Author Topic: Desperate times call for desperate measures...  (Read 2867 times)

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Desperate times call for desperate measures...
« on: January 10, 2009, 11:43:45 AM »

Offline Schupac

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... but are these desperate times?

If you don't think so, then you might as well stop reading.  Up until last night I was still optimistic and scornfully looking down at all the negative naysayers out there.  But I just can't do that anymore.  It was not that they lost to the Cavs, or they've lost 7 of 9.  It was just how badly the Cavs took them down.  There is no fear of this team, and now our best rival is suddenly looking downright confident against us.  I think if the psychological edge does not get reestablished soon, we're in trouble.

So what can we do? 

First, bring on Starbury.  He might be just exactly what the doctor ordered and what Doc needs.  Or he could be poison.  But his offense and ball handling is sorely needed from the bench, and maybe he'll have just the hungry attitude this team seems to be lacking.  But the dice need to be rolled at this point in time.  Of course, all indications are the New York will be holding onto him until the trade deadline which is more than a month away.

Second, bring on... well anybody else.  Anyone else we can sign, bring out of retirement, etc.  Ok, not Antoine.  But if there is a veteran who is interested in playing, bring him in, and cut POB if needed.  The guy hasn't played any time worth having, so we aren't losing anything.

Ok, the first two have already been discussed to death.  Here are some relatively new ideas.

Third, go crazy with the lineup.  Teams are game planning for the Celtics and feel comfortable playing the Celtics.  So start Pruitt.  Give Giddens 25 minutes in a big game.  Start small with KG at center and Powe at the power forward.  Have Ray allen be your point guard and Eddie House the shooting gaurd.  If it aint broke, it's true you don't fix it.  But if it is, well you gotta do something.  And not all of the ideas above are good ones, really.  But even if you have the best fastball in all of baseball, you need to throw a few curve balls from time to time to keep variety.

Fourth, up the starter minutes.  I don't care if you need to let them rest instead of practicing, but the Celtics need to win a few games and soon, to maintain their edge and not fall too far in the standings.  At the very least we want to make sure that until the end of the season, the Cavaliers and Magic must play hard or risk losing home court.  At the most, I'd like to see us maintain home court throughout the playoffs because it sure helped last year.

This is my first panic post.  I really hope it's the last.  After all the trash I've talked, I just can't afford for this team to lose.  It would kill me.  And if the Cavs take it... I might have to move from Ohio.

Re: Desperate times call for desperate measures...
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2009, 12:22:12 PM »

Offline jdub1660

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I'm glad I'm not the only one ready to pull the trigger on this roster. Our bench is terrible, and the starters have lost their edge. Whether it be that they're tired, or just mentally whooped after winning so much and then losing this many games. Thanks LAL for starting this...I don't understand why Ainge has sat around this season, as we've missed out on both PJ and Mutumbo. Now I hear we're falling desperate for the likes of Horry. I loved his game...till he got old and lost his range. But at this point, our bench couldn't get any sorrier. I also read that we dumped Miles b/c Scal was so good this summer. . . . . wow. The Celtics need to beg NY to buyout Marbury(and beg Marbury to take a paycut) Sign Horry AND/OR Joe Smith if OKC FINALLY buys him out. Even then, we still need a SF, and to me, this bench would sound great...
Marbury, House, Miles, JoeSmith, Horry
The starters...
Rondo, Ray, Pierce, KG, Perkins
The bench warmers/garbage timers/injury protection...
Tony Allen, Pat0*, BBD, Powe, Pruitt*, Scal*, Cassell*
*Waive 2 of these guys, or trade them ANYWHERE for 2nd rouder*

Our team could finally put together another win streak and play ball against Cleveland and LAL
Can't stop, Rondo!

Re: Desperate times call for desperate measures...
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2009, 12:27:12 PM »

Offline PSquared

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... but are these desperate times?

If you don't think so, then you might as well stop reading.  Up until last night I was still optimistic and scornfully looking down at all the negative naysayers out there.  But I just can't do that anymore.  It was not that they lost to the Cavs, or they've lost 7 of 9.  It was just how badly the Cavs took them down.  There is no fear of this team, and now our best rival is suddenly looking downright confident against us.  I think if the psychological edge does not get reestablished soon, we're in trouble.

So what can we do? 

