Lebron vs Kobe

[xmuscularghandix]

Defense: Lebron
Driving the lane: Lebron
Atheleticism: Lebron
Outside Shooting: Kobe (but Lebron has shown alot of improvement)
Leadership: Lebron

[Slugger]

I dont know if its safe to, but i'm siding with Brick on this one.  Just, though.

Kobe is definately more clutch.  There is nobody in the league that you want to have the ball in crunch time.  He has such great variety in his game, can beat you numerous ways. 

I believe that the past couple of years, Kobe has become too selfless.  The only way the Lakers will win another title in the Kobe era is when he decides he has to take over.  He didnt do that in last years finals - but is very capable. In the crunch, i would also perhaps have one or two others ahead of Lebron (being PP and DWade).

Lebrons outside shooting, whilst improved, leaves alot to be desired.  Moreso, as Brick mentioned, his shot selection is extremely questionable at times. FT shooting is also a problem area for Bron.

Again to quote Brick, Lebron is just an absolute freak, but doesnt utilise the size and skillset to its fullest.

Kobe has the footwork and speed as a defender, and he does an incredible job doing it.  Lebron is improving defensively, however, i think Mike Brown is a defensive genius, and Lebron is only now understanding the system.

In terms of leadership, Kobe's past history is very questionable.  However, with that said, i dont think Lebrons maturity will ever catch up with his ability. 

All in all, i do not see an LBJ championship in the next 3 or so years, so that also re-inforces my vote for Kobe

[Roy Hobbs]

Kobe's "clutchness" is overrated.  82games.com did a study a couple of years ago, and it showed that Kobe ranked near the bottom of the league in percentage of game-winners made.  He makes a lot of buzzer-beaters, so that's what people remember, but he misses way more than he converts; his "clutch" reputation is simply a product of him *always* taking the last shot, regardless of whether he's the open option. 

(Carmelo had made the highest percentage of game-winners, as I recall.  This was probably 2 or 3 seasons ago, so I'm not sure what the sample size with Lebron looked like.)

Also, regardless of whether Lebron gets the most out of his physical gifts, he's still a more productive and efficient player than Kobe.  Imagine if he played to his full potential. 

[Finkelskyhook]

Until they are officiated evenly, it's impossible to compare the two.

Kobe falls on the bottom of second tier officiating.  The Pierce, Carter, Iverson, Wade, Nash, Anthony tier.   They get the extra step. The free throws when they jump into their opponent. The hacks when playing defense.  The obvious carrys, etc.  Kobe gets his share.  But he doesn't even get as many calls as our own star.

The Drama Queen makes news when he gets called for anything.  What he gets away with is so brazen and obvious that it makes his games painful to watch.

The Queen's God-given talent is probably unsurpassed in the history of basketball.  But until the playing field, vis-a-vis officiating, is level, it's impossible to compare him to anybody.  Past or present.

[Steve Weinman]

I'm a bit confused by the claims of LeBron's shoddy shot selection.  His traditional field goal percentage is better than 50 (to Kobe's 48.1), he shoots a higher eFG and has a better true shooting percentage despite being less effective on threes and at the foul line.  LeBron is getting his points and doing it as efficiently as just about anyone in the league. 

What don't you like about his shot selection?

-sw

[Fafnir]

I'm a bit confused by the claims of LeBron's shoddy shot selection.  His traditional field goal percentage is better than 50 (to Kobe's 48.1), he shoots a higher eFG and has a better true shooting percentage despite being less effective on threes and at the foul line.  LeBron is getting his points and doing it as efficiently as just about anyone in the league. 

What don't you like about his shot selection?

-sw

He takes too many threes. Sometimes even in transition. But he's so efficient with his drives and his FT shooting has been better that its a small quibble.

[twinbree]

I'm a bit confused by the claims of LeBron's shoddy shot selection.  His traditional field goal percentage is better than 50 (to Kobe's 48.1), he shoots a higher eFG and has a better true shooting percentage despite being less effective on threes and at the foul line.  LeBron is getting his points and doing it as efficiently as just about anyone in the league. 

What don't you like about his shot selection?

-sw

He takes too many threes. Sometimes even in transition. But he's so efficient with his drives and his FT shooting has been better that its a small quibble.

Yeah he does e.g trying for the game winning 3 after crabdribblegate when were better 3 point shooters on the floor. Count me firmly in the Kobe is better camp. Lebron may be more gifted physically and that allows him to be dominant especially with the help from the refs but I think the player with more skills has to be the better player.

