kevin.

this is all part of KG's hall of fame career, he makes the people around him better. hell scal looks good starting in perks place doesn't he? Putting POB out there with kevin will really help him alot.

Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2009, 06:46:16 PM »

Offline billysan

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Putting POB out there with kevin will really help him alot.

So he will grow up faster with a KG security blanket? I think building confidence is important and maybe that would help POB. So will the positive aspect of having a successful role model. I still want to hear that he is putting in the work and getting better from Doc. Just me, I guess.
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Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2009, 05:34:09 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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When I said "hide" their mistakes I meant minimalize their mistakes because they have starters around them doing so many other good things. it won't hurt the progress of the five playing as much because the young guys are not already on a unit that in itself is struggling...so their mistakes won't be as damaging to the successful progress of the team.

Even when the starters are playing well, llike durign the 19 game win streak...they would have to come back in to bail out the second unit because they weren't cutting it as a group...this lead to KG blowing up at Big baby. I think KG blew up because he knows the starting unit can't play heavy hard minutes all season and then be expected to have enough gas for the playoff drive.

Which brings me to the original point of why I think we might have at least some answers to our bench problems...on the bench in Pruitt, Walker and POB.

The maind problems with the second unit are that it is incomplete:

1. No legit point who can set the table ( Pruitt at least is way better than House at this). House can't "create" anything for that second unit. To me he is Steve Kerr times two ( better) and I love him for that qulaity. But he can't run that unit.

2. No back up for Perk

3. No athletic swingman.

Thse three guys each fit the holes that we're missing on that second unit.

They may not be ready yet but they just have to "survive" out there right now. Get these guys just a little more rest each game and put just a little pressure on the other unit.

Pruitt > very ready, I'd be palying the crap out of him and I'd like to see he and Rondo in there together sometimes.

Walker > will make mistakes but he can probably "handle it" right now.

POB > Most marginal right now but he might play better with the starters pushign him around out there.

WE only need 4-8 minutes from POB and Walker.

It also gives the other teams more to think about.

KG does get rest form Powe and baby but when Perk's out or in foul trouble KG has to swing to center, which are hard minutes for him...     

 

Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2009, 06:52:48 PM »

Offline dmopower

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When I said "hide" their mistakes I meant minimalize their mistakes because they have starters around them doing so many other good things. it won't hurt the progress of the five playing as much because the young guys are not already on a unit that in itself is struggling...so their mistakes won't be as damaging to the successful progress of the team.

Even when the starters are playing well, llike durign the 19 game win streak...they would have to come back in to bail out the second unit because they weren't cutting it as a group...this lead to KG blowing up at Big baby. I think KG blew up because he knows the starting unit can't play heavy hard minutes all season and then be expected to have enough gas for the playoff drive.

Which brings me to the original point of why I think we might have at least some answers to our bench problems...on the bench in Pruitt, Walker and POB.

The maind problems with the second unit are that it is incomplete:

1. No legit point who can set the table ( Pruitt at least is way better than House at this). House can't "create" anything for that second unit. To me he is Steve Kerr times two ( better) and I love him for that qulaity. But he can't run that unit.

2. No back up for Perk

3. No athletic swingman.

Thse three guys each fit the holes that we're missing on that second unit.

They may not be ready yet but they just have to "survive" out there right now. Get these guys just a little more rest each game and put just a little pressure on the other unit.

Pruitt > very ready, I'd be palying the crap out of him and I'd like to see he and Rondo in there together sometimes.

Walker > will make mistakes but he can probably "handle it" right now.

POB > Most marginal right now but he might play better with the starters pushign him around out there.

WE only need 4-8 minutes from POB and Walker.

It also gives the other teams more to think about.

KG does get rest form Powe and baby but when Perk's out or in foul trouble KG has to swing to center, which are hard minutes for him...     

I agree, I have said it before.
You hear these guys cry, he hasent done it in any meaningful minutes, it was against other scrubbs, well if this is the only people you play with it will always be this way.
WOW POB dident look very good, playing with 4 other guys that dident look very good, of course he dident, everybody is learning.
Put him in with the starters and see how he does when the other 4 players are doing their part so he can focus on his mistakes, and have the guidence of the other starters.
He can only get better.
Playing with better players makes you play better.
This holds true the other way as well.
Playing with scrubs makes you play more like a scrub, great learning experience,Im learning from a bunch of guys that are learning also.
Anyway a TP for your insight, and willingness to go against the grain of the alleged wise old farts out there.
blind optimist or GENIUS

Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2009, 03:59:57 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Thanks for the Tommy Point. I just feel that sometimes a few less minutes a night, like five less for each of the big three can make a huge difference in their freshness and effectiveness.