PANIC!!! OMG!!!!!  

 Oh wait.  Been there, done that. ;D


Quote
First, bring on Starbury.  He might be just exactly what the doctor ordered and what Doc needs.  Or he could be poison.  But his offense and ball handling is sorely needed from the bench, and maybe he'll have just the hungry attitude this team seems to be lacking.  But the dice need to be rolled at this point in time.  Of course, all indications are the New York will be holding onto him until the trade deadline which is more than a month away.

I'd sooner bring on Pestilence and Death before I'd bring on Stephon ME-bury.  And I also think the Knicks will hold on to him, as well.  Just out of spite.

Quote
Second, bring on... well anybody else.  Anyone else we can sign, bring out of retirement, etc.  Ok, not Antoine.  But if there is a veteran who is interested in playing, bring him in, and cut POB if needed.  The guy hasn't played any time worth having, so we aren't losing anything.

Why not Antoine?  I know this has been beaten to death but still.... "A veteran who is interested in playing...."?  Antoine has said that he "just wants to play".    Sounds like a fit to me.  Plus, he would bring fire and energy to this slumping team right now.   He may have declined as far as playing skills go but even Ainge admitted that his intangibles are very valuable.  Perhaps that's what this team is missing....

Quote
Ok, the first two have already been discussed to death.  Here are some relatively new ideas.

After reading the "third" and "finally" paragraphs, I don't see them as relatively NEW ideas....Just the old cliched ones.

Quote
Third, go crazy with the lineup.  Teams are game planning for the Celtics and feel comfortable playing the Celtics.  So start Pruitt.  Give Giddens 25 minutes in a big game.  Start small with KG at center and Powe at the power forward.  Have Ray allen be your point guard and Eddie House the shooting gaurd.  If it aint broke, it's true you don't fix it.  But if it is, well you gotta do something.  And not all of the ideas above are good ones, really.  But even if you have the best fastball in all of baseball, you need to throw a few curve balls from time to time to keep variety.

Fourth, up the starter minutes.  I don't care if you need to let them rest instead of practicing, but the Celtics need to win a few games and soon, to maintain their edge and not fall too far in the standings.  At the very least we want to make sure that until the end of the season, the Cavaliers and Magic must play hard or risk losing home court.  At the most, I'd like to see us maintain home court throughout the playoffs because it sure helped last year.

This is my first panic post.  I really hope it's the last.  After all the trash I've talked, I just can't afford for this team to lose.  It would kill me.  And if the Cavs take it... I might have to move from Ohio.

Re: Desperate times call for desperate measures...
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2009, 12:53:20 PM »

Offline ManUp

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It's simple get our gaurds to do their jobs. Guys are running through our backcourt like flood waters through sand bags. Our guards have become heavily reliant on the help defense from our bigs, and aren't doing their part. Help defense is what's needed after bad defense, relying on it is a bad game plan. It's not hard to see why Gabe is doing well when he's out there. He's simply not being a liability defensively and the other guys are free to do their jobs.

Re: Desperate times call for desperate measures...
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2009, 03:54:41 PM »

Offline Schupac

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jdub - Well I'm not advocating blowing up the roster, but I don't think you are either.  The trigger does, however, need to be pulled.  They can't keep waiting hoping for the perfect signing like PJ was last year, because they might be in a deep hole by then.

PSquard - Well, if you read the ending then yes, I am admittedly in panic mode.  That's the point of the post.

My feelings on Marbury used to be the same.  I didn't think we should risk his personality on this team.  But at this point in time, I think the risk has become worth the reward.  Essentially I feel we have less to lose than we did two weeks ago.

Not Antoine because I just don't think he is in playing shape, and I don't think he still has the same fire he had back when he did play in Boston.  Maybe he could develop it, but then I'm not sure if he'd want to be signed to a contract that we might terminate after a few games.

As to your comments...

Quote
After reading the "third" and "finally" paragraphs, I don't see them as relatively NEW ideas....Just the old cliched ones.

Gee, thanks for the input. ::)

I'd disagree with you but I don't think your one sentence condemnation warrants it.

It's simple get our gaurds to do their jobs. Guys are running through our backcourt like flood waters through sand bags. Our guards have become heavily reliant on the help defense from our bigs, and aren't doing their part. Help defense is what's needed after bad defense, relying on it is a bad game plan. It's not hard to see why Gabe is doing well when he's out there. He's simply not being a liability defensively and the other guys are free to do their jobs.

