I would replace Doc before trading one of the big three.

[FatjohnReturns]

Doc is a nice person and a class act. Unfortunetly he is not a top teir coach and his offense does not maximize our players skills.(Ray Allen) I hate to say it, but to me last year would have turned out the same with most any coach. This team really needs a new message and hopefully Danny realizes it before the season is lost.

[Roy Hobbs]

I think Doc definitely needs to make some adjustments.  I blame the current losing streak mostly on the players, and then on Danny Ainge for doing nothing to fortify the bench.  However, Doc certainly isn't getting the most out of his team.  They don't appear motivated, which generally falls on the coach's shoulders. 

Also, of course, is Doc's substitution pattern.  He *needs* to mix the starters in more with the bench.  You can't throw a lineup of House/TA/BBD/Powe/Ray out there and expect them to produce.  82games.com has done studies in the past that show that 1) Doc is one of the coaches who uses at least four bench guys at the same time the most, and 2) teams that play 4 or more bench players get outscored consistently during such times.  That should be obvious, and yet Doc is constantly putting terrible lineups on the floor to match up with a mix of the other team's starters.

If Doc mixed in the bench with the starters more, I think you'd see the individual games of the players improve.  Look at the "player pairs" section of 82games.com.  Tony Allen and Leon Powe both play significantly better when they're on the floor with starters.  BBD's game even goes up a bit, even though he's been pretty consistently bad no matter who he's been playing with.

People talk about Powe's game decreasing.  I think part of that is because he's generally paired next to BBD and three or four other bench players, which doesn't allow him to maximize his game.  Last season, Powe only played 264 minutes next to BBD all season.  This year, he's already played 336.  When the other guy you're playing beside on the front line is shooting sub-40%, it's bound to injure your game, and that's what's happening with Leon.

Doc needs to recognize all of this, and rely on his starters to boost his bench.  I know Doc wants to get the "big three" rest, but here's the problem with that logic:  it leads to losses.  If the season ended right now, to win a championship the team would have to win a home series against Miami, then road series against Orlando, Cleveland, and Los Angeles.  That doesn't bode well for the Celtics chances at a title.

[Andy Jick]

we need tibs to work his magic...

i bet people won't be lining up at his doorstep for a head coaching job if this lack of defensive intensity and execution continues...

[cdif911]

we need tibs to work his magic...

i bet people won't be lining up at his doorstep for a head coaching job if this lack of defensive intensity and execution continues...

I'd line up to coach the c's and I think 99% of people without a coaching job would do the same - its still a gig, and guess what, this is the defending champion team - also doc won't be fired, the big 3 won't be traded, at least this year, so I wouldn't worry too much

[xmuscularghandix]

we need tibs to work his magic...

i bet people won't be lining up at his doorstep for a head coaching job if this lack of defensive intensity and execution continues...

I'd line up to coach the c's and I think 99% of people without a coaching job would do the same - its still a gig, and guess what, this is the defending champion team - also doc won't be fired, the big 3 won't be traded, at least this year, so I wouldn't worry too much

i think he meant that before this season tom was looked at as a really good defensive coach, and everyone thought he'd be a good head coach (somewhere else)

[Vermont Green]

15 days ago, we were 27-2 and the defending world champions.  Now 15 days later, still the defending champs but it is time to fire Doc because he can't coach anymore?

To quote Tommy H,  "arrrgggghhhhh"

Hang in people.  I am not sure why this team is so manic or bipolar but that probably comes with the territory with a highly emotional guy like KG. I believe Doc will get them back on track.  Basketball is like golf, you can be in the groove or out of the groove and the worst thing to do with either is to over-react in either direction.

[winsomme]

If Doc mixed in the bench with the starters more, I think you'd see the individual games of the players improve.  Look at the "player pairs" section of 82games.com.  Tony Allen and Leon Powe both play significantly better when they're on the floor with starters.  BBD's game even goes up a bit, even though he's been pretty consistently bad no matter who he's been playing with.

Doc needs to recognize all of this, and rely on his starters to boost his bench.  I know Doc wants to get the "big three" rest, but here's the problem with that logic:  it leads to losses.  If the season ended right now, to win a championship the team would have to win a home series against Miami, then road series against Orlando, Cleveland, and Los Angeles.  That doesn't bode well for the Celtics chances at a title.