I think these three kids ( Pruitt and Walker especially right now) can survive in those minutes while adding some much need athletic pressure to that second unit.

Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2009, 04:02:17 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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But I'm a big beleiver in "throwing guys inot the fire" If they can't take getting their butts handed to them occaisionally and can't take their lumps then they shouldn't be in the league in the first place.

I don't beleive in protecting their egos by not throwing them in when they're not quite ready.

best way to grow is by getting your butt handed to you...daily.

I'd be more worreid about letting them stagnate on the bench and I think these two guys will "add" something. I think Pruitt already is.


Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2009, 04:08:10 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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But I'm a big beleiver in "throwing guys inot the fire" If they can't take getting their butts handed to them occaisionally and can't take their lumps then they shouldn't be in the league in the first place.

I don't beleive in protecting their egos by not throwing them in when they're not quite ready.

best way to grow is by getting your butt handed to you...daily.

I'd be more worreid about letting them stagnate on the bench and I think these two guys will "add" something. I think Pruitt already is.


I agree with you that you need minutes to figure out if you can be a player in this league. But we're a championship team fighting for playoff position and for rhythm going into the post season. We don't have minutes to spend on them right now.

Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2009, 05:11:47 PM »

Offline ManUp

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It's really too bad J.R. is injured. Walker's just putting the jets on him while he's nursing that wrist. I really want to see if he's gotten head together.

Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2009, 06:12:58 PM »

Offline thedawg

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I thought it was quite logical to use the players you have assembled on the roster.  However, Doc seems to have different opinion about these things and he will be watching the finals in front of the TV this year unless he changes this.
In Danny Ainge I Trust!

Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2009, 01:36:40 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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I agree, I think the team will win another ring "if" we push these young athletic guys big time...now. I think if Pruitt really gets dome good run between now and the end of the season, he could end up playing some great D for us and adding some very nice athleticsm at the point. I think Walker could add some physical pressure behind Pierce as well on the second unit. Some athleticism on the break and some good rebounding from the 3 spot. POB is the most marginal.

I do think Danny will sign perhpas a Marbury and another Vet big for sure. At which point you probably shelf these guys again until next season.

But right now to get these starters normal rest so they are not palyign too many hard minutes...play these young kids a little. You get the starters rest and you they might actually get a jump start on developing and be more ready for next season.

I agree that if we don't develope these guys AND we don't sign a couple Vets, we might not make the finals.

If we sign the Vets and/or develope these two ( Walker and Pruitt), I think we'll have enough.

Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2009, 01:43:47 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I agree, I think the team will win another ring "if" we push these young athletic guys big time...now. I think if Pruitt really gets dome good run between now and the end of the season, he could end up playing some great D for us and adding some very nice athleticsm at the point. I think Walker could add some physical pressure behind Pierce as well on the second unit. Some athleticism on the break and some good rebounding from the 3 spot. POB is the most marginal.

I do think Danny will sign perhpas a Marbury and another Vet big for sure. At which point you probably shelf these guys again until next season.

But right now to get these starters normal rest so they are not palyign too many hard minutes...play these young kids a little. You get the starters rest and you they might actually get a jump start on developing and be more ready for next season.

I agree that if we don't develope these guys AND we don't sign a couple Vets, we might not make the finals.

If we sign the Vets and/or develope these two ( Walker and Pruitt), I think we'll have enough.
You do realize that KG, Pierce and Allen are playing almost the exact amount of minutes that they played last year and if looked at comparatively from a game perspective, after 42 games last year they were playing more minutes than they are right now?

Exactly how many more minutes are the starters supposed to play? I think Doc is doing a great job at getting the starters rest and working in the bench. I don't necessarily agree with the way he goes about it(All starters and then all subs, for the most part) but he's getting a good amount of minutes and rest for everyone.

Those young guys are just going to have to beat out the players in front of them for the time. Cutting rotational players minutes for the sole benefit of developing youngsters is nuts on a team fighting for home court advantage in the playoffs.

Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2009, 02:40:57 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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The starteer are playing much harder minutes this year. They have a bullseye on them after winning the ring and we're not getting as many blowouts as last year. The bench isn't as deep. Theya re a year older as well.

I think Doc has done a pretty good job at getting them rest as you mention and I also agree with you about not liking the platoon rotations.

However, Pruit is especially ready for and increased role. He brings something that is sorelylacking from that second unit; a point with some sembleance of point guard skills.