This is a good point.  But I don't think EHouse can do that.  I haven't seen enough of Pruitt to be confident in him.  I was talking to my brother about the game this morning and he remarked it is just amazing that the exact same team that just went 19-0 and looked rudunkulous through most of those games now looks this bad and listless.  Maybe if Rondo has an epiphany and remembers how to play his D, it will help, but I think the Cs problem right now is emotional and psychological, and they need some external stimulus to fix that.

Re: Desperate times call for desperate measures...
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2009, 04:09:42 PM »

Offline QuinielaBox

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How about the old fashioned solution:

Take it one game at a time and focus on playing defense. Last two games the Celtics have held two tough opponents to an average of 93 points. Lebron put the hammer down last night and 28 other NBA teams would have gotten blown out worse than the Celtics. Study that film and learn from it, Doc.

Next, find a way to cut down on turnovers. Get shots up there. The Celtics did get 2nd shots last night. I saw hope.

Third, bring up Walker and Giddens and find out what they are capable of. Guys like Eddie House and Scalabrine are doing nothing for us. Play players who contribute.

4th - Garnett is in a shooting slump. He also is guilty of dumb decisions with the ball as is Rondo. We are getting out scouted and teams seem to have us figured out and have a plan of attack that works. Until the team adjusts, the slump continues. Doc Rivers must earn his coaching salary here.   

These trade ideas I see are rediculous and will never solve anything.

Wins are few, times are hard. Here is your bleeping St Patricks Day Card.

Re: Desperate times call for desperate measures...
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2009, 07:22:00 PM »

Offline TheReaLPuba

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I think Ray's game is directly related to Rondo's offensive game. If Rondo is playing well and penetrating and getting open looks for Ray both players look really good.

Now they're not able to do that because of the change in the defense played against them.

When we were rolling on our 19 game win streak PP was the guy who was struggling with his shot and offense. And we didn't really get him involved as much to get him out of the funk.

Now that we're in a rut both Rondo and Ray have been struggling offensively and the whole team's defense has gone south really fast. Our bench hasn't been effective with the exception of short spurts.

Pierce has been trying to carry us on offense but he's still got to work out the kinks in his shot this year.

KG's still been pretty steady all year and our biggest problem right now is not able to stop teams from scoring.

We've sorta lost our identity and we need to find it quick.

Re: Desperate times call for desperate measures...
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2009, 08:27:45 PM »

Offline MattG12

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How about the old fashioned solution:

Take it one game at a time and focus on playing defense. Last two games the Celtics have held two tough opponents to an average of 93 points. Lebron put the hammer down last night and 28 other NBA teams would have gotten blown out worse than the Celtics. Study that film and learn from it, Doc.

Next, find a way to cut down on turnovers. Get shots up there. The Celtics did get 2nd shots last night. I saw hope.

Third, bring up Walker and Giddens and find out what they are capable of. Guys like Eddie House and Scalabrine are doing nothing for us. Play players who contribute.

4th - Garnett is in a shooting slump. He also is guilty of dumb decisions with the ball as is Rondo. We are getting out scouted and teams seem to have us figured out and have a plan of attack that works. Until the team adjusts, the slump continues. Doc Rivers must earn his coaching salary here.   

These trade ideas I see are rediculous and will never solve anything.



I agree with you 100%...

This team did just win 19 straight with the same players... now all of a sudden these players are all garbage and need to be traded, give me a break. It's a slump they'll figure it out. They still need a big man, but I'm not against giving POB a chance. They also need a 2nd string PG and it is not Eddie House or Tony Allen. Give Gabe Pruitt a chance as he has been playing very well... if it doesn't pan out, then we can think about Stephon Marbury... Otherwise try playing people who are on the team before thinking about signing cancers from other teams. I think the situation is a lot more simple than people think... the Celtics lost a big game, which hadn't happened all year, and they have started to question themselves and really just play bad basketball. The organization still has great players. Leon Powe and Big Baby although undersized are terrific bench players who have not reached their full potential yet, I've seen enough threads with people trying to trade them for awful players. Earlier this season Celtics fans argued that Rondo may be the best PG in the league... Last year Garnett said he believes Rondo will be the best PG in the NBA in two years... he has a few bad games and now people want to trade him away? This is starting to get ridiculous. Ray Allen and Eddie House will start hitting threes again, Rondo will start playing D again, the Celtics will start winning again. James Posey wasn't here during our 19 game winning streak, but all of a sudden everybody thinks we don't stand a chance because we lost him... Everybody needs to just relax.