[cordobes]

I'm a bit confused by the claims of LeBron's shoddy shot selection.  His traditional field goal percentage is better than 50 (to Kobe's 48.1), he shoots a higher eFG and has a better true shooting percentage despite being less effective on threes and at the foul line.  LeBron is getting his points and doing it as efficiently as just about anyone in the league. 

What don't you like about his shot selection?

-sw

He takes too many threes. Sometimes even in transition. But he's so efficient with his drives and his FT shooting has been better that its a small quibble.

Yeah, James takes .22 triples for every FGA. (Kobe takes 0.17), fires 4.8 shots for every 40 minutes (3.7 for Kobe) and 18.1% of his team 3pt attempts (18.3 for Kobe), while being a far less efficient shooter from distance than Bryant (30% to 36%). I think a case can be made (this season numbers are not a fluke). However, I strongly suspect that LeBron takes a lot less of long.range 2s than Kobe and most of his peers. And that's a far worse shot. Also, he certainly takes less fallaways and teardrops than Kobe. Of course one could say that LeBron doesn't take them because he doesn't need to, but how can that be an indictment of him?

Anyway, I'm not sure if that can be translate to a bad shot selection - the criteria to judge that is always extremely subjective -, or a worse/better shot selection than Kobe (I personally believe Kobe has a subpar shot selection, going far too often to a more difficult shot without necessity).

What it seems to me is that people who are taking Kobe over LeBron are adopting a process of reasoning that goes like: A is a better player than B. However, he has the tools to be even better than he is. As B makes more of his "natural resources", he's the true better player. I disagree with this logic.

And what's up with the body thing? I mean, if Michael Jordan had my body, would he have been the GOAT? I don't think so... what about Russell or Shaq with my body and athleticism? How good would they have been? It's basketball, it's a sport, to discount the athletic ability of the player is completely nonsensical.

Anyway, I was just curious about something you said: why stressing the transition 3? What's wrong with the transition 3? It's because it's LeBron taking them?

[Slugger]

I'm a bit confused by the claims of LeBron's shoddy shot selection.  His traditional field goal percentage is better than 50 (to Kobe's 48.1), he shoots a higher eFG and has a better true shooting percentage despite being less effective on threes and at the foul line.  LeBron is getting his points and doing it as efficiently as just about anyone in the league. 

What don't you like about his shot selection?

-sw

According to 82games.com, last year Lebron in the "clutch" had almost 48 fga per 48 minutes. Out of those 48 fga, 14 or 29% of those "clutch" shots were 3 point fga.

This is why he has questionable shot selection.

Kobe, on the other hand, has 35 fga per 48 mins of "clutch" time, with 3.5 fga per 48 minutes.  Thats 10%.

Big Difference.  I dont think you can be defined as a clutch player when you are taking so many questionable shots - especially when you shoot less than 17% (****).

In my opinion, clutchness is what defines a better player.

Look at the history of the league and you'll see that quite often the best are typically the best clutch players in the league.

[Slugger]

Oh, and taking a look at this years smaller sample size, and what do we see, but the same trend.

Well, actually, not quite the same.  It paints an even worse picture for Lebron in terms of 3point FGA per 48mins.  He is taking around 42% 3 point shots in the clutch.

I will give him this though - he is hitting them at a much better clip.  Almost 38%!

[celticmaestro]

Pretty much a landslide victory for LeBronze here. I can see why, but I still don't agree. Another clutch three from Kobe last night too.

[Roy Hobbs]

Big Difference.  I dont think you can be defined as a clutch player when you are taking so many questionable shots - especially when you shoot less than 17% (****).

I missed the stat...  what is Lebron shooting less than 17% on?  I know that he has a ridiculous .658 eFG% in crunch time (Link); his shot selection can't be *too* bad.

Oh, and taking a look at this years smaller sample size, and what do we see, but the same trend.

Well, actually, not quite the same.  It paints an even worse picture for Lebron in terms of 3point FGA per 48mins.  He is taking around 42% 3 point shots in the clutch.

I will give him this though - he is hitting them at a much better clip.  Almost 38%!

If Lebron is shooting 38% on 3PTs in the last five minutes of close games, what's the problem?  How is that questionable shot selection?  That's the same as shooting 57% from two point range.

[Fafnir]

I'm a bit confused by the claims of LeBron's shoddy shot selection.  His traditional field goal percentage is better than 50 (to Kobe's 48.1), he shoots a higher eFG and has a better true shooting percentage despite being less effective on threes and at the foul line.  LeBron is getting his points and doing it as efficiently as just about anyone in the league. 