Walker brings and athletic and physical rebounding and running presence in a typical small forward size and strength behind Pierce. Something that neither Scal ( who's better at the 5 & 4) and TAllen( whos' best at the 3 ) can bring.

So I see these two as boost to our cause rahter than a hindrance.

Particulalry until we sign another Vet or two for the run.   

Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2009, 02:46:10 PM »

Offline crownsy

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The starteer are playing much harder minutes this year. They have a bullseye on them after winning the ring and we're not getting as many blowouts as last year. The bench isn't as deep. Theya re a year older as well.

I think Doc has done a pretty good job at getting them rest as you mention and I also agree with you about not liking the platoon rotations.

However, Pruit is especially ready for and increased role. He brings something that is sorelylacking from that second unit; a point with some sembleance of point guard skills.

Walker brings and athletic and physical rebounding and running presence in a typical small forward size and strength behind Pierce. Something that neither Scal ( who's better at the 5 & 4) and TAllen( whos' best at the 3 ) can bring.

So I see these two as boost to our cause rahter than a hindrance.

Particulalry until we sign another Vet or two for the run.   
I think "harder minutes" is very subjective, and doesn't really reflect reality. Minutes are minutes, and the starters are right where i want them to be. The hard fact is, if you want these minutes for walker and pruitt, someones minutes off the bench are going bye-bye.


and Tallen is not a 3. he's undersized and gets in foul trouble when he plays 3's who drive. Tony is a 2.

I like walker, and have said he's looked good, but im not ready to jump two feet into the "wow, rotation player please ASAP" camp.

pruitt is ready for some run. hopefully he'll get it at the expense of TA's/houses minutes.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 02:57:51 PM by crownsy »
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Re: Pruitt, Walker & POB = Rest
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2009, 03:22:24 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The starteer are playing much harder minutes this year. They have a bullseye on them after winning the ring and we're not getting as many blowouts as last year. The bench isn't as deep. Theya re a year older as well.

I think Doc has done a pretty good job at getting them rest as you mention and I also agree with you about not liking the platoon rotations.

However, Pruit is especially ready for and increased role. He brings something that is sorelylacking from that second unit; a point with some sembleance of point guard skills.

Walker brings and athletic and physical rebounding and running presence in a typical small forward size and strength behind Pierce. Something that neither Scal ( who's better at the 5 & 4) and TAllen( whos' best at the 3 ) can bring.

So I see these two as boost to our cause rahter than a hindrance.

Particulalry until we sign another Vet or two for the run.   
As crownsy just said, "harder minutes" is very subjective. Harder than what? Any other minutes they ever had to play? Playing defense against and trying to score against the likes of LeBron, Kobe, Bosh, Wade, and even lesser players is no easier or harder now, than it was last year.

And I'll never buy the "they are one year older" argument as I can counter that they are really only 6 months older than last June when they were playing and winning the Finals. If you want to say they shouldn't play the minutes they did when they were 28 years old because they are 3+ years older, okay, I'll agree with that. But all three of the Big Three are in unbelievable physical condition even in comparison to other NBA players their age. Allen and Garnett might be the players in the best physical condition at their ages in the entire league. The minutes they play now are carefully monitored and are about right for how the play the game.

As for Pruitt, I agree whole heartedly. I watched a bunch of his games when he was at USC and thought he would be a 1st round pick. When the C's got him I was very excited because I truly believe he's going to be a heck of an NBA player someday. Last year he was lost. This preseason he seemed somewhat better but still just didn't look like he knew enough to warrant playing time. But I think he's finally earned it and it shows. His perimeter defense is very good. His lateral footwork is excellent. He always has his hands up, unlike most NBA players. He keeps his man in front of him and his rotations while not perfect aren't horrid, like they were. He's always had a sweet stroke, I mean a really nice shooting form, but it's obvious he is playing smart offensive basketball and not turning the ball over, maybe the most important aspect of a backup PG. His passing is now much better than it was his senior year at USC and he's able to penetrate pretty good even if he isn't trying it as much as he should. He also has an incredible ability to pull up off the dribble and hit that 15-18 footer, a very under rated skill.

I hope to see more of Pruitt but I think it's a case where he has earned the playing time. As much as I hate Tony Allen, I don't think Walker has earned the right to take his minutes. Allen is a good professional defender. Walker, I still can't tell. But at times he looks lost out there and if it came down to needing either him or Allen to stop someone late in a game, I'd go with Allen every time. And I hate Tony Allen. This doesn't mean I don't think Bill Walker won't be a good pro someday. Quite the contrary, I do. I think he was a steal. But he's not ready for anything more than garbage minutes right now.