Rondo the most productive Celtic?

[Big Ticket]

Apologize if this is a repost, didn't see it anywhere.

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/contending-on-new-years-day/

Wages of Wins has always loved Rondo.... even having an article last year titled "The Remarkable Rondo".

Well, so far this year, their Wins Produced formula has Rondo atop the Celtics.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Rondo will be the celtics best player next year and quite frankly is there best player this year 50% of the time, mostly at home though...if he got more minutes he would  average close to a triple double

[pearljammer10]

Rondos minutes go up and the Celts win no problem. If he is playing 40 minutes again like the above poster said, hello triple double ville... I like the decision to rest Rondo and let him be healthy for the playoffs, at the same time it kills me to see Eddie House in there in the 4th quarter of a close game until only 5 minutes are left (aka trailblazers game).

[2short]

We really do have a TEAM.  Everyone from perk up compliments each other very well (starters). 
Everyone should admit when rondo is playing great the C's are unbeatable .  He is a triple double threat every game with minutes. 

[LarBrd33]

i really don't care for +/- or any of that crap, because I think a lot of it depends on rotations and such.  I never totally understood how those stats can be accurate.  If Ray spends half his time playing with our terrible bench players and half his time playing with the starters... whereas Rondo spends 100% of his time playing with the starters... wouldn't Rondo's +/- be far higher than Ray?   Maybe I just don't get the stat and it goes over my head.

Anyways.  I always prefer just looking at statistical efficiency (I think PER is crap too).

This is pretty simple and supposedly was the method Larry Bird used to determine a player's production (which is why this is sometimes called "birdies").  Points + rebounds + assists + steals + blocks.  Subtract missed shots, missed free throws and turnovers.  Simple stuff. 

KG use to dominate the league in this formula.  He was consistently #1.   Now it's obviously dominated by LeBron every year.  CP, Wade and Dwight aren't far behind this year.   Simple method and it makes sense:  http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp

2009 Celtic Rankings
#19 = KG
#41 = Rondo
#46 = Pierce
#69 = Ray Allen
#92 = Perk
#202 = Powe

Just for the heck of it I checked last year...

2008 Celtic Rankings
#9 = KG
#36 = Pierce
#80 = Ray Allen
#98 = Rondo
#136 = Perk
#168 = Posey
#193 = Powe

No surprises.  KG and Pierce's production has dipped a little.  Ray's production is up.  Perk is up and Rondo is way up.   But KG still is statistically our best player by a big margin.


In case people were wondering... here was their rankings prior to joining each other.

2007 Rankings
#1 - KG
#23 - Ray Allen
#29 - Pierce
#176 - Rondo
#208 - Perk

Obviously the big 3 took statistical dives when they sacrificed personal stats for team success.   


And just for reference:
2007 Al Jefferson = #32
2008 Al Jefferson = #12
2009 Al Jefferson = #9

[LarBrd33]

Just cuz im having too much fun:

2005 Marbury = #18
2006 Marbury = #67
2007 Marbury = #83
2008 Marbury = #125
2009 Marbury = TBD

[Bankshot]

Rondo will be the celtics best player next year and quite frankly is there best player this year 50% of the time, mostly at home though...if he got more minutes he would  average close to a triple double

Sorry, not buying that Rondo will be better than 3 hall of famers next season.

[LarBrd33]

Rondo will be the celtics best player next year and quite frankly is there best player this year 50% of the time, mostly at home though...if he got more minutes he would  average close to a triple double

Sorry, not buying that Rondo will be better than 3 hall of famers next season.

Right.  That's like in 2007 when I said that Al Jefferson was definitely going to leapfrog Pierce in production the next year.   Obviously Jefferson did...  that doesn't mean Jefferson is "better" than Pierce.  He's just more statistically productive.

And unless KG has a major meltdown next year, I don't see Rondo being as statistically productive. 

I guess in theory that could happen if KG is averaging 14 points, 8 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block and 1 steal... and Rondo is averaged 12 points, 9 assist, 5 rebounds, 2.5 steals...

Basically a 1 point and 1 assist increase for Rondo.   And a 2.5 point, 1 rebound decrease for KG (with his steals, blocks and assists taking small dips).   That could happen if Rondo continues to get better and Doc decides to limit KG's minutes even further.  It wouldn't mean that Rondo was a better player though.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Rondo will be the celtics best player next year and quite frankly is there best player this year 50% of the time, mostly at home though...if he got more minutes he would  average close to a triple double

Sorry, not buying that Rondo will be better than 3 hall of famers next season.

Well, it doesnt really matter whether or not there hall of fame or not, none of them are in there primes right now, and Ray and KG will be significantly declining next year IMO...Its just of my observation that he's our best player in almost every home game already

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Rondo will be the celtics best player next year and quite frankly is there best player this year 50% of the time, mostly at home though...if he got more minutes he would  average close to a triple double

Sorry, not buying that Rondo will be better than 3 hall of famers next season.

Right.  That's like in 2007 when I said that Al Jefferson was definitely going to leapfrog Pierce in production the next year.   Obviously Jefferson did...  that doesn't mean Jefferson is "better" than Pierce.  He's just more statistically productive.

And unless KG has a major meltdown next year, I don't see Rondo being as statistically productive. 

Well, KG's statistical production is already dropping from last year - 16/8/2 isnt exactly KG in his prime, if it drops even slightly lower than that, its not a longshot that rondo will indeed be more statistically productive next season
Assuming his numbers this year stay the same and we see another dropoff similar to this year from last years...next seasons numbers look something like 14/7/1 for KG...and people should obviously realize he isnt getting younger or any better anytime soon

[cordobes]

This isn't surprising. Berri's metric is highly appreciative of players like Rondo. It's like Rajon was designed to perform well in terms of WPs: he's a great rebounds for a pg, he only takes highly efficient shots because he doesn't have a jumper, he gets tons of steals due to his defensive aggressivness, his A/To ratio is solid, he's not a high usage player.

Remember, according to this same metric, Rodman was the better player (or the most productive one) in Jordan Bulls. Low scoring, good rebounding players always do well with Berri.

[xmuscularghandix]

Rondo will be the celtics best player next year and quite frankly is there best player this year 50% of the time, mostly at home though...if he got more minutes he would  average close to a triple double

Sorry, not buying that Rondo will be better than 3 hall of famers next season.

i do, becuase as every one of them dip in productivity and minutes becuase of age, Rondo will grow into a triple double machine. Rondo is adding shots to his arsenal to make him a more efficiant scorer, and if pierce and kg arent on the floor with him he'll be a MAIN scoring option. i have no doubt that rondo's stats for 09/10 could bump up to  15 pts, 9 ast, 5 reb. (not increasing his rebound numbers becuase i'm hoping on Perk devoping into 10,10 on a nightly basis. and if JR/Billy get any playing time they're rebound machines.)