What don't you like about his shot selection?

-sw

He takes too many threes. Sometimes even in transition. But he's so efficient with his drives and his FT shooting has been better that its a small quibble.

Yeah, James takes .22 triples for every FGA. (Kobe takes 0.17), fires 4.8 shots for every 40 minutes (3.7 for Kobe) and 18.1% of his team 3pt attempts (18.3 for Kobe), while being a far less efficient shooter from distance than Bryant (30% to 36%). I think a case can be made (this season numbers are not a fluke). However, I strongly suspect that LeBron takes a lot less of long.range 2s than Kobe and most of his peers. And that's a far worse shot. Also, he certainly takes less fallaways and teardrops than Kobe. Of course one could say that LeBron doesn't take them because he doesn't need to, but how can that be an indictment of him?

Anyway, I'm not sure if that can be translate to a bad shot selection - the criteria to judge that is always extremely subjective -, or a worse/better shot selection than Kobe (I personally believe Kobe has a subpar shot selection, going far too often to a more difficult shot without necessity).

What it seems to me is that people who are taking Kobe over LeBron are adopting a process of reasoning that goes like: A is a better player than B. However, he has the tools to be even better than he is. As B makes more of his "natural resources", he's the true better player. I disagree with this logic.

And what's up with the body thing? I mean, if Michael Jordan had my body, would he have been the GOAT? I don't think so... what about Russell or Shaq with my body and athleticism? How good would they have been? It's basketball, it's a sport, to discount the athletic ability of the player is completely nonsensical.

Anyway, I was just curious about something you said: why stressing the transition 3? What's wrong with the transition 3? It's because it's LeBron taking them?

I don't think he has bad shot selection. I was just chiming in the only thing about it that I don't like about his shot selection. He should take less threes but I can see why he does it given he's often doubled and then played off by nearly a foot near the 3 point line.

The type of transition three I've seen that I hate is when he's dribbling the ball and pulls up to take the three. If he has the ball he should drive in almost any transition situtation. He has teammates who are better shooter who he can kick it out to, assuming he doesn't get a dunk or fouled.

[drza44]

I'm in the "It's LeBron, and it's not close" camp.  I believe Kobe is an outstanding player, and that he has been a top-5 player in the NBA for about a decade.  He's been top-3 for much of his prime, but for the most part I think some combo of Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, and LeBron have been better than him pretty much every year of his career.  These days, Wade has definitely entered the discussion as well.

So why is Kobe so often considered "the best player on the planet" or so often in the "could he be as good as Jordan" conversations whereas someone like Duncan is rarely mentioned?  IMO, it's because Kobe's playing style is the most similar to Jordan's, and many consider Jordan the GOAT, so by transitive reasoning the player who plays most like Jordan must be the current best player.

I disagree with that.  Kobe's scoring is outstanding, and he is definitely one of the better clutch players in the NBA.  But I think "clutch scoring" has become almost overrated...as Roy points out, Carmelo Anthony is probably the best clutch scorer in the NBA.  But there's no way on earth he's even top-10 among players overall. 

To me, it's about overall impact.  How many points are you worth to your team, and how much are you able to prevent the other team.  And to me, LeBron has a much bigger impact than Kobe does right now.  People mention "size" almost in passing, or in some cases almost as a negative against LeBron (?!), but in reality that is a huge part of the difference.  LeBron's size makes him next-to-unstoppable on offense, to a degree that Kobe can't consistently match despite his vast skill.  LeBron's size allows him to be a monster defensively as well, not just taking out his own man (like he did against Pierce) but also allowing him to protect the rim, patrol the paint, and dominate on the glass.  Kobe's upside as a defender is as a lock-down guy, and even that he only can do in spurts without affecting his offense.  Kobe's defensive impact is IMO one of the most overrated portions of his game.

So yeah, LeBron or Kobe?  LeBron fairly easily.

[BrickJames]

I love how no one has commented on this, especially you SW:

I'd rather have Kobe as my go-to guy at the end of a game than LeBron, especially because Kobe is less reliant on officiating in terms of getting off a quality shot.  LeBron's bulldozing drives to the basket and/or crab dribbles are always subject to interpretation.

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't trust a player who, IMO, isn't as good as he is without the officials.

If you want to crown this kid King, go right ahead.  I am in awe of his freakish athletic ability, but I do not let that cloud my reason in terms of evaluating basketball skill.

I'm looking forward to Roy's next post with millions of devised statistics telling me I'm wrong.