Doc did start to play Ray and Paul with the bench....heck he did it last night in the second half.

sure the bench plays better with the starters, but the starters get burned out more and thus play less well when they are playing with each other.

there's just no way to mask the lack of scoring off the bench right now. it's a "peter to pay paul" situation...and making the starters less efficient together by tiring them out with the bench doesn't seem like a solution to me.

i think it's time to play Pruitt more (although playing him at the SG really makes us undersized) and get Walker and Giddens out there too....we need some new blood on the floor....

[housecall]

I think Doc definitely needs to make some adjustments.  I blame the current losing streak mostly on the players, and then on Danny Ainge for doing nothing to fortify the bench.  However, Doc certainly isn't getting the most out of his team.  They don't appear motivated, which generally falls on the coach's shoulders. 

Also, of course, is Doc's substitution pattern.  He *needs* to mix the starters in more with the bench.  You can't throw a lineup of House/TA/BBD/Powe/Ray out there and expect them to produce.  82games.com has done studies in the past that show that 1) Doc is one of the coaches who uses at least four bench guys at the same time the most, and 2) teams that play 4 or more bench players get outscored consistently during such times.  That should be obvious, and yet Doc is constantly putting terrible lineups on the floor to match up with a mix of the other team's starters.

If Doc mixed in the bench with the starters more, I think you'd see the individual games of the players improve.  Look at the "player pairs" section of 82games.com.  Tony Allen and Leon Powe both play significantly better when they're on the floor with starters.  BBD's game even goes up a bit, even though he's been pretty consistently bad no matter who he's been playing with.

People talk about Powe's game decreasing.  I think part of that is because he's generally paired next to BBD and three or four other bench players, which doesn't allow him to maximize his game.  Last season, Powe only played 264 minutes next to BBD all season.  This year, he's already played 336.  When the other guy you're playing beside on the front line is shooting sub-40%, it's bound to injure your game, and that's what's happening with Leon.

Doc needs to recognize all of this, and rely on his starters to boost his bench.  I know Doc wants to get the "big three" rest, but here's the problem with that logic:  it leads to losses.  If the season ended right now, to win a championship the team would have to win a home series against Miami, then road series against Orlando, Cleveland, and Los Angeles.  That doesn't bode well for the Celtics chances at a title.

tp..i agree with your post,especially D.Ainge not doing much to upgrade the bench and falling in love with players.He still says things like,Tony Allen still on his way back and will get much better.Recently he made a statement on weei that he picked BBD because he was a great college player,just needed a little work,could see him becoming one of the better players in the NBA in the future.Is he watching the same BBD we are watching?

[CoachBo]

At some point, folks, we need to move beyond the flawed notion that all the Celtics need to improve is more minutes for the kids.

Gabe Pruitt's manic game isn't going to help this club. He got some burn in the second quarter, contributed nothing and went to the bench where he belongs.

Lord knows, I know the love for Danny's draft picks trumps all on this board, but seriously, folks. Get your arms around the notion Roy advanced above: We don't have players that anyone wants. Danny's not a genius.

And barring a major move, this team isn't going to repeat. Period.

[greg_kite]

15 days ago, we were 27-2 and the defending world champions.  Now 15 days later, still the defending champs but it is time to fire Doc because he can't coach anymore?

To quote Tommy H,  "arrrgggghhhhh"

Hang in people.  I am not sure why this team is so manic or bipolar but that probably comes with the territory with a highly emotional guy like KG. I believe Doc will get them back on track.  Basketball is like golf, you can be in the groove or out of the groove and the worst thing to do with either is to over-react in either direction.

Thank you!  I would still take this over the 2006-07 season!

We were spoiled, got used to perfection and now are overreacting.  They will do their best to get an extra piece.  If not then they will still most likely right the ship.  Hopefully it's just a few nagging injuries that have slowed them down.  And it's not like they're losing to bums every game.  The only games they had no reason to lose were GS, NY, Charlotte and Indiana.  Houston, LA, Port, Cle, and Denver are all very good teams.

Losing four games you're supposed to win isn't really the end of the world.