Re: Desperate times call for desperate measures...
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2009, 12:12:05 AM »

Offline QuinielaBox

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How about the old fashioned solution:

Take it one game at a time and focus on playing defense. Last two games the Celtics have held two tough opponents to an average of 93 points. Lebron put the hammer down last night and 28 other NBA teams would have gotten blown out worse than the Celtics. Study that film and learn from it, Doc.

Next, find a way to cut down on turnovers. Get shots up there. The Celtics did get 2nd shots last night. I saw hope.

Third, bring up Walker and Giddens and find out what they are capable of. Guys like Eddie House and Scalabrine are doing nothing for us. Play players who contribute.

4th - Garnett is in a shooting slump. He also is guilty of dumb decisions with the ball as is Rondo. We are getting out scouted and teams seem to have us figured out and have a plan of attack that works. Until the team adjusts, the slump continues. Doc Rivers must earn his coaching salary here.   

These trade ideas I see are rediculous and will never solve anything.



I agree with you 100%...

This team did just win 19 straight with the same players... now all of a sudden these players are all garbage and need to be traded, give me a break. It's a slump they'll figure it out. They still need a big man, but I'm not against giving POB a chance. They also need a 2nd string PG and it is not Eddie House or Tony Allen. Give Gabe Pruitt a chance as he has been playing very well... if it doesn't pan out, then we can think about Stephon Marbury... Otherwise try playing people who are on the team before thinking about signing cancers from other teams. I think the situation is a lot more simple than people think... the Celtics lost a big game, which hadn't happened all year, and they have started to question themselves and really just play bad basketball. The organization still has great players. Leon Powe and Big Baby although undersized are terrific bench players who have not reached their full potential yet, I've seen enough threads with people trying to trade them for awful players. Earlier this season Celtics fans argued that Rondo may be the best PG in the league... Last year Garnett said he believes Rondo will be the best PG in the NBA in two years... he has a few bad games and now people want to trade him away? This is starting to get ridiculous. Ray Allen and Eddie House will start hitting threes again, Rondo will start playing D again, the Celtics will start winning again. James Posey wasn't here during our 19 game winning streak, but all of a sudden everybody thinks we don't stand a chance because we lost him... Everybody needs to just relax.

Thank you, Matt! All it is, is that it is an old fashioned slump. Better to have it in January than in May or June. In my 40 years of NBA watching, I have never seen a champion crowned in January. Lets move on and focus on Toronto who loves to be a Sunday afternoon troublemaker at home in front of their national TV audience.
Wins are few, times are hard. Here is your bleeping St Patricks Day Card.

Re: Desperate times call for desperate measures...
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2009, 12:19:23 AM »

Offline Jaycelt

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It's simple get our gaurds to do their jobs. Guys are running through our backcourt like flood waters through sand bags. Our guards have become heavily reliant on the help defense from our bigs, and aren't doing their part. Help defense is what's needed after bad defense, relying on it is a bad game plan.

BINGO!!!

Re: Desperate times call for desperate measures...
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2009, 02:25:50 AM »

Offline PSquared

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Not Antoine because I just don't think he is in playing shape, and I don't think he still has the same fire he had back when he did play in Boston.  Maybe he could develop it, but then I'm not sure if he'd want to be signed to a contract that we might terminate after a few games.


But we don't know whether he has the fire or not.  But I can definitely see him be rejuvenated being back(3rd time's the charm) in Beantown.    You're right about the contract thing, though. 

but right now I think antoine has more things to worry about than just playing ball.


Quote
As to your comments...

Quote
After reading the "third" and "finally" paragraphs, I don't see them as relatively NEW ideas....Just the old cliched ones.

Gee, thanks for the input. ::)

I'd disagree with you but I don't think your one sentence condemnation warrants it.

LOL!!  Just thought I'd act like a total smartass.  I hope I did a good job.   ;D ;D ;D