Before drastically changing the defending champions give Danny a chance to tinker a little bit.

[Tr1boy]

I think Doc definitely needs to make some adjustments.  I blame the current losing streak mostly on the players, and then on Danny Ainge for doing nothing to fortify the bench.  However, Doc certainly isn't getting the most out of his team.  They don't appear motivated, which generally falls on the coach's shoulders. 

Also, of course, is Doc's substitution pattern.  He *needs* to mix the starters in more with the bench.  You can't throw a lineup of House/TA/BBD/Powe/Ray out there and expect them to produce.  82games.com has done studies in the past that show that 1) Doc is one of the coaches who uses at least four bench guys at the same time the most, and 2) teams that play 4 or more bench players get outscored consistently during such times.  That should be obvious, and yet Doc is constantly putting terrible lineups on the floor to match up with a mix of the other team's starters.

If Doc mixed in the bench with the starters more, I think you'd see the individual games of the players improve.  Look at the "player pairs" section of 82games.com.  Tony Allen and Leon Powe both play significantly better when they're on the floor with starters.  BBD's game even goes up a bit, even though he's been pretty consistently bad no matter who he's been playing with.

People talk about Powe's game decreasing.  I think part of that is because he's generally paired next to BBD and three or four other bench players, which doesn't allow him to maximize his game.  Last season, Powe only played 264 minutes next to BBD all season.  This year, he's already played 336.  When the other guy you're playing beside on the front line is shooting sub-40%, it's bound to injure your game, and that's what's happening with Leon.

Doc needs to recognize all of this, and rely on his starters to boost his bench.  I know Doc wants to get the "big three" rest, but here's the problem with that logic:  it leads to losses.  If the season ended right now, to win a championship the team would have to win a home series against Miami, then road series against Orlando, Cleveland, and Los Angeles.  That doesn't bode well for the Celtics chances at a title.

It is more of a modern day  way of playing though(mixing up everyone) and not really how rivers's team played back then.

You see when you mix up players the way you suggested the bench will definitely play better, however the side effects are that in theory more turnovers will be produced and it will be tough to try to get all the starters playing cohesively during the later part of the game(with the same amount of rest time).

But also rivers farmiliarity methodical ways are failing him right now , because the 2nd unit is not cuting it. The starters are tired out etc. and perk really shouldn't be playing in the 4th. (i really sort of feel that perk actually shouldn't even be a starter and would make a fine bench guy)

My main beef with rivers has to do with his substitution and trust factor of certain players. They are the gabe pruits, obryant even who play well with short time they have to work with but you never see them again after the half.

If i had to list who to blame right now i'd put 1. rivers 2. ainge 3. players

ainge and management was naive how much posey actually meant to them. Docs system though is old wouldn't suffer with a guy like posey and give the starters enough rest time.

And of course the players i'm suprised one of them hasn't got them out of this funk yet. A great speech, strategy etc.

Two things that could patch up the issue right now and help us be back to be a contender are 1. get a leader bench guy who is respected and used to winning 2. Get another coach

[winsomme]

At some point, folks, we need to move beyond the flawed notion that all the Celtics need to improve is more minutes for the kids.

Gabe Pruitt's manic game isn't going to help this club. He got some burn in the second quarter, contributed nothing and went to the bench where he belongs.

Lord knows, I know the love for Danny's draft picks trumps all on this board, but seriously, folks. Get your arms around the notion Roy advanced above: We don't have players that anyone wants. Danny's not a genius.

And barring a major move, this team isn't going to repeat. Period.

playing Pruitt, Giddens and Walker may not be the solution, but it is to me the next step that needs to happen. Other teams need to be able to see these guys play.

Giddens and Walker have highlight reel athleticism. we need to not only have that on our team, but showcase it in hopes of getting someone to bite on one of them...

and, heck, maybe one of them will surprise us and contribute to boosting the bench....

either way, it's the next step that needs to happen.

[Who]

You don't break up the Big Three unless you have a home run deal on the table.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth #20]

In the words of some of the greatest wordsmiths to grace this earth, "You Gots To Chill" - EPMD

[KungPoweChicken]

Would Jeff Van Gundy be interested?